james wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 10:38:16 -0800, "wavetrapper" wrote:

+++Having observed issues and changes in recent years, I think the
+++question that has to be asked at some point is whether or not the ARRL
+++should continue to attempt to influence rules, laws, etc. The money
+++that they have to be spending on legal efforts, lobbying, etc has got
+++to be significant. I think any objective observer would conclude that
+++their ability to influence legislation, FCC rules, etc in recent years
+++has been pretty dismal. Earlier in their history, the ARRL had the
+++ability to do this. Times change. In today's world, the Imperial FCC
+++chooses to do what it wants to do, selectively uses public comments
+++that support their pre-determined outcomes, fails to enforce its own
+++rules and is happy ignore factual data or public sentiment in the
+++process. Resources may be better spent in providing new and different
+++services to members rather than flush it down the commode under the
+++banner of "fighting city hall."
+++
+++Russ
+++K3Pi
***********
The FCC does as Congress dictates. Remember COngress holds the purse
strings for the FCC as well as the power to remove and appoint
commisioners. The FCC is an extension of Congress.

james


Sorry James;

Congress does hold the purse strings as well as the abililty to enact
laws which the FCC has to enforce. The President appoints commissioners
and the Senate confirms the appointment. The President can request the
resignation of any official in government but can only fire a few.

Dave N

On Feb 13, 4:32�pm, "David G. Nagel" wrote:
james wrote:
On 13 Feb 2007 10:38:16 -0800, "wavetrapper" wrote:

+++Having observed issues and changes in recent years, I think the
+++question that has to be asked at some point is whether or not the ARRL
+++should continue to attempt to influence rules, laws, etc. *The money
+++that they have to be spending on legal efforts, lobbying, etc has got
+++to be significant. *I think any objective observer would conclude that
+++their ability to influence legislation, FCC rules, etc in recent years
+++has been pretty dismal. *Earlier in their history, the ARRL had the
+++ability to do this. *Times change. *In today's world, the Imperial FCC
+++chooses to do what it wants to do, selectively uses public comments
+++that support their pre-determined outcomes, fails to enforce its own
+++rules and is happy ignore factual data or public sentiment in the
+++process. *Resources may be better spent in providing new and different
+++services to members rather than flush it down the commode under the
+++banner of "fighting city hall."
+++
+++Russ
+++K3Pi
***********
The FCC does as Congress dictates. Remember COngress holds the purse
strings for the FCC as well as the power to remove and appoint
commisioners. The FCC is an extension of Congress.

james

Sorry James;

Congress does hold the purse strings as well as the abililty to enact
laws which the FCC has to enforce. The President appoints commissioners
and the Senate confirms the appointment. The President can request the
resignation of any official in government but can only fire a few.

Dave N

The FCC has released its latest operating budget listing over
its web page. Anyone who cares to can go check it out.

The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. Otherwise we
"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
"non-profit" organization.

LA

"james" wrote in message
...
On 12 Feb 2007 21:28:11 -0800, "
wrote:

+++On Feb 12, 4:35?pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:
+++ "policy-ham" wrote in message
+++
+++ oups.com...
+++
+++ Found on qrz.com. he ARRL now only wants only no code hams. And as
+++ for the rest of us?
+++
+++ Not true what you say about the ARRL. Amateur radio is only as good
as the
+++ effort you put into it. If you can't do code, you cannot communicate
with a
+++ huge subset of the amateur population. That is a fact. You never will
be
+++ able to so until your learn code, FCC requirement or no FCC
requirement.
+++ There is some DX you will never get, some countries you may never
contact,
+++ many people you will never meet.
+++
+++ Some no-coders sound like the gay rights lobby: They seem to be
trying to
+++ make no-code the "norm". "I want you to think I am normal". "I am as
just
+++ good as you, I can do HF now, I can be a real 'Ham'". (Gays can get
+++ "married"). True by regulation, but not really in practice.
+++
+++ In the foreseeable future you will never truly be a ham until you can
QSO in
+++ code; you will only hold a piece of paper authorizing you to
communicate on
+++ HF. Don't shoot the messanger. Don't bother disagreeing with me; it
is the
+++ large subset of the amateur base that you have to convince and,
+++ unfortunately, that will take a while to change IF it ever does
change. When
+++ people are sick of SSB QRM or we cannot QSO by voice due to
conditions, we
+++ can simply move to the CW sub-bands and you are left "holding the
mike".
+++
+++ As Walter Cronkite used to say. "That's the way it is..." February
23, 2007.
+++
+++ Hello? This is February 12, 2007. FACTUAL ERROR!!!
+++
+++ There's one little problem, "Stefan." Isn't ANY "Stefan Wolfe"
+++ in the FCC CORES database. The best that can be found
+++ are two Steven Wolfes:
+++
+++ Steven H. Wolfe, KC4UZW, Tech, FRN 0004408340
+++ Steven B. Wolfe, KC9KTN, Tech, FRN 0016067183
+++
+++ www.qrz.com confirms that.
+++
+++ The only "CW sub-bands" that Techs have is a small
+++ sliver on the bottom of two VHF ham bands. Of course,
+++ all other classes can use those. shrug So?
+++
+++
+++
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&

Only giving back which was taken away. In a land far far away and
along time ago Techs had some CW priviledge on 2 and 6 meter CW if my
senile memory has not forgotten me.

james

Technicians had and have CW privileges on VHF and UHF whether or not they
passed the code. While there are small slivers of 2m and 6m that are
exclusively CW, it can be used anywhere above 30mHz by all licensees of
Technician or higher. Technicians have ALL privileges above 30mHz.

Dee, N8UZE

wrote:

The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. Otherwise we
"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
"non-profit" organization.

LA

OK, no problem, assume everything you say is true.

1) Is that bad? Is it any different than the NRA or any other hobby
organization?

2) What alternative to the ARRL do you suggest?

On Feb 13, 10:49 pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
wrote:
The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. Otherwise we
"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
"non-profit" organization.

LA

OK, no problem, assume everything you say is true.

1) Is that bad? Is it any different than the NRA or any other hobby
organization?

good bad not the issue

the ARRL's suportor insist that is not the way it it is with the ARRL

2) What alternative to the ARRL do you suggest?

On Feb 13, 7:49�pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
wrote:
* *The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
* *despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
* *"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
* *The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
* *of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. *Otherwise we
* *"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
* *"non-profit" organization.

* *LA

OK, no problem, assume everything you say is true.

There WAS a website (webmaster is a ham) that DID
post ARRL IRS returns. I footnoted that in one of my
Comments to the FCC. Have to look it up on the CD
holding those documents but anyone can access it if
it is still up and running.

1) Is that bad? Is it any different than the NRA or any other hobby
organization?

The National Recovery Act is still going on?!? :-)

2) What alternative to the ARRL do you suggest?

"Alternative?" You want an instant alternative?

The ARRL was incorporated in 1914. That's 83 years
ago. The league was able to squash its competition
in the ancient days by good PR work. I admire them
for their chutzpah in that.

From my observation the ARRL just got to believing
its own "sins of omissions of the truth" that it lost
sight of its original aims (other than being a local
telegraph service hacker)...then got the inner circle
of its staff to think they were all there through some
odd "divine right." It is only a fraternal order and a
publisher.

Ain't no equivalent national organization in the USA
now that could compete on equal terms with them.
However, that is NO reason (logically) for them to
think they are Top Dog just because they don't have
the competition. Its Believers do, but then they have
drifted off the mainstream into an emotional attachment
to fraternalistic orders.

Awwwwwwww, it sounds like the little boy needs a teething ring after he
realizes that he has to share his playplace with others.





policy-ham wrote:

Found on qrz.com. The ARRL now only wants only no code hams. And as
for the rest of us?

W1AW Special Event, Midnight Exam Sessions to Mark New Amateur Rules

NEWINGTON, CT, Feb 9, 2007 -- As new Amateur Radio Service rules phase
in Friday, February 23, eliminating the Morse code requirement, Hiram
Percy Maxim Memorial Station W1AW will mark the milestone with a
weekend-long special event. In addition, a number of Central
Connecticut volunteer examiners will be on hand at ARRL Headquarters
-- both before and after the new rules become effective at 12:01 AM
EST -- to offer Amateur Radio examinations under both the current and
new rules. ARRL Regulatory Information Specialist Dan Henderson, N1ND,
is helping to coordinate the celebration. He says Headquarters staff
and other volunteers will keep W1AW active for the "Welcome Weekend"
event.

"W1AW will be on the air all weekend for this special event to
celebrate the fact that so many amateurs have gained or will earn new
privileges as a result of the rule changes," he said. "The station
will operate starting at 12:01 AM Eastern Time on Friday, February 23,
continuing into the wee hours and resuming operation during the day.
Then W1AW will be on the air on both days of the weekend, from 10 AM
until 5 PM -- perhaps longer as conditions and enthusiasm dictate."

Operation will be on both SSB and CW. W1AW operators will concentrate
their activities on the Technician and General class HF subbands. On
SSB, the station will use its normal phone frequencies -- 1.855,
3.990, 7.290, 14.290, 18.160 and 21.390 MHz. On 10 meters, W1AW will
operate SSB on or about 28.480 MHz.

Henderson says operating will be casual unless pileups develop. "The
purpose is to welcome newcomers to new privileges," he said.

"First Contact" certificates will be available as part of this event.
ARRL invites anyone making a first contact or first HF contact to
enter the contact information on the ARRL "Welcome Weekend" Web site
and receive a certificate in return. "If the first contact is with
W1AW we will also be including a W1AW QSL card for the contact,"
Henderson added.

The ARRL anticipates a huge influx of upgrade applications once the
Morse code requirement disappears. In addition, all Technician
licensees will have limited HF privileges starting February 23,
whether or not they've passed a Morse code test.

Amateur Radio exam sessions both before and after the zero hour will
offer an opportunity for applicants either to upgrade under the
outgoing licensing rules at the last possible opportunity or under the
new licensing rules at the first possible opportunity.

"Dual exam sessions are scheduled at ARRL Headquarters around the
effective time of the new licensing rules," says Brennan Price, N4QX,
a former ARRL staff member and an ARRL VEC volunteer examiner. "At 11
PM on February 22, a session will be held for candidates wishing to
upgrade under the existing rules. A few folks have expressed interest
in such a session." Price says all Amateur Radio written and
telegraphy elements will be offered until midnight.

"At 12:01 AM February 23, a second session will begin under the new
licensing rules," he said. "Examiners will not only be evaluating
previously earned Certificates of Successful Completion of Exam
(CSCEs) for upgrades, but will be offering all written elements." Two
teams of volunteer examiners will be on site until all applicants have
been served.

On or after February 23, applicants upgrading on the basis of a valid
CSCE must present the certificate for element credit, fill out an
application and pay any applicable exam session fee, which most VECs
charge. Only after the VE team has issued a CSCE for upgrade credit
may applicants actually use their new operating privileges on the air.

Additional Welcome Weekend information will be available on the ARRL
Web site in the days leading up to February 23.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2007 21:40:01 -0500, "Dee Flint"
wrote:

+++
+++"james" wrote in message
m...
+++ On 12 Feb 2007 21:28:11 -0800, "
+++ wrote:
+++
++++++On Feb 12, 4:35?pm, "Stefan Wolfe" wrote:
++++++ "policy-ham" wrote in message
++++++
++++++ oups.com...
++++++
++++++ Found on qrz.com. he ARRL now only wants only no code hams. And as
++++++ for the rest of us?
++++++
++++++ Not true what you say about the ARRL. Amateur radio is only as good
+++as the
++++++ effort you put into it. If you can't do code, you cannot communicate
+++with a
++++++ huge subset of the amateur population. That is a fact. You never will
+++be
++++++ able to so until your learn code, FCC requirement or no FCC
+++requirement.
++++++ There is some DX you will never get, some countries you may never
+++contact,
++++++ many people you will never meet.
++++++
++++++ Some no-coders sound like the gay rights lobby: They seem to be
+++trying to
++++++ make no-code the "norm". "I want you to think I am normal". "I am as
+++just
++++++ good as you, I can do HF now, I can be a real 'Ham'". (Gays can get
++++++ "married"). True by regulation, but not really in practice.
++++++
++++++ In the foreseeable future you will never truly be a ham until you can
+++QSO in
++++++ code; you will only hold a piece of paper authorizing you to
+++communicate on
++++++ HF. Don't shoot the messanger. Don't bother disagreeing with me; it
+++is the
++++++ large subset of the amateur base that you have to convince and,
++++++ unfortunately, that will take a while to change IF it ever does
+++change. When
++++++ people are sick of SSB QRM or we cannot QSO by voice due to
+++conditions, we
++++++ can simply move to the CW sub-bands and you are left "holding the
+++mike".
++++++
++++++ As Walter Cronkite used to say. "That's the way it is..." February
+++23, 2007.
++++++
++++++ Hello? This is February 12, 2007. FACTUAL ERROR!!!
++++++
++++++ There's one little problem, "Stefan." Isn't ANY "Stefan Wolfe"
++++++ in the FCC CORES database. The best that can be found
++++++ are two Steven Wolfes:
++++++
++++++ Steven H. Wolfe, KC4UZW, Tech, FRN 0004408340
++++++ Steven B. Wolfe, KC9KTN, Tech, FRN 0016067183
++++++
++++++ www.qrz.com confirms that.
++++++
++++++ The only "CW sub-bands" that Techs have is a small
++++++ sliver on the bottom of two VHF ham bands. Of course,
++++++ all other classes can use those. shrug So?
++++++
++++++
++++++
+++ &&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
+++
+++ Only giving back which was taken away. In a land far far away and
+++ along time ago Techs had some CW priviledge on 2 and 6 meter CW if my
+++ senile memory has not forgotten me.
+++
+++ james
+++
+++Technicians had and have CW privileges on VHF and UHF whether or not they
+++passed the code. While there are small slivers of 2m and 6m that are
+++exclusively CW, it can be used anywhere above 30mHz by all licensees of
+++Technician or higher. Technicians have ALL privileges above 30mHz.
+++
+++Dee, N8UZE
+++
Back in the 60s Novices had a small part of the 2 M band also.

james

wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:49�pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
wrote:
� �The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
� �despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
� �"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
� �The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
� �of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. �Otherwise we
� �"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
� �"non-profit" organization.
� �LA
OK, no problem, assume everything you say is true.

There WAS a website (webmaster is a ham) that DID
post ARRL IRS returns. I footnoted that in one of my
Comments to the FCC. Have to look it up on the CD
holding those documents but anyone can access it if
it is still up and running.

1) Is that bad? Is it any different than the NRA or any other hobby
organization?

The National Recovery Act is still going on?!? :-)

2) What alternative to the ARRL do you suggest?

"Alternative?" You want an instant alternative?

The ARRL was incorporated in 1914. That's 83 years
ago. The league was able to squash its competition
in the ancient days by good PR work. I admire them
for their chutzpah in that.

From my observation the ARRL just got to believing
its own "sins of omissions of the truth" that it lost
sight of its original aims (other than being a local
telegraph service hacker)...then got the inner circle
of its staff to think they were all there through some
odd "divine right." It is only a fraternal order and a
publisher.

Ain't no equivalent national organization in the USA
now that could compete on equal terms with them.
However, that is NO reason (logically) for them to
think they are Top Dog just because they don't have
the competition. Its Believers do, but then they have
drifted off the mainstream into an emotional attachment
to fraternalistic orders.




Lee, thanks for the explanation...although as a pragmatist, the ARRL,
for better or worse, IS the only game in town. They are certainly not
perfect, but then, who of us are?

As to their "non-profit" status, whatever that means, I am not sure what
problem you see with that (if any).

I did some research and, as you say, their IRS returns are on the web.
Additionally, their *AUDITED* Annual Report is on the ARRL web site for
the world to see. Granted, since Enron, audits aren't all they were
cracked up to be, but that is a national issue, nothing unique to the ARRL.

Carter-k8vt wrote:
wrote:
On Feb 13, 7:49�pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:
wrote:
� �The ARRL never reveals its budget plans to the public,
� �despite all its Believers' claims that it is handled in a
� �"democratic fashion" AS IF it were an arm of the guvmint.
� �The best one can hope for is someone else getting copies
� �of its IRS Returns and publicizes those. �Otherwise we
� �"common folk" would never know its a multi-million dollar
� �"non-profit" organization.
� �LA
OK, no problem, assume everything you say is true.

There WAS a website (webmaster is a ham) that DID
post ARRL IRS returns. I footnoted that in one of my
Comments to the FCC. Have to look it up on the CD
holding those documents but anyone can access it if
it is still up and running.

1) Is that bad? Is it any different than the NRA or any other hobby
organization?

The National Recovery Act is still going on?!? :-)

2) What alternative to the ARRL do you suggest?

"Alternative?" You want an instant alternative?

The ARRL was incorporated in 1914. That's 83 years
ago. The league was able to squash its competition
in the ancient days by good PR work. I admire them
for their chutzpah in that.

From my observation the ARRL just got to believing
its own "sins of omissions of the truth" that it lost
sight of its original aims (other than being a local
telegraph service hacker)...then got the inner circle
of its staff to think they were all there through some
odd "divine right." It is only a fraternal order and a
publisher.

Ain't no equivalent national organization in the USA
now that could compete on equal terms with them.
However, that is NO reason (logically) for them to
think they are Top Dog just because they don't have
the competition. Its Believers do, but then they have
drifted off the mainstream into an emotional attachment
to fraternalistic orders.




Lee, thanks for the explanation...although as a pragmatist, the ARRL,
for better or worse, IS the only game in town. They are certainly not
perfect, but then, who of us are?

As to their "non-profit" status, whatever that means, I am not sure what
problem you see with that (if any).

I did some research and, as you say, their IRS returns are on the web.
Additionally, their *AUDITED* Annual Report is on the ARRL web site for
the world to see. Granted, since Enron, audits aren't all they were
cracked up to be, but that is a national issue, nothing unique to the ARRL.
Oooops, pardon the fumble fingers. That should be "Len"...