On Sep 11, 5:07 am, Steve wrote:

DXers may be one thin slice of the population, but the option to DX is
one that many people value, whether they (currently) DX very often or
not.

Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses. I am disappointed that DISH NETWORK and DIRECT TV are not
allowed, by law, to sell me a package with out-of-town stations
without my local stations agreeing, which they won't. I can spend
$1,000 for a large tv antenna installation and pick up many out-of-
town stations, but I can't subscribe to get those SAME stations on
satellite. The reason -- the industry does NOT want me (or anyone
else) watching out-of-town stations because that means I am not
watching the local stations with local commercials. I tried getting
waivers from the local stations and every one of them refused.

I have been both a radio and tv dxer for over 50 years and know the
fun and excitement this hobby has given me. MOST tv dxing is done on
channels 2 through 6. In 2009, looks like that hobby will be history.

) writes:

Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses. I am disappointed that DISH NETWORK and DIRECT TV are not
allowed, by law, to sell me a package with out-of-town stations
without my local stations agreeing, which they won't. I can spend
$1,000 for a large tv antenna installation and pick up many out-of-
town stations, but I can't subscribe to get those SAME stations on
satellite. The reason -- the industry does NOT want me (or anyone
else) watching out-of-town stations because that means I am not
watching the local stations with local commercials. I tried getting
waivers from the local stations and every one of them refused.

YOu see that all the time with AM broadcast radio. When the local
station dropped Art Bell some years back, moving to an all-news
format, one local columnist lamented that it was the end of Art
Bell.

But one station in Vermont carried it. And it's really easy to receive
that New York station at 770KHz that carried the show, along with all
kind of other stations up and down the dial.

Yet people never tuned up and down that dial, assuming that they'd not
be able to receive anything. And yes, that's what the local stations
want, because they want the listenership to their ads.

Oddly, a station like WBZ out of Boston even makes an issue of this.
I don't know about them lately, their reception here has been curtailed
by a more local station on an adjacent frequency, but at one point
they acknowledged that most overnight radio was syndicated, and basically
the same syndicated show, but they were live, and they covered a really
big area. The overnight announcers, maybe even the bumpers, made a point
of mention that there were listeners in faraway places.

And I treated it like a local talk show. There were some obvious differences
in what was discussed, but it came booming in here and except for the
fading, was strong enough to be local. I initially started listening
to WBZ overnight when there wasn't something of interest on the local
stations at that time (too much syndicated talk shows, and at one
point one station was airing repeats of programming from the daytime),
but for a number of years I was pretty much listening to WBZ overnight.

Michael

On Sep 11, 9:15 am, (Michael Black) wrote:
) writes:
Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses. I am disappointed that DISH NETWORK and DIRECT TV are not
allowed, by law, to sell me a package with out-of-town stations
without my local stations agreeing, which they won't. I can spend
$1,000 for a large tv antenna installation and pick up many out-of-
town stations, but I can't subscribe to get those SAME stations on
satellite. The reason -- the industry does NOT want me (or anyone
else) watching out-of-town stations because that means I am not
watching the local stations with local commercials. I tried getting
waivers from the local stations and every one of them refused.

YOu see that all the time with AM broadcast radio. When the local
station dropped Art Bell some years back, moving to an all-news
format, one local columnist lamented that it was the end of Art
Bell.

But one station in Vermont carried it. And it's really easy to receive
that New York station at 770KHz that carried the show, along with all
kind of other stations up and down the dial.

Yet people never tuned up and down that dial, assuming that they'd not
be able to receive anything. And yes, that's what the local stations
want, because they want the listenership to their ads.

Oddly, a station like WBZ out of Boston even makes an issue of this.
I don't know about them lately, their reception here has been curtailed
by a more local station on an adjacent frequency, but at one point
they acknowledged that most overnight radio was syndicated, and basically
the same syndicated show, but they were live, and they covered a really
big area. The overnight announcers, maybe even the bumpers, made a point
of mention that there were listeners in faraway places.

And I treated it like a local talk show. There were some obvious differences
in what was discussed, but it came booming in here and except for the
fading, was strong enough to be local. I initially started listening
to WBZ overnight when there wasn't something of interest on the local
stations at that time (too much syndicated talk shows, and at one
point one station was airing repeats of programming from the daytime),
but for a number of years I was pretty much listening to WBZ overnight.

Michael

MB,

KGO-AM on 810 kHz makes it a point with their
Over-Night Talk-Radio Call-in Show to take Callers
from all over the West Coast from San Diego to Alaska.

IMHO - KGO is what every 50 KW "Clear-Channel"
AM/MW Radio Station should be :
* Regional Coverage and Programming to Match
* Original Local Hosts and Programming
* No Syndication Allowed
Resulting in 100 Distinct Radio Voices Across the Nation

~ RHF

On Sep 11, 8:34 am, RHF wrote:

KGO-AM on 810 kHz makes it a point with their
Over-Night Talk-Radio Call-in Show to take Callers
from all over the West Coast from San Diego to Alaska.

Of course, but KGO does NOT want people living in San Francisco to be
listening to an out-of-town station. KMJ in Fresno also makes a point
of having listeners from all over the West Coast, but KMJ does NOT
want listeners IN Fresno to be listening to KGO or any other out-of-
town station. All the stations love people to be listening from out
of town, but NONE of the stations want people in their city to be
listening to out-of-town stations.

Same with TV. KGO-7 in San Francisco loved it when I told one of
their engineers that I was getting their signal in Clovis (Fresno).
They even offered to send me a gift (forgot what, but I think it was a
t-shirt) if I would tape it and send it to them. But do you think
KGO-7 would give someone in San Francisco a waiver so they could get
the KABC from Los Angeles on Dish Network?

It's a one-way deal with these stations.

"RHF" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 11, 9:15 am, (Michael Black) wrote:

IMHO - KGO is what every 50 KW "Clear-Channel"
AM/MW Radio Station should be :
* Regional Coverage and Programming to Match
* Original Local Hosts and Programming
* No Syndication Allowed
Resulting in 100 Distinct Radio Voices Across the Nation


And revenues off by a third since 2000.

David Eduardo wrote:

"RHF" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 11, 9:15 am, (Michael Black) wrote:

IMHO - KGO is what every 50 KW "Clear-Channel"
AM/MW Radio Station should be :
* Regional Coverage and Programming to Match
* Original Local Hosts and Programming
* No Syndication Allowed
Resulting in 100 Distinct Radio Voices Across the Nation


And revenues off by a third since 2000.

2000? Isn't that when you adopted the 'Eduardo' shtick?

On Sep 11, 1:43 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Sep 11, 9:15 am, (Michael Black) wrote:

IMHO - KGO is what every 50 KW "Clear-Channel"
AM/MW Radio Station should be :
* Regional Coverage and Programming to Match
* Original Local Hosts and Programming
* No Syndication Allowed
Resulting in 100 Distinct Radio Voices Across the Nation

And revenues off by a third since 2000.

How are the revenues for colloidal silver, by the way?

On Sep 11, 11:44 am, wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:07 am, Steve wrote:

DXers may be one thin slice of the population, but the option to DX is
one that many people value, whether they (currently) DX very often or
not.

Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses. I am disappointed that DISH NETWORK and DIRECT TV are not
allowed, by law, to sell me a package with out-of-town stations
without my local stations agreeing, which they won't. I can spend
$1,000 for a large tv antenna installation and pick up many out-of-
town stations, but I can't subscribe to get those SAME stations on
satellite. The reason -- the industry does NOT want me (or anyone
else) watching out-of-town stations because that means I am not
watching the local stations with local commercials. I tried getting
waivers from the local stations and every one of them refused.

I have been both a radio and tv dxer for over 50 years and know the
fun and excitement this hobby has given me. MOST tv dxing is done on
channels 2 through 6. In 2009, looks like that hobby will be history.

Again, having the option to DX matters to many people in much the way
that having the option to one day visit Lake Tahoe does. So, the
"masses: aren't the problem. The problem is companies like Ibiquity
that will gladly destroy a big swath of the spectrum in order to turn
a quick profit.

The only good news is that it will be a quick and shortlived profit,
as the business model of HD (or at any rate HD AM) is laughable.

wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:07 am, Steve wrote:

DXers may be one thin slice of the population, but the option to DX is
one that many people value, whether they (currently) DX very often or
not.

Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses.


The naivete of this statement This decision wasn't made by the
masses. It was made by broadcasters. Broadcasters seeking to control
content local market citizens have access to--one of two Holy Grails of
broadcasting since the invention of the medium. (The other is
subscription radio--watch your etherspace for this development.)

If this decision was actually made by the masses, it may be a
different story. And it may be less caustic going down. But it wasn't.
Make no mistake, this decision was made by broadcasters, seeking to
limit choices.

What you fail to realize, here, too, is that there is another
interference problem with HD....when a station out of your market
interferes with your LOCAL station. That's not a DX situation...and it's
happening now, today, this minute. I'm experiencing it personally. And
it's been reported in the trades from DC to LA. It's been in editorial
columns in local papers.

It's a real issue.

And imagine the results at night.

Then there is the issue of shortfalls in the HD pattern in the local
market. Reports of 60% coverage and less have been coming in for a
while, now. Leaving non HD reception areas subject to the same noise,
interference, and unpleasant artifacts, as well as poorer audio.

The facts, as they are coming in, appear that HD, especially on AM,
is not living up to the promise, and will be the final nail in the
coffin of MW broadcasting. Allowing the spectrum to finally be closed,
auctioned off, and content moved to FM where it has a chance of
commercial viability.

But this is not about what the masses want. Of even care about. If
it were, there would be no end of commercially available HD receivers
and they would be flying off shelves by the tens of millions.

The masses simply do not care. And as the months drag on, they
appear to care even less.

One thing I've been saying since the HD radio noise began, is that
for HD to take off with the public, there would have to be an FCC
mandate that HD be included in all receivers, or that a cutoff date be
made for analog radio. The same way as television.

September 14th, there will be something equally as effective, as AM
HD begins to reach into the hours of greatest propagation. The only way
to filter out the crap that's skipping into the local market, will be
through a digital receiver. We should know within 30 days, if the
increased trash on the bands will have a measureable effect on the
public's listening, HD adoption, or both.

But the only ones who appear to care about HD radio, at least as of
today, are the broadcasters, and the purveyors/licensees of the hardware
and firmware that make HD (more or less) happen.

Big (Corporate) Brother making decisions for the mass.

And look at all those defending his actions.


Orwell has to be laughing his dry, wrinkly ass off.

On Sep 11, 6:31?pm, D Peter Maus wrote:
wrote:
On Sep 11, 5:07 am, Steve wrote:

DXers may be one thin slice of the population, but the option to DX is
one that many people value, whether they (currently) DX very often or
not.

Again, what we value as a small group just doesn't matter to the
masses.

The naivete of this statement This decision wasn't made by the
masses. It was made by broadcasters. Broadcasters seeking to control
content local market citizens have access to--one of two Holy Grails of
broadcasting since the invention of the medium. (The other is
subscription radio--watch your etherspace for this development.)

If this decision was actually made by the masses, it may be a
different story. And it may be less caustic going down. But it wasn't.
Make no mistake, this decision was made by broadcasters, seeking to
limit choices.

What you fail to realize, here, too, is that there is another
interference problem with HD....when a station out of your market
interferes with your LOCAL station. That's not a DX situation...and it's
happening now, today, this minute. I'm experiencing it personally. And
it's been reported in the trades from DC to LA. It's been in editorial
columns in local papers.

It's a real issue.

And imagine the results at night.

Then there is the issue of shortfalls in the HD pattern in the local
market. Reports of 60% coverage and less have been coming in for a
while, now. Leaving non HD reception areas subject to the same noise,
interference, and unpleasant artifacts, as well as poorer audio.

The facts, as they are coming in, appear that HD, especially on AM,
is not living up to the promise, and will be the final nail in the
coffin of MW broadcasting. Allowing the spectrum to finally be closed,
auctioned off, and content moved to FM where it has a chance of
commercial viability.

But this is not about what the masses want. Of even care about. If
it were, there would be no end of commercially available HD receivers
and they would be flying off shelves by the tens of millions.

The masses simply do not care. And as the months drag on, they
appear to care even less.

One thing I've been saying since the HD radio noise began, is that
for HD to take off with the public, there would have to be an FCC
mandate that HD be included in all receivers, or that a cutoff date be
made for analog radio. The same way as television.

September 14th, there will be something equally as effective, as AM
HD begins to reach into the hours of greatest propagation. The only way
to filter out the crap that's skipping into the local market, will be
through a digital receiver. We should know within 30 days, if the
increased trash on the bands will have a measureable effect on the
public's listening, HD adoption, or both.

But the only ones who appear to care about HD radio, at least as of
today, are the broadcasters, and the purveyors/licensees of the hardware
and firmware that make HD (more or less) happen.

Big (Corporate) Brother making decisions for the mass.

And look at all those defending his actions.

Orwell has to be laughing his dry, wrinkly ass off.

"September 14th, there will be something equally as effective, as AM
HD begins to reach into the hours of greatest propagation. The only
way
to filter out the crap that's skipping into the local market, will be
through a digital receiver. We should know within 30 days, if the
increased trash on the bands will have a measureable effect on the
public's listening, HD adoption, or both."

No doubt, consumers will continure to shun HD Rsdio - they will have
no clue, nor care about what is happening.