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Dave:
There is no man but Jesus who could be trusted, the rest must all be controlled by the people they serve... Ideas, logic, principals, methods etc. must be judged on their merit alone, and not who presents them. A bad idea presented by bush, congress or courts is still a bad idea. A good idea presented by a wino looses no value... John On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 17:16:31 +0000, Dave Heil wrote: John Smith wrote: Dave: Lost with no character/personality to attack, confused? Focus on what is at discussion, forget who is saying it, may help. John "John", sounds like the way MoveOn.org works. Are you affiliated? Should we ignore the veracity of any commenter too? Dave K8MN On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 16:20:24 +0000, Dave Heil wrote: John Smith wrote: Len: Thanks for the background info... I have already written dave off as just another "yes man" to the status quo... he is a heckler here and his chief method of operation is character assassinations... Oh, damn! His *two* methods here are character assassinations on those with little character and countering their ridiculous assertions. No, his *three* methods here are... Noooobody expects the Spanish Inquisition! Dave K8MN |
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:58:36 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote: Here, we "know" that in emergencies that we will use cell phones and the Internet, and all will be well. Hmmm, long distance phone service was greatly reduced and no cell phones were available in east central Alberta for a day. After the main fiber line to Edmonton was severed. This affected some 100K residents of the area. Tony |
Here, we "know" that in emergencies that we will use cell phones and the Internet, and all will be well. Hmmm, long distance phone service was greatly reduced and no cell phones were available in east central Alberta for a day. After the main fiber line to Edmonton was severed. This affected some 100K residents of the area. One cannot predict what services will be dead in a regional emergency. Any system that relies on lots of infrastructure is more likely to be impaired. Ham radio, aside from radios, antennas and portable or mobile power source (say car battery) usually survives in enough numbers to be useful. |
Tony VE6MVP wrote:
On Sun, 07 Aug 2005 20:58:36 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote: Here, we "know" that in emergencies that we will use cell phones and the Internet, and all will be well. Hmmm, long distance phone service was greatly reduced and no cell phones were available in east central Alberta for a day. After the main fiber line to Edmonton was severed. This affected some 100K residents of the area. Hi Tony, You're proving my point. IOW, lots of people "know" things that aren't true. In large scale emergencies, cell phones are usually just ballast. Should I have put a sarcasm alert on that post? 8^) - Mike KB3EIA - |
Mike Coslo" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an old friend" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: That is my point Mike. Just because it is old....does not make it useless. I believe in the KISS method. And CW, in emergencies, is the easiest and simplest thing to get running. No modems, no regulated power supplies, no computers. Just the basic stuff. I was asked once by my Battalion commander while in the field in Germany. ( I was talking to the Feldburg 2m ham repeater while standing on top of the Command track). He asked how I could communicate with Frankfurt, and all of his radios could not......I said...."Well Sir, it takes two things to communicate.....an operator on both ends" He ordered me to take my H/T every time we went to the field from then on. Tsk, tsk, highly UNlikely story for the 1972 times. You'll have to be more clear on that location. "Feldburg" could be 'Feldberg' or even 'Frieberg' or 'Freiberg.' Was that in Bavaria or elsewhere? In 1980s, Feldberg-Schwarzwald was a troposcatter station from the north-central part of West Germany with relay to Italy; before that it was part of the LOS microwave multi-channel relay system. Frankfurt was, may still be, USAEUR-Germany Hq and would be roughly 150 miles north of Feldberg-Schwarzwald (I don't have a good map of the FRG at the moment). Bavaria borders Austria and Switzerland as well as part of East Germany; in 1972 the German unification was still distant in time. It is HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that there would be: 1. Ham HTs good enough or inexpensive enough for a GI to get (even with NCO and overseas pay) in 1972; 2. Permission to USE one IN THE FIELD, certainly on a "command track" (field Hq vehicle) that close to unfriendly territory. "Command tracks" (field Hq-Commo vehicles), presumably the kind with all tracks and not wheels, but the name applies to the fitted Bradleys of the 80s and 90s...all had lots of radios...and antennas, that making them easier for "other-side" recon units to spot. In 1972 the radios normally in such field Hq-Commo vehicles could hack up to 300 miles on NVIS cloud-burner bounce; the technique was already known then (Rommel's Afrika Corps knew about it in 1942 and that is documented). I can't believe an armor unit has been rendered as radio-SILENT as you say, not even with 1972-era radios in the U.S. Army. Sorry, but use of REPEATER techniques, particularly UN- manned repeaters, was pioneered by the U.S. Army in Italy in late 1943, then used in France and Germany 1944-1945, starting with the SCR-300, the VHF FM Voice manpack called the "Walkie-Talkie." There's a specific repeater connector on the front panel of every BC-1000 ever made just for that purpose...designed-in by Signal Corps request when the contract was signed with Motorola. With REPEATERS, those can very easily operate WOTHOUT operators "operating" things (taking any active part in the repeating process of the radios). Repeaters are DESIGNED to operate unattended. 1972 was THIRTY THREE years ago. By all appearances you've done considerable "editing" of the ACTUAL FACTS surrounding your field commo adventure. MANUFACTURING the story is more likely. nah non |
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Mon, Aug 15 2005 4:53 pm
Lennie, Scroll down dipweed. Now, now, you are NOT Playing Well With Others, lil Dannie. :-) wrote in message Mike Coslo" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an old friend" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: That is my point Mike. Just because it is old....does not make it useless. I believe in the KISS method. And CW, in emergencies, is the easiest and simplest thing to get running. No modems, no regulated power supplies, no computers. Just the basic stuff. I was asked once by my Battalion commander while in the field in Germany. ( I was talking to the Feldburg 2m ham repeater while standing on top of the Command track). He asked how I could communicate with Frankfurt, and all of his radios could not......I said...."Well Sir, it takes two things to communicate.....an operator on both ends" He ordered me to take my H/T every time we went to the field from then on. Tsk, tsk, highly UNlikely story for the 1972 times. Unlikely you say? How is that ? Playing with ham radios while on field maneauvers of a U.S. Army armor unit? For "Army business?" HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!! Because YOU didn't see it. Because YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT AMATEUR RADIO other than what you conjure up in your distorted mind? Take a trank, Dannie Disabled, settle down. I realize that YOU think ham radio is super-secret stuff which can't be revealed to the outside world, but that is NOT so. But, you are totally confusing ARMY communications with your ham hobby activies and that is NOT good for the U.S. Army. You'll have to be more clear on that location. "Feldburg" could be 'Feldberg' or even 'Frieberg' or 'Freiberg.' Was that in Bavaria or elsewhere? The Feldburg Amateur Radio Repeater, located in the Frankfurt area. Our normal field site was towards the Fulda Gap area. To your credit you got a bit closer geographically. Just try to remember that not ALL who read in here have traveled in Germany. The "berg" in a German location name is generally referring to a a mountain (or large hill) while the "burg" in a German location name denotes a town or city (e.g., "Hamburg"). In 1980s, Feldberg-Schwarzwald was a troposcatter station from the north-central part of West Germany with relay to Italy; before that it was part of the LOS microwave multi-channel relay system. This is the place, I remember the microwave site up there in the 70s. Great place to play with my two meter Handi. With absolute freedom of hobby enjoyment from your battalion's signal officer, no doubt...no interference checking or even M.I. checking to see if you were communicating something you shouldn't have to the "other side?" I could care less about the 1980s in Germany. You know full well I was discussing the 70s time frame. Tsk, I wasn't shifting time (Miccolis does that). There has been considerable Signal activity in Germany ever since the Occupation and I've seen several eras' plans of USAEUR communications from 1945 on through Ace High to the reunification of Germany. Frankfurt was, may still be, USAEUR-Germany Hq and would be roughly 150 miles north of Feldberg-Schwarzwald (I don't have a good map of the FRG at the moment). Bavaria borders Austria and Switzerland as well as part of East Germany; in 1972 the German unification was still distant in time. It is HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that there would be: 1. Ham HTs good enough or inexpensive enough for a GI to get (even with NCO and overseas pay) in 1972; A Handi Talky made by Standard Communications was available, its nomenclature was SRC-146A. That must have been its CIVILIAN model designation. The "SCR" nomenclature ceased about 1945 along with the "BC" specific item nomenclature. No doubt you will say "the Army bought it for you?" :-) The German repeaters ALL operated with a "whistle up" tone access. Just whistle it up and start to talk. Of course a Amateur Radio license was required. And a German call. Mine was DA2LJ. Did you communicate Army information over a German CIVILIAN amateur radio repeater? [M.I. wants to know...] on a "command track" (field Hq vehicle) that close to unfriendly territory. Not a problem at all. I showed my CO the German License, my US License, and my MARS license. And after he seen it in action, he told me to KEEP bringing it. Right...and your "CO" never checked up on that, ever? ASA didn't check up on you? [ASA was still in existance in 1972] Being close to "unfriendly territory" was not a problem at all. You NOT BEING a ham of course, would not comprehend these things. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I was NEVER in Bavaria in the 1970s. But, I was IN the U.S. Army in the 1950s and as a civilian engineer working for civilian contractors engaged in Department of Defense contract work from the late 1950s on through to 1989. Dannie Disabled, I've had a bit MORE investigation by the U.S. government on SECURITY matters (including background checks for Top Secret and "Q") for the simple reason that I've been around longer than you have. Don't try this Tuff Guy bull**** with me. "Command tracks" (field Hq-Commo vehicles), presumably the kind with all tracks and not wheels, but the name applies I forget the nomenclature of the "Command Track" but it was basically a double decker M-113 carrier. It was big enough for lots of radios and several troops. Being the ranking NCO I was also the track commander. Giving me the "pleasure" to ride with my helmeted and usually masked head out of the hatch to guide the driver. Wow, real Tuff Guy stuff. I'll bet you tell some dandy "field action stories" down at the Legion hall. There it is guys, Lennie showing not his ignorance, but his stupidity. He sits there in front of his keys and decides everything based on incorrect assessments. What a world class dumbass. Score another "doesn't play well with others" on Dannie Disabled's record jacket. Do you remember the Vietnam War Lennie? The US Army in Europe was at the bottom of the list on new goodies. You can figure that out, right? Now let me address your ignorance further; I remember ALL the wars the United States had since 1941. I was alive all that time. After 1960 my military service obligation was over when I received my Honorable Discharge from the United States Army. Good and bad...my employer could now send me on field engineer assignments, unworried that I would be suddenly mobilized. USAEUR was assigned blocks of frequencies by the German government. Some not in the best spots. A local commo officer then determined which ones to use at what time and on what day/night. Normally these comm officers had no knowledge of things like "skip", NVIS, or groundwave. Not to mention broadcast QRM (Short Wave). So it was a shot in the dark if any frequency chosen would actually work for the distance, time, day/night that it was to be used. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You should have reported all that to your Armor unit CO and had that investigated!!! [but, with your ham licenses, you "knew more" than any damn commissioned ossifers did, dint ya?] For some reason the comsec officers liked to put us in the 2 Mhz range at night, and the 7 as an alternate. 2 would work, but for the way to short whips. And no we never bother to deploy the GRA-50s.....you DO know what they are don't you? I can look them up. :-) NOT being IN the Army in the '70s, I didn't know one HAD TO KNOW EVERYTHING and keep it in mind forever! :-) The 7mhz was eat up with broadcast QRM, so forget it. And the 2 never got out of the woods. You claim that "all you had" was leftovers for equipment in the 1970s. Tsk, tsk, "leftovers" from the 1960s...BEFORE the U.S. FULL involvement in Vietnam were THERE, even in the USAEUR [military speak for U.S. Army, EURope, for you civilian readers]. You did "NOT" have the "three-band system" on high-HF, low-VHF for overlapping commo bandspace for Armor, Artillery, Infantry? I'm surprised. That went into effect in the mid-1950s and hung around for over a decade, especially in vehicular comms of all units. The reality of it was this; Using 100 watts output on RTTY (RATT in Army Speak) into a 15' metal whip and sitting in the GAP you were damn lucky to make commo with your units, especially at night. Sometimes you got lucky. Not like today I am sure. "Today" is NOT 33 years ago, Dannie Disabled. The most reliable commo was usually on the 40 mhz range FM VRC-12 units. Range was extended by deploying "radio relay teams" to hilltops to act as a manual repeater. Dannie boy, VHF FM was the STANDARD communications radio type during WW2 in Yurp for vehicles of all kinds and learned well by the Army so as to continue using it. RATT Short Wave Commo was spotty to say the least. In YOUR unit, apparently. :-) Was YOUR unit so 'special that you "needed" comms direct with SHAEF Hq? :-) "Short Wave Commo" was a STANDARD operation 24/7 for the Army (and all other branches) Defense Communications System. The Army part was called "Starcom" before that, and "ACAN" before that. Yes, and I'm familiar with other branches, even the USAF "Aircomnet" and other alphabet soup. The TTY message relay center designators didn't change not even into the 70s, not the ones at Primasens (RUFP), Kaiserslautern (RUFN), Seckenheim (RUFW), Vainingen (RUFO), Bonn (RUFK), or at Frankfurt (RUFY). The DCS went all around the world, established so during WW2 and continuing on until the 80s. Pirmasens (RUFP) would monthly go through Asmara, Eirtrea (RUQP) to Manila (RUMP) (hi, hi) and then to Tokyo (RUAP). I thought it most interesting to see the TTY test traffic when that was done...had a hometown friend at RUFN but we could NOT use the circuits for personal communications. Must have been lots different in the Army that followed my time, what with shack-onna-belt in a shack-onna-track for fun and games in the field. Believe it or not...I was there...you were NOT. Ooooooo! More Tuff Tawk! Tsk, Dannie, I was IN ACAN...but at a big communications station, not sitting in some tracked vehicle playing sojer in da woods. I was NOT IN Bavaria but love their cream pies, am indifferent to cuckcoo clocks but find lots of cuckoos in here. :-) Did you think Tokyo, Japan, was some kind of rear-area FAR from any live-fire conflict? Jimmie Noserve thinks so. Stebie da wundermurine thinks so. Tsk, tsk, I was IN big-time HF communications that was running 24/7 comms on Army business, not playing with any shack-onna-belt HTs in any shack-onna-track. HF, Dannie Disabled, we only used VHF and UHF and microwaves for radio relay. Sorry, but use of REPEATER techniques, particularly UN- manned repeaters, was pioneered by the U.S. Army in Italy in late 1943, then used in France and Germany 1944-1945, starting with the SCR-300, the VHF FM Voice manpack called the "Walkie-Talkie." There's a specific repeater connector on the front panel of every BC-1000 ever made just for that purpose...designed-in by Signal Corps request when the contract was signed with Motorola. With REPEATERS, those can very easily operate WOTHOUT operators "operating" things (taking any active part in the repeating process of the radios). Repeaters are DESIGNED to operate unattended. None of which was available to any of the ARMY units I was with in Germany. As if. :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk...the "three-band Armor-Artillery- Infantry" radios were being issued in 1954 through 1958. The grunt versions were the AN/PRC-8, -9, -10s and there were VRCs and GRCs that fit the same bands. The little PRC-6 was ready and used during the active Korean War ('50 to '53) but... SOMEHOW...it "NEVER" got to the USAEUR by 1970?!? Incredible. You should have notified your congresscritter immediately! DEMAND and INVESTIGATION!!! All the "PRCs" I mentioned had peripheral kits designed just FOR unattended REPEATER operation! Amazing but true! Was in their TMs and everything. For most of the "VRCs" and "GRCs" the same. Just put them in place and leave 'em until the batteries run down or the generator fuel runs out or "man" them as local commanders say. And what you said has NOTHING to do with what I said. AMATEUR RADIO REPEATER OF FELDBURG. At least TRY to stay on topic Loser. Riiiiight, tuff guy, AMATEUR RADIO used to direct Army Armor units in the field? Suuuuure. :-) They were as follows; 23rd Engineer Battalion, Hanau FRG (Federal Republic of Germany) 1st Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalery Regiment, Fulda, FRG. 143rd Signal Battalion, Frankfurt, FRG. FRG you, Dannie. Do we all have to LOOK THOSE UNITS UP in something, Dannie? If we have to do that, why not give us a hint of the U.S. Army DIRECTIVES that explain the use of AMATEUR Radio Repeater procedures for Armor-Artillery-Infantry units in the field of the 1970s? 1972 was THIRTY THREE years ago. By all appearances you've done considerable "editing" of the ACTUAL FACTS surrounding your field commo adventure. MANUFACTURING the story is more likely. And it is obvious to anyone that bothers to check what I say that you are the liar and not I. Look in any calendar or gazeteer of astro-navigation data, 1972 WAS THIRTY THREE YEARS AGO!!! No "lie," Danny Disabled. :-) Let's see...1972 to 1973 is one year...1972 to 1974 is two years, 1972 to 1975 is three years, 1972 to 1976 is four years, 1972 to 1977 is five years, switch hands, 1972 to 1978 is six years, 1972 to 1979 is seven years, 1972 to 1980 is eight years, 1972 to 1981 is nine years, 1972 to 1982 is ten years. Well, you get the picture, right? I didn't want to embarrass you by making you count on your toes for a "twenty." You would have to borrow someone else's hands and feet for the 13 more... toe now |
Responding once again the IGNORANCE of Lennie the loser........
wrote in message ups.com... From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Mon, Aug 15 2005 4:53 pm Lennie, Scroll down dipweed. Now, now, you are NOT Playing Well With Others, lil Dannie. :-) wrote in message Mike Coslo" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an old friend" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: That is my point Mike. Just because it is old....does not make it useless. I believe in the KISS method. And CW, in emergencies, is the easiest and simplest thing to get running. No modems, no regulated power supplies, no computers. Just the basic stuff. I was asked once by my Battalion commander while in the field in Germany. ( I was talking to the Feldburg 2m ham repeater while standing on top of the Command track). He asked how I could communicate with Frankfurt, and all of his radios could not......I said...."Well Sir, it takes two things to communicate.....an operator on both ends" He ordered me to take my H/T every time we went to the field from then on. Tsk, tsk, highly UNlikely story for the 1972 times. Unlikely you say? How is that ? Playing with ham radios while on field maneauvers of a U.S. Army armor unit? For "Army business?" HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!! The Commanding Officer at that time didn't have a problem with it. In fact he enjoyed watching me break out the leg key and work some ham stations all around the world. This during the times when we had NO HF COMMO, which as I stated before was quite regular. I used the GRC-106A setup in the Command Track. He liked it so much he eventually got his own license. Because YOU didn't see it. Because YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT AMATEUR RADIO other than what you conjure up in your distorted mind? Take a trank, Dannie Disabled, settle down. I realize that YOU think ham radio is super-secret stuff which can't be revealed to the outside world, but that is NOT so. But, you are totally confusing ARMY communications with your ham hobby activies and that is NOT good for the U.S. Army. I think you are in need of the "trank" Lennie, I have NEVER said, or thought, that Ham radio is "super-secret" stuff. I have no idea where that comes from. You'll have to be more clear on that location. "Feldburg" could be 'Feldberg' or even 'Frieberg' or 'Freiberg.' Was that in Bavaria or elsewhere? The Feldburg Amateur Radio Repeater, located in the Frankfurt area. Our normal field site was towards the Fulda Gap area. To your credit you got a bit closer geographically. Just try to remember that not ALL who read in here have traveled in Germany. The "berg" in a German location name is generally referring to a a mountain (or large hill) while the "burg" in a German location name denotes a town or city (e.g., "Hamburg"). In 1980s, Feldberg-Schwarzwald was a troposcatter station from the north-central part of West Germany with relay to Italy; before that it was part of the LOS microwave multi-channel relay system. This is the place, I remember the microwave site up there in the 70s. Great place to play with my two meter Handi. With absolute freedom of hobby enjoyment from your battalion's signal officer, no doubt...no interference checking or even M.I. checking to see if you were communicating something you shouldn't have to the "other side?" The Battalion Commander had nothing to do with my trip up the mountain. I went with a bunch of German and American Hams. Of course our ID's were checked. And NONE of us were allowed access to the actual microwave site. But that was not our plan. We had in mind to operate on VHF from there. Which we did with great success. I could care less about the 1980s in Germany. You know full well I was discussing the 70s time frame. Tsk, I wasn't shifting time (Miccolis does that). There has been considerable Signal activity in Germany ever since the Occupation and I've seen several eras' plans of USAEUR communications from 1945 on through Ace High to the reunification of Germany. Frankfurt was, may still be, USAEUR-Germany Hq and would be roughly 150 miles north of Feldberg-Schwarzwald (I don't have a good map of the FRG at the moment). Bavaria borders Austria and Switzerland as well as part of East Germany; in 1972 the German unification was still distant in time. It is HIGHLY DOUBTFUL that there would be: 1. Ham HTs good enough or inexpensive enough for a GI to get (even with NCO and overseas pay) in 1972; A Handi Talky made by Standard Communications was available, its nomenclature was SRC-146A. That must have been its CIVILIAN model designation. The "SCR" nomenclature ceased about 1945 along with the "BC" specific item nomenclature. No doubt you will say "the Army bought it for you?" :-) Of course it was a CIVILIAN model designation. I never said it was a military radio. As usual, you just assumed. You do that a lot Lennie. The German repeaters ALL operated with a "whistle up" tone access. Just whistle it up and start to talk. Of course a Amateur Radio license was required. And a German call. Mine was DA2LJ. Did you communicate Army information over a German CIVILIAN amateur radio repeater? [M.I. wants to know...] There you are showing your IGNORANCE AGAIN LENNIE. Why would I communicate Military information on a Amateur Radio frequency. on a "command track" (field Hq vehicle) that close to unfriendly territory. Not a problem at all. I showed my CO the German License, my US License, and my MARS license. And after he seen it in action, he told me to KEEP bringing it. Right...and your "CO" never checked up on that, ever? ASA didn't check up on you? [ASA was still in existance in 1972] No reason to Lennie. I was perfectly legal by both German and US Military rules and regulations. Being close to "unfriendly territory" was not a problem at all. You NOT BEING a ham of course, would not comprehend these things. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I was NEVER in Bavaria in the 1970s. But, I was IN the U.S. Army in the 1950s and as a civilian engineer working for civilian contractors engaged in Department of Defense contract work from the late 1950s on through to 1989. Dannie Disabled, I've had a bit MORE investigation by the U.S. government on SECURITY matters (including background checks for Top Secret and "Q") for the simple reason that I've been around longer than you have. Don't try this Tuff Guy bull**** with me. Starting to get defensive eh Loser? "Command tracks" (field Hq-Commo vehicles), presumably the kind with all tracks and not wheels, but the name applies I forget the nomenclature of the "Command Track" but it was basically a double decker M-113 carrier. It was big enough for lots of radios and several troops. Being the ranking NCO I was also the track commander. Giving me the "pleasure" to ride with my helmeted and usually masked head out of the hatch to guide the driver. Wow, real Tuff Guy stuff. I'll bet you tell some dandy "field action stories" down at the Legion hall. Well I guess from your point of view, a commando of the commo room, you would think that was a war story. We call your type a REMF. There it is guys, Lennie showing not his ignorance, but his stupidity. He sits there in front of his keys and decides everything based on incorrect assessments. What a world class dumbass. Score another "doesn't play well with others" on Dannie Disabled's record jacket. Do you remember the Vietnam War Lennie? The US Army in Europe was at the bottom of the list on new goodies. You can figure that out, right? Now let me address your ignorance further; I remember ALL the wars the United States had since 1941. I was alive all that time. After 1960 my military service obligation was over when I received my Honorable Discharge from the United States Army. Good and bad...my employer could now send me on field engineer assignments, unworried that I would be suddenly mobilized. USAEUR was assigned blocks of frequencies by the German government. Some not in the best spots. A local commo officer then determined which ones to use at what time and on what day/night. Normally these comm officers had no knowledge of things like "skip", NVIS, or groundwave. Not to mention broadcast QRM (Short Wave). So it was a shot in the dark if any frequency chosen would actually work for the distance, time, day/night that it was to be used. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You should have reported all that to your Armor unit CO and had that investigated!!! [but, with your ham licenses, you "knew more" than any damn commissioned ossifers did, dint ya?] Not even you believe you said that. For some reason the comsec officers liked to put us in the 2 Mhz range at night, and the 7 as an alternate. 2 would work, but for the way to short whips. And no we never bother to deploy the GRA-50s.....you DO know what they are don't you? I can look them up. :-) NOT being IN the Army in the '70s, I didn't know one HAD TO KNOW EVERYTHING and keep it in mind forever! :-) Oh really? Sure isn't the impression you leave in here about yourself. The 7mhz was eat up with broadcast QRM, so forget it. And the 2 never got out of the woods. You claim that "all you had" was leftovers for equipment in the 1970s. Tsk, tsk, "leftovers" from the 1960s...BEFORE the U.S. FULL involvement in Vietnam were THERE, even in the USAEUR [military speak for U.S. Army, EURope, for you civilian readers]. You did "NOT" have the "three-band system" on high-HF, low-VHF for overlapping commo bandspace for Armor, Artillery, Infantry? I'm surprised. That went into effect in the mid-1950s and hung around for over a decade, especially in vehicular comms of all units. We were field units Lennie. We didn't have air conditioned vans and sit in parking lots in Heilderburg. All we had available was HF SSB/AM/CW/RATT, VHF FM Low Band. The reality of it was this; Using 100 watts output on RTTY (RATT in Army Speak) into a 15' metal whip and sitting in the GAP you were damn lucky to make commo with your units, especially at night. Sometimes you got lucky. Not like today I am sure. "Today" is NOT 33 years ago, Dannie Disabled. No kidding, again you can't seem to follow along Lennie. We are talking about the ARMY in the 70s and your total ignorance of commo systems in use and everything about Ham Radio. Next. The most reliable commo was usually on the 40 mhz range FM VRC-12 units. Range was extended by deploying "radio relay teams" to hilltops to act as a manual repeater. Dannie boy, VHF FM was the STANDARD communications radio type during WW2 in Yurp for vehicles of all kinds and learned well by the Army so as to continue using it. So? And guess what, its still in use. RATT Short Wave Commo was spotty to say the least. In YOUR unit, apparently. :-) Was YOUR unit so 'special that you "needed" comms direct with SHAEF Hq? :-) Had no need whatsoever to communicate with Belgium. We were a field unit. We just followed instructions and did the job. "Short Wave Commo" was a STANDARD operation 24/7 for the Army (and all other branches) Defense Communications System. The Army part was called "Starcom" before that, and "ACAN" before that. Yes, and I'm familiar with other branches, even the USAF "Aircomnet" and other alphabet soup. The TTY message relay center designators didn't change not even into the 70s, not the ones at Primasens (RUFP), Kaiserslautern (RUFN), Seckenheim (RUFW), Vainingen (RUFO), Bonn (RUFK), or at Frankfurt (RUFY). The DCS went all around the world, established so during WW2 and continuing on until the 80s. Pirmasens (RUFP) would monthly go through Asmara, Eirtrea (RUQP) to Manila (RUMP) (hi, hi) and then to Tokyo (RUAP). I thought it most interesting to see the TTY test traffic when that was done...had a hometown friend at RUFN but we could NOT use the circuits for personal communications. Must have been lots different in the Army that followed my time, what with shack-onna-belt in a shack-onna-track for fun and games in the field. Believe it or not...I was there...you were NOT. Ooooooo! More Tuff Tawk! Tsk, Dannie, I was IN ACAN...but at a big communications station, not sitting in some tracked vehicle playing sojer in da woods. I was NOT IN Bavaria but love their cream pies, am indifferent to cuckcoo clocks but find lots of cuckoos in here. :-) In other words you don't know a damn thing about what I am talking about. Why don't you just shut up and stick with what you know and quite trying to act like some know it all Lennie? Your not impressing a dang soul. Least of all not me. I could care less about Tokyo, etc. WE are TALKING about GERMANY in the 70s. Did you think Tokyo, Japan, was some kind of rear-area FAR from any live-fire conflict? Jimmie Noserve thinks so. Stebie da wundermurine thinks so. Tsk, tsk, I was IN big-time HF communications that was running 24/7 comms on Army business, not playing with any shack-onna-belt HTs in any shack-onna-track. HF, Dannie Disabled, we only used VHF and UHF and microwaves for radio relay. Sorry, but use of REPEATER techniques, particularly UN- manned repeaters, was pioneered by the U.S. Army in Italy in late 1943, then used in France and Germany 1944-1945, starting with the SCR-300, the VHF FM Voice manpack called the "Walkie-Talkie." There's a specific repeater connector on the front panel of every BC-1000 ever made just for that purpose...designed-in by Signal Corps request when the contract was signed with Motorola. With REPEATERS, those can very easily operate WOTHOUT operators "operating" things (taking any active part in the repeating process of the radios). Repeaters are DESIGNED to operate unattended. None of which was available to any of the ARMY units I was with in Germany. As if. :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk...the "three-band Armor-Artillery- Infantry" radios were being issued in 1954 through 1958. The grunt versions were the AN/PRC-8, -9, -10s and there were VRCs and GRCs that fit the same bands. The little PRC-6 was ready and used during the active Korean War ('50 to '53) but... SOMEHOW...it "NEVER" got to the USAEUR by 1970?!? Incredible. You should have notified your congresscritter immediately! DEMAND and INVESTIGATION!!! All the "PRCs" I mentioned had peripheral kits designed just FOR unattended REPEATER operation! Amazing but true! Was in their TMs and everything. For most of the "VRCs" and "GRCs" the same. Just put them in place and leave 'em until the batteries run down or the generator fuel runs out or "man" them as local commanders say. And what you said has NOTHING to do with what I said. AMATEUR RADIO REPEATER OF FELDBURG. At least TRY to stay on topic Loser. Riiiiight, tuff guy, AMATEUR RADIO used to direct Army Armor units in the field? Suuuuure. :-) Where do you get this crap from Lennie? Have you had the screw tightned on your head yet ? They were as follows; 23rd Engineer Battalion, Hanau FRG (Federal Republic of Germany) 1st Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalery Regiment, Fulda, FRG. 143rd Signal Battalion, Frankfurt, FRG. FRG you, Dannie. Do we all have to LOOK THOSE UNITS UP in something, Dannie? If we have to do that, why not give us a hint of the U.S. Army DIRECTIVES that explain the use of AMATEUR Radio Repeater procedures for Armor-Artillery-Infantry units in the field of the 1970s? There is NO SUCH THING MORON. Tighten that screw a bit more, you need it. 1972 was THIRTY THREE years ago. By all appearances you've done considerable "editing" of the ACTUAL FACTS surrounding your field commo adventure. MANUFACTURING the story is more likely. And it is obvious to anyone that bothers to check what I say that you are the liar and not I. plonk I would like to apologize to all those, except Lennie, reading this tripe. I am obviously dealing with someone (Len Anderson) that is not quite right in the head, and possible mentally ill. His ability to reason is suspect also. I see no reason in continuing this debate with someone that is so incumbered by his lack of knowledge and common sense. Dan/W4NTI |
From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Tues 16 Aug 2005 20:55
Responding once again the IGNORANCE of Lennie the loser........ Tsk, sill not playing well with others, lil Dannie... wrote in message From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Mon, Aug 15 2005 4:53 pm Lennie, Scroll down dipweed. Now, now, you are NOT Playing Well With Others, lil Dannie. :-) Poor Dannie Disabled, has to insult everyone disagreeing with him. Tsk, tsk. wrote in message Mike Coslo" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: "an old friend" wrote in message Dan/W4NTI wrote: Playing with ham radios while on field maneauvers of a U.S. Army armor unit? For "Army business?" HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!! The Commanding Officer at that time didn't have a problem with it. In fact he enjoyed watching me break out the leg key and work some ham stations all around the world. This during the times when we had NO HF COMMO, which as I stated before was quite regular. I used the GRC-106A setup in the Command Track. He liked it so much he eventually got his own license. Well, anyone IN the military has to obey their superior officers or face disciplinary action...at worst being in a courts martial under the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice...applies to ALL branches). If your CO said it was okay, then you had to accept that. There is NOTHING specific in the UCMJ or ARs or SRs (Army Regulations, Special Regulations) that covers "amateur radio ops" while on duty in an armor unit field exercise. However, there's a heap of very pertinent ARs and SRs, plus directives, plus COMSEC specific directives (COMSEC = COMmunications SECurity, a generic term that came in later than 1972 but existed under other names before then) that say one has to do Army business on Army time and communications ABOUT Army business over unsecure civilian, especially foreign, communications facilities can be taken as a violation (see Treasonous acts under UCMJ) of national security. But, something ELSE operative here. Note: Your CO gave you permission to operate. On another thread in here, some time ago, Brian Burke was given permission by HIS CO to operate amateur radio from a foreign land. Now all the JAG-wannabes in here (PCTAs all) jumped all over Brian's case on that, citing absolutely NOTHING germane, one (a "seven-hostile-action" hero) even implying that the UCMJ didn't apply, only the FCC regulations applied (they don't but the shell-shocked murine didn't understand that). Under the terms of the Kangaroo Kourt of the PCTAs: If Brian Burke is guilty of improper amateur radio operation, then Dan Jeswald is EQUALLY GUILTY of doing so from Germany. If Dan Jeswald is not guilty, then Brian Burke is not guilty. It's the SAME SORT of "OFFENSE" as codified by the PCTA. Because YOU didn't see it. Because YOU have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT AMATEUR RADIO other than what you conjure up in your distorted mind? Take a trank, Dannie Disabled, settle down. I realize that YOU think ham radio is super-secret stuff which can't be revealed to the outside world, but that is NOT so. But, you are totally confusing ARMY communications with your ham hobby activies and that is NOT good for the U.S. Army. I think you are in need of the "trank" Lennie, I have NEVER said, or thought, that Ham radio is "super-secret" stuff. I have no idea where that comes from. It comes from YOU, Dannie. That first quote above (marked with three right-arrows). You say that I "have no knowledge about amateur radio other than what I conjure up in my distorted mind." Amateur radio knowledge, practice, communications are all very, very PUBLIC knowledge. Magazines and books about it exist all over the world. NOTHING of it is secret (with possible exception of certain rooms in Newington). Tsk, tsk, even I was a staffer on Ham Radio magazine without having an amateur radio license. I know several licensed radio amateurs, one of which was the Best Man at my wedding, have communicated with others over amateur radios (as "third party" activity), sat in on a few ham club meetings. NO national security laws apply to amateur radio, no radio amateur is "sworn to silence" about any amateur radio activity. A Handi Talky made by Standard Communications was available, its nomenclature was SRC-146A. That must have been its CIVILIAN model designation. The "SCR" nomenclature ceased about 1945 along with the "BC" specific item nomenclature. No doubt you will say "the Army bought it for you?" :-) Of course it was a CIVILIAN model designation. I never said it was a military radio. As usual, you just assumed. You do that a lot Lennie. No, I didn't "assume" anything. I simply pointed out a very old FACT of U.S. military radio nomenclature. Why do you wish to argue such old facts? Was this ham HT purchased by yourself or was it given to you by the U.S. Army? The German repeaters ALL operated with a "whistle up" tone access. Just whistle it up and start to talk. Of course a Amateur Radio license was required. And a German call. Mine was DA2LJ. Did you communicate Army information over a German CIVILIAN amateur radio repeater? [M.I. wants to know...] There you are showing your IGNORANCE AGAIN LENNIE. Why would I communicate Military information on a Amateur Radio frequency. I don't know "why," Dannie...that's what MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ("M.I.") might want to know in interests of U.S. national security. You certainly had OPPORTUNITY. You now display considerable emotional volatility. I don't know your political mindset...other than what appears in here as a staunch conservative. All of the above can be a COVER. :-) Not a problem at all. I showed my CO the German License, my US License, and my MARS license. And after he seen it in action, he told me to KEEP bringing it. Right...and your "CO" never checked up on that, ever? ASA didn't check up on you? [ASA was still in existance in 1972] No reason to Lennie. I was perfectly legal by both German and US Military rules and regulations. Colonel Rudolph Abel, KGB, was living in NYC, being "perfectly legal to outward appearances," posing as an artist who had "ham radio for a hobby." Only thing was that he was NOT "perfectly legal" after an investigation. He was arrested, tried, convicted...later exchanged for U-2 spy plane pilot Francis Gary Powers. Being close to "unfriendly territory" was not a problem at all. You NOT BEING a ham of course, would not comprehend these things. Tsk, tsk, tsk. I was NEVER in Bavaria in the 1970s. But, I was IN the U.S. Army in the 1950s and as a civilian engineer working for civilian contractors engaged in Department of Defense contract work from the late 1950s on through to 1989. Dannie Disabled, I've had a bit MORE investigation by the U.S. government on SECURITY matters (including background checks for Top Secret and "Q") for the simple reason that I've been around longer than you have. Don't try this Tuff Guy bull**** with me. Starting to get defensive eh Loser? No, just reminding you that I've DONE military communications at a communications station...BEFORE you did...and with LOTS MORE radio equipment. The ACAN-STARCOM-DCS worked HF around the world without any big problem in "frequency assignments." Wow, real Tuff Guy stuff. I'll bet you tell some dandy "field action stories" down at the Legion hall. Well I guess from your point of view, a commando of the commo room, you would think that was a war story. We call your type a REMF. Tsk, tsk, tsk. "We" call your type just a MF. :-) You forget one thing. ALL soldiers in the U.S. Army are trained to, and expected to, "close with and destroy the enemy." Signal Corps doesn't have fancy Tonka Toy tracked vehicles, but we were expected to fight on foot if needs be. The Defense Communications System never had any problem with HF allocations...it ran 24/7 until all the HF message routes were replaced by other, faster message routes. That was in the 1970s to the 1980s...a transition time for all the U.S. military getting the start to the DSN (Digital Switched Network), the government's own Internet (as some call it). There it is guys, Lennie showing not his ignorance, but his stupidity. He sits there in front of his keys and decides everything based on incorrect assessments. What a world class dumbass. Score another "doesn't play well with others" on Dannie Disabled's record jacket. Do you remember the Vietnam War Lennie? The US Army in Europe was at the bottom of the list on new goodies. You can figure that out, right? Now let me address your ignorance further; I remember ALL the wars the United States had since 1941. I was alive all that time. After 1960 my military service obligation was over when I received my Honorable Discharge from the United States Army. Good and bad...my employer could now send me on field engineer assignments, unworried that I would be suddenly mobilized. Tsk, tsk, tsk. You should have reported all that to your Armor unit CO and had that investigated!!! [but, with your ham licenses, you "knew more" than any damn commissioned ossifers did, dint ya?] Not even you believe you said that. Tsk, tsk, tsk...you just said your CO got his own ham ticket after watching you play with your KY-116 on your knee... :-) We were field units Lennie. We didn't have air conditioned vans and sit in parking lots in Heilderburg. All we had available was HF SSB/AM/CW/RATT, VHF FM Low Band. heh heh heh...I'm familiar with Field Radio, Danny Disabled. In my time, my battalion also was the keeper of two dozen AN/GRC-26s ("a shack in the back" in a hut on a deuce and a half)...HF, with the ONLY "air conditioning" in the hut being simple fans for "cooling" and the radios' heat for "heating." No kidding, again you can't seem to follow along Lennie. We are talking about the ARMY in the 70s and your total ignorance of commo systems in use and everything about Ham Radio. Next. Tsk. Take that trank, Dannie, you are getting all flustered. "Total ignorance of commo systems in use?" :-) Now, now, don't tell me you "worked" the entire DCS of USAEUR out of your "shack onna track" and "knew it all." :-) Sweetums, after being IN ACAN-STARCOM-DCS nearly 20 years BEFORE you, I KNEW much more than any ordinary Field Radio MOS out in some boonies. Not only that, I've kept up with it from the 70s onward, have the public documentation, and know what is used TODAY, not 33 years ago. The most reliable commo was usually on the 40 mhz range FM VRC-12 units. [went OBSOLETE a long time ago...] So did the AN/GRC-106A which went operational about 1969, being replaced by the IHFR (Improved High Frequency Radio) AN/PRC-104 and its GRC, VRC variants using the same R/T in the period 1986 to 1990. There's still about 1700 or so GRC-106s at Tobeyhanna, shipped out/exchanged for various old military/government uses now and then. Was YOUR unit so 'special that you "needed" comms direct with SHAEF Hq? :-) Had no need whatsoever to communicate with Belgium. We were a field unit. We just followed instructions and did the job. ...using Ham Radio. Yeah, some "job." In other words you don't know a damn thing about what I am talking about. Why don't you just shut up and stick with what you know and quite trying to act like some know it all Lennie? I don't know it all. I DO know more about the world's communications means than you do. shrug of all not me. I could care less about Tokyo, etc. WE are TALKING about GERMANY in the 70s. "We?" You mean YOU. I could care less about Germany of the 1970s. Well, maybe a little of the Berlin scene of now...like how has the area around the Ku-damm changed? :-) Where do you get this crap from Lennie? Have you had the screw tightned on your head yet ? Tsk, tsk...more "civil discurse" from Dannie Disabled... There is NO SUCH THING MORON. Tighten that screw a bit more, you need it. Well, there ya go, making them civil discurses again...tsk. I would like to apologize to all those, except Lennie, reading this tripe. I am obviously dealing with someone (Len Anderson) that is not quite right in the head, and possible mentally ill. His ability to reason is suspect also. Poor Dannie Disabled. Like Stebie da wundermurine, he calls all who disagree with him "not right in the head." Not a good grasp of reality, that. I see no reason in continuing this debate with someone that is so incumbered by his lack of knowledge and common sense. Poor Dannie didn't get the reply he wanted. Boo hoo. Prolly didn't get the Hero medals from defending the Fulda Gap from onslaughts of Soviet armor, fighting heroically with his ham HT saving the battalion (and his CO). [it's beginning to sound like Dannie's prose is looking more like a very bad carbon copy of a Tom Clancy novel first draft...] tom cop |
Lots of garbage deleted.........
wrote in message oups.com... But, something ELSE operative here. Note: Your CO gave you permission to operate. On another thread in here, some time ago, Brian Burke was given permission by HIS CO to operate amateur radio from a foreign land. Now all the JAG-wannabes in here (PCTAs all) jumped all over Brian's case on that, citing absolutely NOTHING germane, one (a "seven-hostile-action" hero) even implying that the UCMJ didn't apply, only the FCC regulations applied (they don't but the shell-shocked murine didn't understand that). Under the terms of the Kangaroo Kourt of the PCTAs: If Brian Burke is guilty of improper amateur radio operation, then Dan Jeswald is EQUALLY GUILTY of doing so from Germany. If Dan Jeswald is not guilty, then Brian Burke is not guilty. It's the SAME SORT of "OFFENSE" as codified by the PCTA. Offense? By operating under my legal German callsign of DA2LJ, based on my just as legal US Callsign, both based on the "Status of Forces" agreement in place at the time does NOT constitute ANY SORT OF OFFENSE. Under my German Amateur Radio License I had FULL Privlidges any German National had. That included VHF on 2m FM withing the confines of the Federal Republic of Germany. Of course it was a CIVILIAN model designation. I never said it was a military radio. As usual, you just assumed. You do that a lot Lennie. No, I didn't "assume" anything. I simply pointed out a very old FACT of U.S. military radio nomenclature. Why do you wish to argue such old facts? Was this ham HT purchased by yourself or was it given to you by the U.S. Army? It was a CIVILIAN RADIO LENNIE, CIVILIAN IS NOT MILITARY, GOT IT NOW???????? And No the U.S. Army didn't GIVE it to me. It NEVER BELONGED TO the U.S. Army......GOT THAT NOW LENNIE???? Did you communicate Army information over a German CIVILIAN amateur radio repeater? [M.I. wants to know...] There you are showing your IGNORANCE AGAIN LENNIE. Why would I communicate Military information on a Amateur Radio frequency. I don't know "why," Dannie...that's what MILITARY INTELLIGENCE ("M.I.") might want to know in interests of U.S. national security. You certainly had OPPORTUNITY. You now display considerable emotional volatility. I don't know your political mindset...other than what appears in here as a staunch conservative. All of the above can be a COVER. :-) Cover for what dip****? Having a Amateur Radio QSO from a field location while in the U.S. Army in Germany? Tell ya what......if you think I did such a comsec violation, call up the flippin FBI and report me. Do it you piece of crap. Not a problem at all. I showed my CO the German License, my US License, and my MARS license. And after he seen it in action, he told me to KEEP bringing it. Right...and your "CO" never checked up on that, ever? ASA didn't check up on you? [ASA was still in existance in 1972] No reason to Lennie. I was perfectly legal by both German and US Military rules and regulations. Colonel Rudolph Abel, KGB, was living in NYC, being "perfectly legal to outward appearances," posing as an artist who had "ham radio for a hobby." Only thing was that he was NOT "perfectly legal" after an investigation. He was arrested, tried, convicted...later exchanged for U-2 spy plane pilot Francis Gary Powers. So call the FBI blowhard. plonk Nothing else worth commenting on. Think I'll go find something useful to do, like enjoy my ham radio. Sure beats talking to this moron. Dan/W4NTI |
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