Dee Flint wrote:

How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to get
a bunch all at once before it levels out once again.

There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea:

Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be
a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a
website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field
Day, a whole weekend of demos.

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint
wrote:

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out.


I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without
offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence"
to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table
with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all
participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one
saying "its a problem but YOU do the work."


| These principals are all well and good but propose some specific,
concrete
| actions.

Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come
from
the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be
a
long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find
you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go.


I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not
everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone
else to solve.


| I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different
| people are going to have ten different needs and ideas.

And why not hear them all out?


No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite
possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that
everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on
an almost daily basis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

I don't think you have to explain. It is plain that those against change
are into the ploy of attack the person advancing the change, list
everything wrong, submit NO ideas for change, ignore, play dumb, hope it
all goes away, keep it a close door group, etc, etc...

You really don't have to take time to explain, we can work withing that
framework...

John

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 18:16:25 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


wrote in message
...
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint
wrote:

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out.


I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without
offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence"
to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table
with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all
participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one
saying "its a problem but YOU do the work."


| These principals are all well and good but propose some specific,
concrete
| actions.

Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come
from
the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be
a
long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find
you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go.


I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not
everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone
else to solve.


| I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different
| people are going to have ten different needs and ideas.

And why not hear them all out?


No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite
possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that
everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on
an almost daily basis.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote in message
ps.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders? We're apt to
get
a bunch all at once before it levels out once again.

There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea:

Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This can be
a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting talk, a
website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then there's Field
Day, a whole weekend of demos.

73 de Jim, N2EY


The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this has a chance of
getting those hams who don't belong to clubs. As far as websites go, there
are already so many (some are very good) that I think additional websites
may get lost in the crowd so to speak. Our club already has a presentation
at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here.

I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders?
We're apt to get
a bunch all at once before it levels out once again.

There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea:

Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This
can be
a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting
talk, a
website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then
there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos.

The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this
has a chance of
getting those hams who don't belong to clubs.

One thing that generates interest is to see stuff
actually in use. The AM folks in these parts have
gotten into the idea of setting up a demo station
at big hamfests like Gaithersburg. They use classic
hollow-state gear, and show what both the gear and
the mode are like. Usually it's a group effort, so
the station is always on the air and nobody has
to bring a complete setup.

Another venue is specialized events like air shows.
Some military-radio collectors set up a demo and
display (with permission of course) and show the
radio gear in action.

As far as
websites go, there
are already so many (some are very good) that I think
additional websites
may get lost in the crowd so to speak.

I think there's always room for more *good* online info.
The big challenge is making it easy to find.

Our club already has a presentation
at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here.

I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not
involved with any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition.

That's a classic problem. But if the advice is offered the right
way, most folks will take it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

N2EY:

Gee, and we wonder why kids raised with computers and state-of-the-art
communications are not turned on...

John

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 16:47:49 -0700, N2EY wrote:

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

Dee Flint wrote:

How about the best way to "elmer" the flood of upgraders?
We're apt to get
a bunch all at once before it levels out once again.

There's no one best way for everyone, but here's one idea:

Demos. Show folks how it's done, rather than talking. This
can be
a display/talk/station setup at a hamfest, a club meeting
talk, a
website, or a magazine article, just for starters. Then
there's Field Day, a whole weekend of demos.

The demo/display/talk at a hamfest is a good idea as this
has a chance of
getting those hams who don't belong to clubs.

One thing that generates interest is to see stuff
actually in use. The AM folks in these parts have
gotten into the idea of setting up a demo station
at big hamfests like Gaithersburg. They use classic
hollow-state gear, and show what both the gear and
the mode are like. Usually it's a group effort, so
the station is always on the air and nobody has
to bring a complete setup.

Another venue is specialized events like air shows.
Some military-radio collectors set up a demo and
display (with permission of course) and show the
radio gear in action.

As far as
websites go, there
are already so many (some are very good) that I think
additional websites
may get lost in the crowd so to speak.

I think there's always room for more *good* online info.
The big challenge is making it easy to find.

Our club already has a presentation
at almost every meeting so at least our club is already covered here.

I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not
involved with any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth transition.

That's a classic problem. But if the advice is offered the right
way, most folks will take it.

73 de Jim, N2EY

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

cut
I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that,
certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth.
most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to
operate

I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see
on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop
talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get
something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest
barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF

Some techs are cluessless and need hand holding (as do some extras,
general etc) most that have stuck arround a bit are pretty
resuourcefull and fairly pataint
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
...

On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint
wrote:

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out.



I was poking fun at the person who says we must do such and so without
offering any solutions of his own. He's trying to throw it "over the fence"
to some one else to solve. When I identify problems, I come to the table
with several possible solutions to debate and welcome input from all
participants. But I do not particularly care for the approach of some one
saying "its a problem but YOU do the work."


| These principals are all well and good but propose some specific,
concrete
| actions.

Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come
from
the same person. First decide where you are going. That in itself may be
a
long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find
you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go.



I do not have any such expectations. He has identified problems that not
everyone agrees are problems and is "dumping" them in the laps of everyone
else to solve.

Talk is quite inexpensive. To point out what the problem is, and with
no solutions - or offers to enact solutions is great work if you can get it.

I worked with a guy once who used to say "My position in life is to
point out the shortcomings of others." And he was serious.




| I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different
| people are going to have ten different needs and ideas.

And why not hear them all out?



No problem with hearing them out but when you have ten different and quite
possibly opposing expectations, needs, and wants there is no way that
everyone is going to be satisfied with the results. This is demonstrated on
an almost daily basis.

Yup. When I was the prez of the youth hockey league, there were several
times when I was pulled aside by both sets of parents in disputes with
threats to sue if my decision didn't go their way.

- Mike KB3EIA -

AOF:

You know, you have a point there. To tell you the truth, the full impact
just brought me awake alike a slap in the face!

Those ancient HF's with their fondness for mimicking pseudo-military
communications, dreaming of saving-the-world-with-a-brass-key and
using army protocols are going to wage a war like
all-hell-has-broke-loose. And, while providing some entertainment, is
likely to result in complete chaos!

May take a decade just for the flack to clear the air...

John

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 17:25:00 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

cut
I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that,
certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth.
most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to
operate

I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see
on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop
talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get
something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest
barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF

Some techs are cluessless and need hand holding (as do some extras,
general etc) most that have stuck arround a bit are pretty
resuourcefull and fairly pataint
Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote:

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out.


| These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete
| actions.

Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from
the same person.

That is correct. The ability to point out a problem is in no way related
to the ability to do something about it.


First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a
long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find
you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go.


| I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different
| people are going to have ten different needs and ideas.

And why not hear them all out?

I don't know about you, but when I deal with people who consistently
point out problems, and don't offer any solutions, I end up listening to
the people who point out problems, and then DO something about them.
It's a lot easier. Not to mention it works.

The all problems no solutions people sometimes seem just like people
who want to grouse.

- Mike KB3EIA -