Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too!

John

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 21:01:01 -0400, Mike Coslo wrote:

wrote:
On Sun, 14 Aug 2005 18:20:07 -0400 Dee Flint wrote:

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

| How?

Remind me not to hire you in a job that requires figuring things out.


| These principals are all well and good but propose some specific, concrete
| actions.

Don't expect the directions, and the means to get there, to always come from
the same person.

That is correct. The ability to point out a problem is in no way related
to the ability to do something about it.


First decide where you are going. That in itself may be a
long complex decision process. Then decide how to get there. If you find
you can't get there, then go back and decide on another place to go.


| I seriously doubt if the course will be all that clear. Ten different
| people are going to have ten different needs and ideas.

And why not hear them all out?

I don't know about you, but when I deal with people who consistently
point out problems, and don't offer any solutions, I end up listening to
the people who point out problems, and then DO something about them.
It's a lot easier. Not to mention it works.

The all problems no solutions people sometimes seem just like people
who want to grouse.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine
too!

John



That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just
talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do
I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their
issue.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee:

Yes. I agree, and now we must do our part and bring the word that there
will not be a element 1. And, help those with an interest in radio to the
amateur bands. But, this all depends on no code, so there is a lag while
we wait.

It doesn't take much to do a lot, every amateur bring one new licensee in,
we double the numbers, two we triple, etc.

Frankly, it is quite exciting! But, it would probably be too optimistic
to expect everyone to participate, some may be "sour grapes" and drag
their feet, leaving some to do more...

The club here is dominated by "save the code" types, I am not popular
there at all and some just avoid me. Hopefully, this will change...
probably not, my hide is thick. grin

John

On Mon, 15 Aug 2005 22:03:19 -0400, Dee Flint wrote:


"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine
too!

John



That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just
talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do
I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their
issue.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine
too!

John



That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just
talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor do
I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their
issue.

As One of them over the years I thank you for your gracious words. They
have been rare from the "Other Side"

I point out the the Nocoder took the Treaty and FCC and won now we just
have to deal with HF, forgive me if it this flip but I think HF will
pose an easier task.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

John Smith wrote:
Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine too!

I certainly respect Bill. I argue with him sometimes, but We've always
kept it civil - tho' I don't think he likes my "predictions" very much! 8^)

I even respect Carl, even if he cahnged his mind about some pretty
important things. I would offer some advice to him tho': Never say never...

- Mike KB3EIA -

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

cut
I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with
any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that,
certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth.
most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to
operate


This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this
type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see
on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop
talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get
something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest
barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF


Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem
in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two
of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a
Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have
enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The
mutual respect is the key to it.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Dee:

Yes. I agree, and now we must do our part and bring the word that there
will not be a element 1. And, help those with an interest in radio to the
amateur bands. But, this all depends on no code, so there is a lag while
we wait.


I fear you are in for a big disappointment. Dropping the code was never the
key.

It doesn't take much to do a lot, every amateur bring one new licensee in,
we double the numbers, two we triple, etc.


I've been beating the drum for years. I've hung my awards in my office. No
nibbles.

Frankly, it is quite exciting! But, it would probably be too optimistic
to expect everyone to participate, some may be "sour grapes" and drag
their feet, leaving some to do more...

The club here is dominated by "save the code" types, I am not popular
there at all and some just avoid me. Hopefully, this will change...
probably not, my hide is thick. grin


Find a different club. Our club has two "missions" if you will. One is
supporting public service events and the other is running amateur radio
classes. We are already scheduling classes for the people who will want to
ugrade to General under the new system. We figure by the time we get the
word around about the changing requirements and the class, arrange a
location, have the class set up, and actually go through the class, it
should dovetail fairly well with the arrival of the new licensing
requirements. The class is likely to start in January.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
"John Smith" wrote in message
news
Mike:

Then, where some have pointed out CW is a problem, and then they form
NCI
and go right on and change it much gain your respect and support, mine
too!

John



That is exactly what I am talking about. They did something besides just
talk. Although I did not and do not agree with their particular goal nor
do
I support their goal, they have my respect for actually working on their
issue.

As One of them over the years I thank you for your gracious words. They
have been rare from the "Other Side"

I point out the the Nocoder took the Treaty and FCC and won now we just
have to deal with HF, forgive me if it this flip but I think HF will
pose an easier task.

Don't get too carried away. While I admired the fact that they acted instead
of talked, I abhored the NCI tactics. As far as I am concerned, they put
down the no coders worse than any pro-code advocate ever did by pushing the
idea that it was too hard for average people to learn. They also touted how
much less power modes like PSK took but omitted including the power
requirements for the necessary computer and monitor, which more than wipes
out any power consumption advantage.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

cut
I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with
any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that,
certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth.
most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to
operate


This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this
type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

and also with a fair chance of not being blind sided as well, there is
no free launch as AMSAT would say


I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see
on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop
talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get
something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest
barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF


Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem
in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two
of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a
Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have
enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The
mutual respect is the key to it.

Indeed it does, as did the club I belonged in Springfield IL and
several other clubs I have vistied over the years


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

AOF:

As I have been pointing out to you, with my last few posts, taking newbies
under your wing and showing them there is nothing to fear. The gov't has
granted them their license, certainly no one here is able to question the
validity, and those who stoop so low are to be pitied... but, it is only
those who can demonstrate this ability now, who will be able to help them
then...

John

On Tue, 16 Aug 2005 15:40:43 -0700, an_old_friend wrote:


Dee Flint wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
ps.com...

cut
I'm really thinking in terms of the many hams who are not involved with
any
groups. That could be a large percentage. "Elmering" them over the air
could be miscontrued yet they too will need help to succeed in a smooth
transition.

A smooth transition? I don't know who you think is expecting that,
certainly not any Techs I know, they are expecting anything but smooth.
most are expecting to be insulted and put down , and then told how to
operate


This is a problem that needs to be addressed. Those that come in with this
type of attitude and expectation are at great risk of creating a
self-fulfilling prophecy.

and also with a fair chance of not being blind sided as well, there is
no free launch as AMSAT would say


I am marginaly involved in the local club the only tech class they see
on a regular basis, and it is clear by how certain folks suddenly stop
talking whne I wander near (with sharper ears than most, I had to get
something to compendsate for my lousy writing) it is clear the biggest
barriar to a "smooth" transition is most likely the folks already on HF


Your club has a problem in that case. However we do not have that problem
in the club to which I belong. It is approximately half Technicians. Two
of our club officers are Technicians. Our club satellite guru was a
Technician until quite recently as was our club VHF guru. They all have
enthusiasm for the club and ham radio and there is mutual respect. The
mutual respect is the key to it.

Indeed it does, as did the club I belonged in Springfield IL and
several other clubs I have vistied over the years


Dee D. Flint, N8UZE