"john wilson" wrote in message
...
It's called private property. Malls and shopping centers are on private
property and can establish whatever rules they wish regarding the use of
cellphones, radios, etc. If you don't like it move on. If you want to
enter the premises, leave the radios in the car. In addition to concern
regarding a radio's use for shoplifting is the concern of comparison
shopping. My son had a summer job at a Target Store in the mall and knew
of
more than one employee who was sent to Walmart to compare prices using an
HT. Not a good idea. However, I have been in Circuit City using my HT
and
talking through our local 444.275 mhz. repeater and had no problems. It
just depends on who allows what where.

wrote:

p.s. I did not steal these FRS radios. I bought them legally, and have
had them probably over a week now.

They were advertised as to keep in touch witg yur family (and locate
each other) at shoppng malls and parks.

of course, when you go to a shopping mall, you usually shop, and since
these radios were advertised for to be used at shopping malls,

it never even crossed my mind that just having them (turned off, not
transmitting, just having them) would set off the theft alarms of every
single store in the mall that I went into and out of both when I went in
and when I went out.

until. it happened to me today.

I did not have anything else with me that would have set off the theft
alarms, and I did not try to steal anything from any store.

The alarms must have detected the metal and went off when they did so.

So I imagine anyone carrying just a regular handheld scanner they have
to listen to would also acidentally set them off.

My purpose was communications since the radio I had was advetrised to be
used at the mall for personal communications with famly (to locate each
other when we're ready to leave).

Whose at fault here? The stores and mall or the radio manufacturers or
the FCC for allowing it (FRS) to be used for that purpose and promoting
it to be used that for purpose?

They'll all probably blame each other.

What I do know however, is that this can cause some very serious trouble
and very serious problems with people. such as

Theft alarms going off when people didn't steal anything and are just
legally carrying their FRS radios and getting picked up by mall security
and police for it, even if they didn't transmit anything. and were using
it the way it was intended to and advertised as.

Theft alarms going off when Liscened GMRS users are just carrying their
radios and getting picked up by mall security and police for it, even if
they didn't transmit anything, and were using it the way it was intended
to and advertised as.

Mall security and police going to a store where the theft allarm went
off because of a FRS user or liscened GMRS user just having their radio
with them, to be used as intended, while a real burglarly happens at a
different store in the same mall and all the security personnel and
police are at the store with the FRS or GMRS user because the theft
alarms went off just from the FRS user or GMRS user having their radio
with them. (not even transmitting anything).




Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect than
does a non licensed device.

Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.


With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the alarms at
the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on reradiation of
harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the phone did just that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from her
register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector, it
beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved. There is
no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ

Happens all the time. Seen it with phones and radios alike. The door entry
card my company uses sets off Walgreen Pharmacy, Burlington Coat Factory,
and Macy's almost 100% of the time. Its doesn't happen in other stores. I
assume its related to the brand and model of loss prevention systems they
use. Most of these systems use a concept called "RF tags", where a small
resonant circuit inside the inventory control tag resonates and responds
with the "right" code and sets off the alarm. Its powered by induction, or
the electromagnetic field generated by the sensors near the door. Sort of an
advanced version of moving a coil around a magnet to generate a current.

Door entry cards of this type (not to be confused with ones you have to
"swipe" like a credit card) use a technology similar to RF tags, but a bit
more complex. It allows the card to be read simply by being near the touch
plate. I've concluded that it sets off store systems because the card's
circuit is activated by the store's inventory control sensors and the system
is too dumb to tell the difference between my card and a inventory tag. To
avoid setting these off, I just try and remember to leve my id at home or in
the car, or if I forget, I hold it over my head as a I walk in (though I
admit that does attract some funny "looks").


"nana" wrote in message
...

Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.


With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the alarms
at the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on reradiation of
harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the phone did just
that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from
her register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector, it
beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved. There
is no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ

Mmmmmmm Haaaaaaaaam....sweet juicy haaaaammmm.
I've had my wheelchair set of detectors in stores. Big masses of metal
coiled wire seem to do it. I remember it happening as I was leaving a
radio shack after buying a roll of cable wire. There were no tags on it
it was just the amount of metal that set up the response. But I still
Like ham and can't see how a chunk of tasty meat would set off the
alarms.

nana wrote:
Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.



With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the alarms at
the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on reradiation of
harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the phone did just that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from her
register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector, it
beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved. There is
no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ

nana wrote:
Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.



With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the alarms at
the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on reradiation of
harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the phone did just that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from her
register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector, it
beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved. There is
no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ



A friend of mine plucked one of those anti-theft plastic doohickeys from
a high-ticket item and stuck it onto the back of my belt and I set off
the detector over and over again as I walked through the exit door.

Some friend.

I wish I had thought of it.

what would happen if you stuck a security tag on your shoe, set off the
beeper, and refuse to voluntarily accompany security personnel to their
backroom for an 'interview' saying you didn't take anything and you're in a
hurry, causing them to physicaly manhandle you into the office where they
search you (if that was what they did) and find nothing. Assuming they
don't find out you engineered the whole scenario, do you think you would be
able to sue them? would they want to settle out of court? anyone have any
thoughts on this?

"Dave Bushong" wrote in message
...
nana wrote:
Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.



With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the alarms
at the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on reradiation of
harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the phone did just
that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from
her register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector, it
beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved. There
is no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ



A friend of mine plucked one of those anti-theft plastic doohickeys from a
high-ticket item and stuck it onto the back of my belt and I set off the
detector over and over again as I walked through the exit door.

Some friend.

I wish I had thought of it.

Then they replay the camera videos, catch you in the act, call the police
and have you charged for causing public mischief, or banned from their
store.
nana

"Tom H" wrote in message
news:0WBEd.45565$8l.26799@pd7tw1no...
what would happen if you stuck a security tag on your shoe, set off the
beeper, and refuse to voluntarily accompany security personnel to their
backroom for an 'interview' saying you didn't take anything and you're in
a hurry, causing them to physicaly manhandle you into the office where
they search you (if that was what they did) and find nothing. Assuming
they don't find out you engineered the whole scenario, do you think you
would be able to sue them? would they want to settle out of court?
anyone have any thoughts on this?

"Dave Bushong" wrote in message
...
nana wrote:
Lets not forget, an amateur license carries a higher degree of respect
than does a non licensed device.



With whom? Most people still have no accurate idea what a Ham is!

In regards to this ancient thread - my cellphone has triggered the
alarms at the checkouts more than once. These alarms relied on
reradiation of harmonics and perhaps some non-linear device within the
phone did just that.

The store did not go into an anti-theft frenzy. The girl looked up from
her register, I took my phone off my belt, waved it past the detector,
it beeped, I walked through after it, it didn't beep, problem solved.
There is no big issue here.

Brad VK2QQ



A friend of mine plucked one of those anti-theft plastic doohickeys from
a high-ticket item and stuck it onto the back of my belt and I set off
the detector over and over again as I walked through the exit door.

Some friend.

I wish I had thought of it.

In article 0WBEd.45565$8l.26799@pd7tw1no, "Tom H"
wrote:

what would happen if you stuck a security tag on your shoe, set off the
beeper, and refuse to voluntarily accompany security personnel to their
backroom for an 'interview' saying you didn't take anything and you're in a
hurry, causing them to physicaly manhandle you into the office where they
search you (if that was what they did) and find nothing. Assuming they
don't find out you engineered the whole scenario, do you think you would be
able to sue them? would they want to settle out of court? anyone have any
thoughts on this?

A better question is what would happen if you refused to let the clerk
at the door inspect your bag on the way out even when alarms don't go
off.

Most electronics stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) where I live
station someone at the exit and ask each person to see their receipt as
they walk out.

What if you refuse?

You haven't stolen anything so there's no legal basis for them to detain
you in any way.

And once you tender payment at the register and the money passes from
your hand to theirs (or your account to theirs), the merchandise is no
longer even their property-- it's yours-- so they have no legal claim to
inspect it.

The most they can do is say that you're not complying with their rules
on their private property so you're trespassing but the remedy for
trespassing is to demand the person leave the premises, which is what
you were doing when the whole thing started in the first place.

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...
In article 0WBEd.45565$8l.26799@pd7tw1no, "Tom H"
wrote:

what would happen if you stuck a security tag on your shoe, set off the
beeper, and refuse to voluntarily accompany security personnel to their
backroom for an 'interview' saying you didn't take anything and you're in
a
hurry, causing them to physicaly manhandle you into the office where they
search you (if that was what they did) and find nothing. Assuming they
don't find out you engineered the whole scenario, do you think you would
be
able to sue them? would they want to settle out of court? anyone have
any
thoughts on this?

A better question is what would happen if you refused to let the clerk
at the door inspect your bag on the way out even when alarms don't go
off.

Most electronics stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) where I live
station someone at the exit and ask each person to see their receipt as
they walk out.

What if you refuse?

You haven't stolen anything so there's no legal basis for them to detain
you in any way.

That's the point of the check, people have walked out with lawn mowers and
television sets. They are bold and deceptive and dishonest. Just because you
have a receipt for three items, doesn't mean you couldn't have stolen
another two items.

It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere stating the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want to kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

I understand all these "what if" scenarios, but WHY would you want to make a
complete ass of yourself, make yourself known as a troublemaker, get
yourself banned from these stores and besmirch your reputation? Do you have
too much money or too much time on your hands?

Really, these "what if" things are quite stupid.

Nana

In article , "nana"
wrote:

"BTR1701" wrote in message
...
In article 0WBEd.45565$8l.26799@pd7tw1no, "Tom H"
wrote:

what would happen if you stuck a security tag on your shoe, set off the
beeper, and refuse to voluntarily accompany security personnel to their
backroom for an 'interview' saying you didn't take anything and you're in
a hurry, causing them to physicaly manhandle you into the office where they
search you (if that was what they did) and find nothing. Assuming they
don't find out you engineered the whole scenario, do you think you would
be able to sue them? would they want to settle out of court? anyone have
any thoughts on this?

A better question is what would happen if you refused to let the clerk
at the door inspect your bag on the way out even when alarms don't go
off.

Most electronics stores (Best Buy, Circuit City, etc.) where I live
station someone at the exit and ask each person to see their receipt as
they walk out.

What if you refuse?

You haven't stolen anything so there's no legal basis for them to detain
you in any way.

That's the point of the check, people have walked out with lawn mowers and
television sets. They are bold and deceptive and dishonest. Just because you
have a receipt for three items, doesn't mean you couldn't have stolen
another two items.

It is a condition of entry and there will be a Notice somewhere stating the
fact. If you do not wish to comply, then don't go in. Since you want to kick
up a fuss, they can ban you from the store.

Sure, but they can't detain me at the time and inspect the receipt/bag
if I don't want them to. The most they can do is ask me to leave, which
as I said, is what I was doing in the first place.