K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.

It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out
And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.

I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

wrote:

From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.


It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out

And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.


I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

Than it is the news coverage that has missed the boat. I have listened
(BTW first rule for an emergency net, listen, don't transmit, unless
your help is needed) to the SATERN net (14.265) and heard relays of
quite a number of life saving messages - e.g. someone at such and such
an address needs to be rescued. Sounds like life saving to me.
John

John wrote:
an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

wrote:
cut
I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

Than it is the news coverage that has missed the boat. I have listened
(BTW first rule for an emergency net, listen, don't transmit, unless
your help is needed) to the SATERN net (14.265) and heard relays of
quite a number of life saving messages - e.g. someone at such and such
an address needs to be rescued. Sounds like life saving to me.
John
did you catch/record a city or such?

one of the reasons I keep asking and pressing is to help make sure we
as Hams know these things for the day when we will need them

"John" wrote in message
...


an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

wrote:

From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.


It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out

And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.


I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

Than it is the news coverage that has missed the boat. I have listened
(BTW first rule for an emergency net, listen, don't transmit, unless your
help is needed) to the SATERN net (14.265) and heard relays of quite a
number of life saving messages - e.g. someone at such and such an address
needs to be rescued. Sounds like life saving to me.
John

And I also have been hearing MARS passing life-saving traffic. Uh, MARS
is.............er, what? HAMS! And I've also heard the SAtern net doing the
same. "Mrs. X is out of insulin, critical need at such 'n such place". "Be
careful wading around there, we saw some water moccasins swimming there".
(Have you ever SEEN a cotton mouth, Mr Anderson)

It is not just H & W traffic; the ham volunteers are in place to facilitate
communications whatever the message.
They were onscene almost immediately doing what they have always done; a
part in the total scheme of things. How MUCH ham radio does is immaterial,
or WHAT traffic they pass is not important. They ARE there doing what they
can just as I would if I were called. This bickering, snipping, arguing
about the "uselessness" of ham radio is stupid and those that who armchair
quarterback from 1000 miles away don't know what they are talking about just
as I don't know what is going on in NO. But I CAN monitor what is happening
and I know that the military, CAP, church relief organizations, Red Cross,
AND Amateur Radio are doing whatever they can to contribute to the effort.

The thread began pre-Katrina and was basically about how Amateur Radio was
"useless" or irrelevant to disasters--even how the wonderfully "organized"
CBers could provide "communications into and out of a stricken area---along
with the usually attacks and accusations.

The bottom line is, hams ARE providing a service. Some of it is Health and
Welfare traffic, some of it is vital communications concerning threats to
life and property. I'm sitting here LISTENING to it, dammit! So let's quit
yelling at each other and get back to work whether it be wading thru
several feet of water, looking for victims, passing the most mundane of
messages, OR opening our wallets to donate money or supplies.
]
Jerry

Jerry wrote:
"John" wrote in message
...
cut
I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

Than it is the news coverage that has missed the boat. I have listened
(BTW first rule for an emergency net, listen, don't transmit, unless your
help is needed) to the SATERN net (14.265) and heard relays of quite a
number of life saving messages - e.g. someone at such and such an address
needs to be rescued. Sounds like life saving to me.
John

And I also have been hearing MARS passing life-saving traffic. Uh, MARS
is.............er, what? HAMS! And I've also heard the SAtern net doing the
same. "Mrs. X is out of insulin, critical need at such 'n such place". "Be
careful wading around there, we saw some water moccasins swimming there".
(Have you ever SEEN a cotton mouth, Mr Anderson)

It is not just H & W traffic; the ham volunteers are in place to facilitate
communications whatever the message.
They were onscene almost immediately doing what they have always done; a
part in the total scheme of things. How MUCH ham radio does is immaterial,
or WHAT traffic they pass is not important.

Both are relavant points and point we need to be able to answer with
facts not generalities

They ARE there doing what they
can just as I would if I were called. This bickering, snipping, arguing
about the "uselessness" of ham radio is stupid and those that who armchair
quarterback from 1000 miles away don't know what they are talking about just
as I don't know what is going on in NO. But I CAN monitor what is happening
and I know that the military, CAP, church relief organizations, Red Cross,
AND Amateur Radio are doing whatever they can to contribute to the effort.

indeed why is it when someone is questioning the vitalness they are
calling something useless

The thread began pre-Katrina and was basically about how Amateur Radio was
"useless" or irrelevant to disasters--even how the wonderfully "organized"
CBers could provide "communications into and out of a stricken area---along
with the usually attacks and accusations.

again overdrawing

The bottom line is, hams ARE providing a service. Some of it is Health and
Welfare traffic, some of it is vital communications concerning threats to
life and property. I'm sitting here LISTENING to it, dammit! So let's quit
yelling at each other and get back to work whether it be wading thru
several feet of water, looking for victims, passing the most mundane of
messages, OR opening our wallets to donate money or supplies.

indeed the only yelling I seeing is from the side that says one may not
question the content or the value of the message
]
Jerry

"Jerry" wrote in message
...

"John" wrote in message
...


an_old_friend wrote:
K4YZ wrote:

wrote:

From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the
patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face
of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.


It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out

And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.


I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before

Than it is the news coverage that has missed the boat. I have listened
(BTW first rule for an emergency net, listen, don't transmit, unless your
help is needed) to the SATERN net (14.265) and heard relays of quite a
number of life saving messages - e.g. someone at such and such an address
needs to be rescued. Sounds like life saving to me.
John

And I also have been hearing MARS passing life-saving traffic. Uh, MARS
is.............er, what? HAMS! And I've also heard the SAtern net doing
the same. "Mrs. X is out of insulin, critical need at such 'n such place".
"Be careful wading around there, we saw some water moccasins swimming
there". (Have you ever SEEN a cotton mouth, Mr Anderson)

It is not just H & W traffic; the ham volunteers are in place to
facilitate communications whatever the message.
They were onscene almost immediately doing what they have always done; a
part in the total scheme of things. How MUCH ham radio does is immaterial,
or WHAT traffic they pass is not important. They ARE there doing what they
can just as I would if I were called. This bickering, snipping, arguing
about the "uselessness" of ham radio is stupid and those that who armchair
quarterback from 1000 miles away don't know what they are talking about
just as I don't know what is going on in NO. But I CAN monitor what is
happening and I know that the military, CAP, church relief organizations,
Red Cross, AND Amateur Radio are doing whatever they can to contribute to
the effort.

The thread began pre-Katrina and was basically about how Amateur Radio was
"useless" or irrelevant to disasters--even how the wonderfully "organized"
CBers could provide "communications into and out of a stricken
area---along with the usually attacks and accusations.

The bottom line is, hams ARE providing a service. Some of it is Health and
Welfare traffic, some of it is vital communications concerning threats to
life and property. I'm sitting here LISTENING to it, dammit! So let's quit
yelling at each other and get back to work whether it be wading thru
several feet of water, looking for victims, passing the most mundane of
messages, OR opening our wallets to donate money or supplies.
]
Jerry


Bravo Jerry....well put. I assure you there are very few folks here that
share the view of 'an old friend'.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"Jerry" wrote in message
...
cut


Bravo Jerry....well put. I assure you there are very few folks here that
share the view of 'an old friend'.

only about a thrid of the regulars here

Dan/W4NTI

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the
patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face
of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.

It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out
And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.

I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before


Just what do you consider "VITAL COMMS" ???

Lets get some specifics here . Then we shall see the Ham community tear you
a new one.

Dan/W4NTI

Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

K4YZ wrote:
wrote:
From: "K4YZ" on Thurs 8 Sep 2005 23:39

I've noted that the usual rhetoric from the "Ham Radio Will Never
Get Through When Anything Fails" crowd, specifically from the
patriarch
of the Feeble Five, Lennie "No Guts" Anderson, has waned in the face
of
MAJOR media stories in all facets of "the press" that have lauded
Amateur Radio.

"Patriarch?!?" Not I, never having met in-person any of
those against the mighty warrior of "seven hostile actions,"
Dudly the Unconquerable...aka Dudly the Unhumbleable.

In other words, you're ducking. Amateur Radio is doing exactly
what you said it can't won't do.

It is "ducking" to disclaim a title conferred by your enemy

and ARs is still not providing vital coms

cut excess hot air suggesting perhaps it be redirected to NO to help
dry the place out
And YOU are the one who always claims that Amateur Radio isn't the
"force" that it's own PR folks claim simply because there's not "major
media" coverage corroborating it.

Whelp...I consider Fox News, CNN, The Wall Street Journal, MSN,
etc, to be those "major media" resources.

I have been watching the news I don't see any coverage indacating that
the ARs is preforming a vital service. It is providing the H&W traffic,
important but nothing life saving

cuting more hot air, with the same suggestion as before


Just what do you consider "VITAL COMMS" ???

as i have said Vital ops are those that can't be handled by other
means, the failure of which to get through will cause substancail harm
to many people or additonal damage to infrastructure

Since the post the post you are quoting I have heard of some
lifesavinng messgae but would stand behind the revised assertion that
most of the ARS traffic is H&W with some life saving traffic in the mix

But what I am seeing described is retail aid, in a disater of
wholescale proprotions

important but not vital

What traffic is being passed by the ARS that would affect the headlines
in this disaster, the only headlines that would be affected are the one
mentioning us by name

Vital comms

I have been informed that the ARS can normaly allow to be complied list
of people in the shelters of the affected areas, I hear from SecHS
mouth that no such list yet exists after how many days

Indeed I can recall being regalled with how Cw would rise to pass large
volumes of traffic for us in a disater such as this

Lets get some specifics here . Then we shall see the Ham community tear you
a new one.

Why BTW is someone holding the opinion that th ARS operations in
Katrina are important and valueble but not al though vital such a
threat to your ego?

the ARS is doing better than I expected out of this, but not at all as
well as we have been lead to believe it could do

Dan/W4NTI

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
oups.com...

Dan/W4NTI wrote:

Just what do you consider "VITAL COMMS" ???

as i have said Vital ops are those that can't be handled by other
means, the failure of which to get through will cause substancail harm
to many people or additonal damage to infrastructure


So....none of the examples given by me or others in here is considered vital
comms to you. Well I am sure those that needed the messages send, and
those that got them considered them vital.

I will give you one more example of how ham radio got the job done, when
NOTHING ELSE WORKED.

My city, Anniston Alabama wanted to donate several Police Vehicles to the
city of Waveland MS. The city manager made several attempts to contact the
city in MS. NO WAY COULD HE GET THROUGH.

The city manager here knew a city employee was a Ham operator. He asked him
if he could help. He picked up the message and gave it to me, since he
was working at the time.

I passed that message within an hour. A day went by, no return call. That
evening on the regular Alabama Traffic Net I asked our member KB7BSA who was
in Biloxi if she could get someone into Waveland and see if they need the
Police cars.

She not only did just that, but did it herself by traveling to the town,
found the Chief of Police. He is sending people to pick them up today.

Do you think the people of Waveland are going to be happy that they now have
Police patrolling their town once again? Is that vital? Or could a CB
done it? Or GMRS ? Or carrier Pidgeon????


Since the post the post you are quoting I have heard of some
lifesavinng messgae but would stand behind the revised assertion that
most of the ARS traffic is H&W with some life saving traffic in the mix


OK, I get it now. Next Communication Emergency we will have you set up the
allowed traffic list.

But what I am seeing described is retail aid, in a disater of
wholescale proprotions

important but not vital

Retail aid? What the heck is that?

What traffic is being passed by the ARS that would affect the headlines
in this disaster, the only headlines that would be affected are the one
mentioning us by name


Who gives a damn about headlines.
Those that respond in this situation are looking to get the job done. Not
your approval.

Vital comms

I have been informed that the ARS can normaly allow to be complied list
of people in the shelters of the affected areas, I hear from SecHS
mouth that no such list yet exists after how many days


Well Mr. Know it all....The RED CROSS is responsible for getting the lists
at the Shelters. Then passing them as they see fit. The hams are there to
COMMUNICATE ....NOT MAKE POLICY.

Indeed I can recall being regalled with how Cw would rise to pass large
volumes of traffic for us in a disater such as this


When traffic is passed via the Region nets it is passed by CW. CW is being
used for H&W. I already told you this.

Lets get some specifics here . Then we shall see the Ham community tear
you
a new one.

Why BTW is someone holding the opinion that th ARS operations in
Katrina are important and valueble but not al though vital such a
threat to your ego?

A threat to my ego? All I am doing is TRYING to explain to that hole
between your ears that Ham Radio is doing something good here. But you
simply refuse to believe it because you are in a RF hole in Upper Michigan.
Get you attitude adjusted.

the ARS is doing better than I expected out of this, but not at all as
well as we have been lead to believe it could do

See what I mean? Even when you are shown what the Hams are doing, you
doubt it. YOU ARE ONE PARANOID SCREWBALL.

Dan/W4NTI