"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
OK, I went to radio-locator.com and found that there are 16 AM stations
with moderate to very strong signal levels in my area and I pickup many
more during the daytime in my small town 60 miles north of LA.

In ZIP Code 9303 there are only 4 AM stations that put a 10 mv/m or stronger
over the area... 1590, 1520, 910 and 1450.

Between 5 mv/m and 10, there are three: 1400 from Santa Paula and KFI and
KNX from LA, brought in mostly by the nice salt water path.

David Eduardo wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

The example you made of KOXR is deceptive. Inland is sparsely populated
being mountainous or farmland with most people living near the coast.

It is still part of the market, as sparsely populated as it may be.

These 16 AM stations are moderately strong to very strong. They all come
in interference free on the home and car radios. I don't put up with
noise and interference either. I'm 60 miles north of one of the big
markets. Try again.

Sorry, but extensive research on literally hundreds of thousands of
individual listeners shows that outside the 10 mv/m in medium metros and
ever greater signals in big ones, there is essentially no listening to AM
stations.

I don't have a problem getting many weaker stations either except when a
station running that digital crap covers them up.

Yeah, I can often get Kota Kinabalu on 1475... that does not mean anyone
listens to them in LA.

Often? I realize they are probably running 700 kW or so, but *often*?

The guys in Grayland will be impressed.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 04:42:22 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
OK, I went to radio-locator.com and found that there are 16 AM stations
with moderate to very strong signal levels in my area and I pickup many
more during the daytime in my small town 60 miles north of LA.

The radio-locator maps are labeled "for amusement purposes only."

Listening of a quantifiable (as opposed to "occasional") nature occurs about
20% INSIDE the innermost red contour in radio-locator. This is proven in
market after market, on AM and FM, based on overlaying listening maps on
coverage contours.

While you can "hear" many stations if you set out to find them, the average
listener does not put up with anything but a strong, interference free
signal... that means about 10 mv/m or more in a metro on AM and about 64 dbu
on FM.

Ventura / Oxnard is not even a top 100 market, anyway. But not a single one
of the local stations (KOXR having the best signal day and night) even
covers, usefully, 50% of the county.

You really need to lose the numbers, pal. People listen to signals
where they can get them, even if Arbitron doesn't care about them.
The FCC is supposed to protect their service, not help you make more
money.

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

The example you made of KOXR is deceptive. Inland is sparsely populated
being mountainous or farmland with most people living near the coast.

It is still part of the market, as sparsely populated as it may be.

These 16 AM stations are moderately strong to very strong. They all
come
in interference free on the home and car radios. I don't put up with
noise and interference either. I'm 60 miles north of one of the big
markets. Try again.

Sorry, but extensive research on literally hundreds of thousands of
individual listeners shows that outside the 10 mv/m in medium metros and
ever greater signals in big ones, there is essentially no listening to AM
stations.

I don't have a problem getting many weaker stations either except when
a
station running that digital crap covers them up.

Yeah, I can often get Kota Kinabalu on 1475... that does not mean anyone
listens to them in LA.

Often? I realize they are probably running 700 kW or so, but *often*?

Even back when I lived in Phoenix in the 70's, 1475 was the bellwether
station for openings to the Pacific. I would say that in the September to
May period, it was detectable at least 75% of nights, and readable half of
those.

On the coast, it's so regular I don't keep track.

This is somewhat tike 935 from Morocco in the 60's in the East and
near-Midwest. Hearing it was no more unusual than haring WSM, and a good
indication of conditions in the Mediterranean: it was 24/7 for Ramadan,
meaning you could use it to predict reception of Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the
northern Africans in general, as well as Spain and Portugal.

Similarly, in the 60's in the East, KORL on 650 around 2 to 3 AM EST was an
indication of the potential for Australia and NZ reception.

You obviously do not know much about MW DX, or you would know that 1475 is
so common it has near-pest status.

"David" wrote in message
news
On Tue, 13 Mar 2007 04:42:22 GMT, "David Eduardo"
wrote:


"Telamon" wrote in message
news:telamon_spamshield-
OK, I went to radio-locator.com and found that there are 16 AM stations
with moderate to very strong signal levels in my area and I pickup many
more during the daytime in my small town 60 miles north of LA.

The radio-locator maps are labeled "for amusement purposes only."

Listening of a quantifiable (as opposed to "occasional") nature occurs
about
20% INSIDE the innermost red contour in radio-locator. This is proven in
market after market, on AM and FM, based on overlaying listening maps on
coverage contours.

While you can "hear" many stations if you set out to find them, the
average
listener does not put up with anything but a strong, interference free
signal... that means about 10 mv/m or more in a metro on AM and about 64
dbu
on FM.

Ventura / Oxnard is not even a top 100 market, anyway. But not a single
one
of the local stations (KOXR having the best signal day and night) even
covers, usefully, 50% of the county.

You really need to lose the numbers, pal. People listen to signals
where they can get them, even if Arbitron doesn't care about them.
The FCC is supposed to protect their service, not help you make more
money.

A. Arbitron shows whatever people say they listen to, irrespective of where
they are.
B. The signals you are griping about are outside the protected contours, and
have no guarantee of lack of interference.
C. Commercial radio only exists in the US because stations make money. If
they did not, you would have a choice of religious stations and NPR.

"Brenda Ann" wrote:


Now Telemon, you KNOW he doesn't want to hear facts, he wants to live in his
little dream world where everything is just as he thinks it is.

There is hardly an AM station in the Portland, OR market that doesn't cover
the entire market in the daytime. Many of them (620, 750, 910, 970, 1080,
1190, 1520) cover a much larger area. 620, 750 and 1190 are heard from
Longview, WA to past Salem, OR. 620, 1080 and 1190 are heard pretty well on
the coast as well. And I'm not talking DX'ing, I used to listen to them on a
pocket transistor radio. The weakest signal of all in the area is 1230 in
Gresham, but even they had a good daytime signal as far as the west hills,
about 15 miles from their tower. 1390 in Salem is heard well in most of the
south end of Portland, and they're only 1KW. When I worked for Entercom, I
put up a directional loop on their studio building in SW Portland so they
could null out 1410, which was only a mile or so away. This was so they
could monitor the result of the microwave feed they were sending down there.

What was at the time 930 KSWB in Seaside was the most popular station in
Astoria, 21 miles away, against the two local Astoria stations. He's full
of crap when he says that nobody listens outside the market/local urban
area. That they don't show up in Arbitron is most likely a factor of
Arbitron not bothering with logging outside the primary signal.

And let's talk about FM's for just a second. A Salem station on 105.3 used
to be heard over most of Portland. They decided to up their audience a
little bit by moving their tower site to a point between Portland and Salem,
off to the east a bit from both, and now they're considered a city grade
contour for both cities and most places in between on the I-5 corridor. They
can be heard on a car stereo solidly as far south as Eugene. Basically what
they did to the station was turned it from a Salem local to a rimshotter and
made a big success of it.

Turn off the QRM, Gleason... we don't need it, don't want it. All it does is
cause problems for people who aren't inside your precious 'city grade
contour'.. and guy, that's a LOT of people. And we buy things. WE COUNT.


*applause*

(Quoted in its entirety intentionally.)

--
Eric F. Richards,
"It's the Din of iBiquity." -- Frank Dresser

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...


Now Telemon, you KNOW he doesn't want to hear facts, he wants to live in
his little dream world where everything is just as he thinks it is.

Unfortunately for this conclusion, there is a wealth of data which supports
my position and none supporting yours.

There is hardly an AM station in the Portland, OR market that doesn't
cover the entire market in the daytime.

Of course, my definition of an AM station being viable states that the
station must cover the entire market day and night. This is also the
standard definiton of broadcast analysts, appraisers and the industry in
general.

Many of them (620, 750, 910, 970, 1080, 1190, 1520) cover a much larger
area.

910, 1520 and 1080 do not cover the entire market at night, and 750 is
marginal.

In a northern latitude market, where for much of the year night ends several
hours into morning drive and starts well befor ethe end of afternoon drive,
not having night coverage of the whole market is mortal to a station.

620, 750 and 1190 are heard from Longview, WA to past Salem, OR. 620, 1080
and 1190 are heard pretty well on the coast as well. And I'm not talking
DX'ing, I used to listen to them on a pocket transistor radio.

Salem is not in the metro, nor is Longview. The real issue is if they give a
suable and useful signal in the market... one that overcomes the manmade
noise 95% or more of the time in all the metro.

What was at the time 930 KSWB in Seaside was the most popular station in
Astoria, 21 miles away, against the two local Astoria stations. He's full
of crap when he says that nobody listens outside the market/local urban
area. That they don't show up in Arbitron is most likely a factor of
Arbitron not bothering with logging outside the primary signal.

Actually, Arbitron "logs" nothing. Listeners write in whatever they listen
to, with no restrictions whatsoever. In fact the instructions say to write
down anything that "you listen to" on the radio, including satellite and
internet stations.l The Arbitron report shows "below the line" (a term
meaning not licensed in the metro) listening, but it is so minimal that you
don't see out of market stations ranked.

For all practical purposes, out of market listening is so minimal,
individually and collectively as to not be statistically significant or
reliable.

And let's talk about FM's for just a second. A Salem station on 105.3
used to be heard over most of Portland. They decided to up their audience
a little bit by moving their tower site to a point between Portland and
Salem, off to the east a bit from both, and now they're considered a city
grade contour for both cities and most places in between on the I-5
corridor. They can be heard on a car stereo solidly as far south as
Eugene. Basically what they did to the station was turned it from a Salem
local to a rimshotter and made a big success of it.

And that explains why it does not exist now?

Turn off the QRM, Gleason... we don't need it, don't want it. All it does
is cause problems for people who aren't inside your precious 'city grade
contour'.. and guy, that's a LOT of people. And we buy things. WE COUNT.

Again, there is no evidence that significant listening occurs outside fairly
intense contours. And since AM is now so little used at all, trying
alternatives that may give it additional life make sense. Otherwise, AM will
simply disappear... as it already has as a relevant service for nearly
everyone under 45 or 50 years of age.

Being able to hear a station does not mean it will get actual listening.
Listening requires a combination of factors, including a solid signal. It
helps if you are also on FM, too.

Just back from trying out for 'Prancing With the Stars', David Frackelton Gleason,
who poses as 'Eduardo', wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

The example you made of KOXR is deceptive. Inland is sparsely populated
being mountainous or farmland with most people living near the coast.

It is still part of the market, as sparsely populated as it may be.

These 16 AM stations are moderately strong to very strong. They all
come
in interference free on the home and car radios. I don't put up with
noise and interference either. I'm 60 miles north of one of the big
markets. Try again.

Sorry, but extensive research on literally hundreds of thousands of
individual listeners shows that outside the 10 mv/m in medium metros and
ever greater signals in big ones, there is essentially no listening to AM
stations.

I don't have a problem getting many weaker stations either except when
a
station running that digital crap covers them up.

Yeah, I can often get Kota Kinabalu on 1475... that does not mean anyone
listens to them in LA.

Often? I realize they are probably running 700 kW or so, but *often*?

Even back when I lived in Phoenix in the 70's, 1475 was the bellwether
station for openings to the Pacific. I would say that in the September to
May period, it was detectable at least 75% of nights, and readable half of
those.

On the coast, it's so regular I don't keep track.

This is somewhat tike 935 from Morocco in the 60's in the East and
near-Midwest. Hearing it was no more unusual than haring WSM, and a good
indication of conditions in the Mediterranean: it was 24/7 for Ramadan,
meaning you could use it to predict reception of Egypt, Saudi Arabia and the
northern Africans in general, as well as Spain and Portugal.

Similarly, in the 60's in the East, KORL on 650 around 2 to 3 AM EST was an
indication of the potential for Australia and NZ reception.

You obviously do not know much about MW DX, or you would know that 1475 is
so common it has near-pest status.

Pest status.... hmmmm, that seems to be what you've attained.

ROTFLMFAO at the fake Hispanic.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

On Mar 13, 7:19�am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...





For example, Washington DC does not have one viable AM station. Phoenix
has
two. Boston has, maybe, 3. Philadelphia has 3. Miami has one, and that is
a
stretch. Denver has 2. Chicago has 5, San Francisco has 4, San Diego has
2,
Dallas / Ft Worth has 3, Houston has, barely, 1, *Pittsburgh has 1,
Atlanta
has 1, Nashville has 1, Detroit has 2, etc., etc. As markets grow more
and
more to the suburbs, fewer and fewer stations are going to be viable.

OK, I went to radio-locator.com and found that there are 16 AM stations
with moderate to very strong signal levels in my area and I pickup many
more during the daytime in my small town 60 miles north of LA.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

Now Telemon, you KNOW he doesn't want to hear facts, he wants to live in his
little dream world where everything is just as he thinks it is.

There is hardly an AM station in the Portland, OR market that doesn't cover
the entire market in the daytime. Many of them (620, 750, 910, 970, 1080,
1190, 1520) cover a much larger area. 620, 750 and 1190 are heard from
Longview, WA to past Salem, OR. 620, 1080 and 1190 are heard pretty well on
the coast as well. And I'm not talking DX'ing, I used to listen to them on a
pocket transistor radio. The weakest signal of all in the area is 1230 in
Gresham, but even they had a good daytime signal as far as the west hills,
about 15 miles from their tower. 1390 in Salem is heard well in most of the
south end of Portland, and they're only 1KW. *When I worked for Entercom, I
put up a directional loop on their studio building in SW Portland so they
could null out 1410, which was only a mile or so away. *This was so they
could monitor the result of the microwave feed they were sending down there.

What was at the time 930 KSWB in Seaside was the most popular station in
Astoria, 21 miles away, against the two local Astoria stations. *He's full
of crap when he says that nobody listens outside the market/local urban
area. That they don't show up in Arbitron is most likely a factor of
Arbitron not bothering with logging outside the primary signal.

And let's talk about FM's for just a second. *A Salem station on 105.3 used
to be heard over most of Portland. They decided to up their audience a
little bit by moving their tower site to a point between Portland and Salem,
off to the east a bit from both, and now they're considered a city grade
contour for both cities and most places in between on the I-5 corridor. They
can be heard on a car stereo solidly as far south as Eugene. *Basically what
they did to the station was turned it from a Salem local to a rimshotter and
made a big success of it.

Turn off the QRM, Gleason... we don't need it, don't want it. All it does is
cause problems for people who aren't inside your precious 'city grade
contour'.. and guy, that's a LOT of people. And we buy things. WE COUNT.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Brenda Ann - you go get'em girl ! We sure do count, as that IBOC
shill is finding out, with few HD radios sold, and more-and-more
people complaining to people that count. I just complained to threee
AM stations today, in our area ! Let's get this ******* called, HD/
IBOC !

On Mar 13, 2:40�pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...



Now Telemon, you KNOW he doesn't want to hear facts, he wants to live in
his little dream world where everything is just as he thinks it is.

Unfortunately for this conclusion, there is a wealth of data which supports
my position and none supporting yours.



There is hardly an AM station in the Portland, OR market that doesn't
cover the entire market in the daytime.

Of course, my definition of an AM station being viable states that the
station must cover the entire market day and night. This is also the
standard definiton of broadcast analysts, appraisers and the industry in
general.

Many of them (620, 750, 910, 970, 1080, 1190, 1520) cover a much larger
area.

910, 1520 and 1080 do not cover the entire market at night, and 750 is
marginal.

In a northern latitude market, where for much of the year night ends several
hours into morning drive and starts well befor ethe end of afternoon drive,
not having night coverage of the whole market is mortal to a station.

620, 750 and 1190 are heard from Longview, WA to past Salem, OR. 620, 1080
and 1190 are heard pretty well on the coast as well. And I'm not talking
DX'ing, I used to listen to them on a pocket transistor radio.

Salem is not in the metro, nor is Longview. The real issue is if they give a
suable and useful signal in the market... one that overcomes the manmade
noise 95% or more of the time in all the metro.

What was at the time 930 KSWB in Seaside was the most popular station in
Astoria, 21 miles away, against the two local Astoria stations. *He's full
of crap when he says that nobody listens outside the market/local urban
area. That they don't show up in Arbitron is most likely a factor of
Arbitron not bothering with logging outside the primary signal.

Actually, Arbitron "logs" nothing. Listeners write in whatever they listen
to, with no restrictions whatsoever. In fact the instructions say to write
down anything that "you listen to" on the radio, including satellite and
internet stations.l The Arbitron report shows "below the line" (a term
meaning not licensed in the metro) listening, but it is so minimal that you
don't see out of market stations ranked.

For all practical purposes, out of market listening is so minimal,
individually and collectively as to not be statistically significant or
reliable.



And let's talk about FM's for just a second. *A Salem station on 105.3
used to be heard over most of Portland. They decided to up their audience
a little bit by moving their tower site to a point between Portland and
Salem, off to the east a bit from both, and now they're considered a city
grade contour for both cities and most places in between on the I-5
corridor. They can be heard on a car stereo solidly as far south as
Eugene. *Basically what they did to the station was turned it from a Salem
local to a rimshotter and made a big success of it.

And that explains why it does not exist now?



Turn off the QRM, Gleason... we don't need it, don't want it. All it does
is cause problems for people who aren't inside your precious 'city grade
contour'.. and guy, that's a LOT of people. And we buy things. WE COUNT.

Again, there is no evidence that significant listening occurs outside fairly
intense contours. And since AM is now so little used at all, trying
alternatives that may give it additional life make sense. Otherwise, AM will
simply disappear... as it already has as a relevant service for nearly
everyone under 45 or 50 years of age.

Being able to hear a station does not mean it will get actual listening.
Listening requires a combination of factors, including a solid signal. It
helps if you are also on FM, too.

HD/IBOC is doomed, ****-ball !