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wrote in message oups.com... From: on Dec 11, 8:08 pm wrote: K?B wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote That's what will be the real problem. As so many have pointed out, there is no organization to which the majority of hams belongs, at least in this country. While the ARRL is the largest, the majority of the ham population does NOT belong to it and will likely scream bloody murder if they were to get to establish the band plan. That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individual pays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU because each country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL, RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. But there's a big problem there....see below You always know better than everyone else. See below. Tsk, we've seen it many, many times... :-( IARU is not a government agency. It is us, the hams of the world, totally independent of national governments and independent of international organizations like ITU or CEPT. Who better than the hams to decide how ham frequencies should be used? Are we so conditioned to "big government" dependency that (within our allocations) we need disinvolved government bureaucrats to make decisions that much more logically belong to the actual affected users? But do the actual users get a real voice? Do I get to vote on the bandplan for bands I use? Do I even get to elect the representative who does? Didn't Carl attend the last ITU meeting? Didn't the ARRL attend? Didn't the FCC attend? How much representation do you need, Jim? Himself in the Chairman's chair? Or will the bandplans be decided upon by folks whom are even less beholden to "the users" than the FCC? Benevolent King Jim will rule intelligently and fairly. To the extent that the band plan would not be dynamic on a minute-to-minute schedule, you are correct. But it certainly be more dynamic and responsive that the current generation-to-generation schedule of ?97.305. A group would have to meet and reallocate as needed. In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 years later in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. And here's the problem: Let me sit down and pour a stiff drink. ...and I slip a note to Hans suggesting he change the "hour" to "24 hours" to accommodate the international time zones of the IARU... Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by regionfor HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Does each member country get one vote? If so, that puts the USA, with its 661,000+ amateurs, at the same voting level as a country with a few dozen amateurs. A coalition of small countries with a handful of amateurs could dictate the bandplan for whole region. Oh, my. I hope that the US hams have treated "thier" neighbor hams kindly. If King Jim has so decreed, they have. Meanwhile there's a large crowd who've just dropped the drawbridge and are storming the castle. King Jim may have to abdicate to a simple white "throne." If not, the USA's enormous amateur population makes us the de-facto 800 pound gorilla in the region. Can't we all just get along? King Kong made it to the top of the Empire State building, then had a big fall. You might say Kong "went ape" when he couldn't get what he wanted. Helluva big disposal problem for NYC. The same for the fantasies of all those morsemen who want their private little playground at the expense of others. Well, those guys are biodegradeable also... In either case, the IARU member society for the USA is...the ARRL. Which is why it's so important to keep movers and shakers like Carl out of the organization's management. God rest ye, league gentlemen, let nothing you dismay... Do you think everyone will be glad the ARRL is the USA's representative for determining bandplans? It would be better if the IARU declared a plan rather than go with the ARRL's recent bandplan scheme. ARRL still doesn't "represent" any more than one in five U.S. amateur radio licensees. They barely made one in four a while back. They've been nothing but a MINORITY representative organization all along. ARRL has NEVER "represented" those who might want to join amateur radio through licensing...they just dictate to everyone what newcomers must think and do. If the ARRL *truly* wanted to "represent" all U.S. radio amateurs, they should quit going around with their familiar arrogant posturing of "we know what is best for the rest of you." FCC of the futu "Here are your allocated bands, use all allocated modes anywhere. No bandplans. Enjoy your options. Try not to mess up comms of others and follow the technical requirements." That's really all that's needed for a HOBBY. Those who need control, control, and compex fastidious little sub-band planning should go to Dr. Phil or join a federal comms agency. Since I've been told the FAA grants amateur radio licenses, not the FCC, I may have to start writing the FAA. :-) Dr Phil does not handle ham radio cases. You must have him confused with Dr Hambone. I am busy right now helping Hans decide if he should wear his uniform to the Legion Christmas party. Rabbi Phil Ruling San Hedrin Council |
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wrote: From: on Dec 11, 8:08 pm wrote: K؈B wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote That's what will be the real problem. As so many have pointed out, there is no organization to which the majority of hams belongs, at least inthis country. While the ARRL is the largest, the majority of the ham population does NOT belong to it and will likely scream bloody murder if theywere to get to establish the band plan. That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individual pays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU because each country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL, RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. But there's a big problem there....see below You always know better than everyone else. See below. Tsk, we've seen it many, many times... :-( So much so that it's predictable. ;^) IARU is not a government agency. It is us, the hams of the world, totally independent of national governments and independent of international organizations like ITU or CEPT. Who better than the hams to decide how ham frequencies should be used? Are we so conditioned to "big government" dependency that (within our allocations) we need disinvolved government bureaucrats to make decisions that much more logically belong to theactual affected users? But do the actual users get a real voice? Do I get to vote on the bandplan for bands I use? Do I even get to elect the representative who does? Didn't Carl attend the last ITU meeting? Didn't the ARRL attend? Didn't the FCC attend? How much representation do you need, Jim? Himself in the Chairman's chair? Maybe they should send FISTS to the meeting. Or will the bandplans be decided upon by folks whom are even less beholden to "the users" than the FCC? Benevolent King Jim will rule intelligently and fairly. To the extent that the band plan would not be dynamic on a minute-to-minute schedule, you are correct. But it certainly be more dynamic and responsive that the current generation-to-generation schedule of ?97.305. A group would have to meet and reallocate as needed. In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 years later in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. And here's the problem: Let me sit down and pour a stiff drink. ...and I slip a note to Hans suggesting he change the "hour" to "24 hours" to accommodate the international time zones of the IARU... There are three ITU regions, so the clock divided by three leaves each region with an 8 hour window of opportunity, though it may take Hans only one hour to setup the conf. call. Suppose for a moment the IARU scheme is done by regionfor HF - after all, that's how the allocations work. So IARU reps from all the Region 2 countries decide how the Region 2 HF bandplan works. Does each member country get one vote? If so, that puts the USA, with its 661,000+ amateurs, at the same voting level as a country with a few dozen amateurs. A coalition of small countries with a handful of amateurs could dictate the bandplan for whole region. Oh, my. I hope that the US hams have treated "thier" neighbor hams kindly. If King Jim has so decreed, they have. Meanwhile there's a large crowd who've just dropped the drawbridge and are storming the castle. King Jim may have to abdicate to a simple white "throne." Certainly he can "serve" in his own Kingdom? If not, the USA's enormous amateur population makes us the de-facto 800 pound gorilla in the region. Can't we all just get along? King Kong made it to the top of the Empire State building, then had a big fall. You might say Kong "went ape" when he couldn't get what he wanted. I thought he wanted the pretty girl? Helluva big disposal problem for NYC. The same for the fantasies of all those morsemen who want their private little playground at the expense of others. Well, those guys are biodegradeable also... No sharing of spectrum? In either case, the IARU member society for the USA is...the ARRL. Which is why it's so important to keep movers and shakers like Carl out of the organization's management. God rest ye, league gentlemen, let nothing you dismay... I suspect that Carl will "serve in other ways." ;^)) Do you think everyone will be glad the ARRL is the USA's representative for determining bandplans? It would be better if the IARU declared a plan rather than go with the ARRL's recent bandplan scheme. ARRL still doesn't "represent" any more than one in five U.S. amateur radio licensees. They barely made one in four a while back. They've been nothing but a MINORITY representative organization all along. ARRL has NEVER "represented" those who might want to join amateur radio through licensing...they just dictate to everyone what newcomers must think and do. They're so proud of Dee. If the ARRL *truly* wanted to "represent" all U.S. radio amateurs, they should quit going around with their familiar arrogant posturing of "we know what is best for the rest of you." FCC of the futu "Here are your allocated bands, use all allocated modes anywhere. No bandplans. Enjoy your options. Try not to mess up comms of others and follow the technical requirements." That's really all that's needed for a HOBBY. Those who need control, control, and compex fastidious little sub-band planning should go to Dr. Phil or join a federal comms agency. Since I've been told the FAA grants amateur radio licenses, not the FCC, I may have to start writing the FAA. :-) Suprised they don't farm it out to the FFA. |
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wrote Didn't Carl attend the last ITU meeting? Didn't the ARRL attend? Didn't the FCC attend? Who cares? We aren't talking about ITU. We're talking about IARU. They're unrelated entities. Beep beep de Hans, K0HB |
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wrote But in the "real world", that would boil down to a bunch of appointed experts going into the proverbial smoky back room and coming up with a bandplan that would have the force of law in the USA. "Smoky back room"? Aren't you the evenhanded/non-biased wordsmith now?!?!? Classic case of "don't confuse me with new ideas that I didn't think of". NIH in spades. Guys like you are why Amateur Radio is stuck in the 1940's. |
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On 11 Dec 2005 19:45:35 -0800, wrote:
wrote: K4YZ wrote: WHOA! There's the pot calling the kettle black! Whoa! Steve writes "raped an old friend" and thinks it's OK. Hello? Steve? Defend it or apologize for it! don't hold your breth waiting for either to happen everyone should be advised that The following person has been advocating the abuse of elders making false charges of child rape, rape in general forges post and name he may also be making flase reports of abusing other in order to attak and cow his foes he also shows signs of being dangerously unstable STEVEN J ROBESON 151 12TH AVE NW WINCHESTER TN 37398 931-967-6282 _________________________________________ Usenet Zone Free Binaries Usenet Server More than 140,000 groups Unlimited download http://www.usenetzone.com to open account |
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From: on Dec 12, 3:34 pm
wrote: From: on Dec 11, 8:08 pm wrote: K0HB wrote: "Dee Flint" wrote That's what makes the IARU an attractive vehicle. While no individual pays memberships dues in IARU, all hams are defacto members of IARU because each country has a representative who represents ALL hams in their jurisdiction independent of whether they are members of the national "club" like ARRL, RAC, RSGB, DARC, JARL, or whatever. But there's a big problem there....see below You always know better than everyone else. See below. Tsk, we've seen it many, many times... :-( So much so that it's predictable. ;^) Heh heh heh. But do the actual users get a real voice? Do I get to vote on the bandplan for bands I use? Do I even get to elect the representative who does? Didn't Carl attend the last ITU meeting? Didn't the ARRL attend? Didn't the FCC attend? How much representation do you need, Jim? Himself in the Chairman's chair? Maybe they should send FISTS to the meeting. ...the man with the Golden Glove... Or will the bandplans be decided upon by folks whom are even less beholden to "the users" than the FCC? Benevolent King Jim will rule intelligently and fairly. [as long as he gets his way...] In the 1930's that certainly would have been an impediment. But 75 years later in 2005, give me a list of 100 IARU representatives and within the next hour I can establish a secure and private "meeting room" on the internet where they can hold their allocation meetings, hammer out their agreements, and publish the bandplan on a global basis before halftime of Monday Night Football. And here's the problem: Let me sit down and pour a stiff drink. I think I'll join you in that since Hans had to jump in and CORRECT a "relationship" of ITU and IARU where the ITU was brought up by yourself only in a passing remark and not dwelled on... :-( ...and I slip a note to Hans suggesting he change the "hour" to "24 hours" to accommodate the international time zones of the IARU... There are three ITU regions, so the clock divided by three leaves each region with an 8 hour window of opportunity, though it may take Hans only one hour to setup the conf. call. I don't know that "conference calls" are needed either. With tossing e-mail back and forth, it wouldn't take longer than a week and nobody has to physically travel to an in-person meeting...nor pay any per diem. If tried in an 8-hour period that leaves out 16 hours for two-thirds of the globe. Nobody gonna get "friendly" if they have to be up between 11 PM through 7 AM the next day LOCALLY. Does each member country get one vote? If so, that puts the USA, with its 661,000+ amateurs, at the same voting level as a country with a few dozen amateurs. A coalition of small countries with a handful of amateurs could dictate the bandplan for whole region. Oh, my. I hope that the US hams have treated "thier" neighbor hams kindly. If King Jim has so decreed, they have. Meanwhile there's a large crowd who've just dropped the drawbridge and are storming the castle. King Jim may have to abdicate to a simple white "throne." Certainly he can "serve" in his own Kingdom? Yes, but his "kingdom" will have shrunk fantastically in population. If not, the USA's enormous amateur population makes us the de-facto 800 pound gorilla in the region. Can't we all just get along? King Kong made it to the top of the Empire State building, then had a big fall. You might say Kong "went ape" when he couldn't get what he wanted. I thought he wanted the pretty girl? So does King Jim. Maybe if he shaves all over...? Helluva big disposal problem for NYC. The same for the fantasies of all those morsemen who want their private little playground at the expense of others. Well, those guys are biodegradeable also... No sharing of spectrum? Not for the elite morsemen extras. In either case, the IARU member society for the USA is...the ARRL. Which is why it's so important to keep movers and shakers like Carl out of the organization's management. God rest ye, league gentlemen, let nothing you dismay... I suspect that Carl will "serve in other ways." ;^)) He already is and has...with the pros. Oooops, I said a nasty in this group of morsemen...! |
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KØHB wrote: wrote But in the "real world", that would boil down to a bunch of appointed experts going into the proverbial smoky back room and coming up with a bandplan that would have the force of law in the USA. "Smoky back room"? Yes, Hans, "smoky back room". Guess I should have included the "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE = ON" indicator for that one, because you missed the point. My bad. Look at how the ARRL is perceived by some hams, just for producing *proposals*. Like the "regulation by bandwidth" thing. The ARRL Board is frequently accused of "smoky back room" behavior - and tney're elected! Do you think an unelected IARU committee would fare any better? If an IARU committee were given the power to make bandplans that became the defacto regulations, can't you hear the shouting? Aren't you the evenhanded/non-biased wordsmith now?!?!? Classic case of "don't confuse me with new ideas that I didn't think of".NIH in spades. Guys like you are why Amateur Radio is stuck in the 1940's. I simply disagree with the idea that "market forces" should set bandplans. We've seen what happens when some things are not adequately regulated. 73 de Jim, N2EY |
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wrote in message ups.com... KØHB wrote: wrote But in the "real world", that would boil down to a bunch of appointed experts going into the proverbial smoky back room and coming up with a bandplan that would have the force of law in the USA. "Smoky back room"? Yes, Hans, "smoky back room". Guess I should have included the "DEVIL'S ADVOCATE = ON" indicator for that one, because you missed the point. My bad. Look at how the ARRL is perceived by some hams, just for producing *proposals*. ............ Do you think an unelected IARU committee would fare any better? If an IARU committee were given the power to make bandplans that became the defacto regulations, can't you hear the shouting? Sure there'd be shouting! Hell, there are people still shouting here on rrap about how the old "Class A" guys were hurt by the "Great Giveaway" back over a half century ago. Let em shout! We've seen what happens when some things are not adequately regulated. But more than that, we've seen what happens when some things are over-regulated. No competition generally brings stagnation, resistance to progressive initiatives, and eventual marginalization. Like what's happening to ARRL and Amateur Radio. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
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