IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


It was not, and in your typical fashion, you come back to obfuscate,
confuse,
and BS as best you can.

Take a walk, butt****.

And, 'Eddy', may I be so bold as to state that the best part of you
obviously
dripped down your mothers leg.


Are you still drinking so far into the morning? This kind of comment defines
you as a vulgar and insensitive person of limited education and culture.
When one has to engage in vulgarity and profanity to make what they think is
a point, they are either not quite right or they are under the influence of
something.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

On Jul 9, 9:48*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
- - "RHF" wrote in message
- - news:ca2fc371-9ec2-45da-94a5-
- - D'Oh ! -if- AM/MW Radio's Audience is mostly
- - over the Age of 55 Years : Program for Them
- - and Find Advertisers who want to Sell to Them.
- -
- - nah that would be to simple ~ RHF

- Except for small markets, there are no such advertisers.
- I asked recently about LA and how many agency buys
- targeted 55+ and was told, "none."
-*There are no advertisers who want 55+ in the significant
- radio metro areas.

The Greater Fools Are They : My Dollars are Just as Green
as a 20 Year Olds and I have a lot more of them too . . .

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


It was not, and in your typical fashion, you come back to obfuscate,
confuse,
and BS as best you can.

Take a walk, butt****.

And, 'Eddy', may I be so bold as to state that the best part of you
obviously
dripped down your mothers leg.


Are you still drinking so far into the morning? This kind of comment defines
you as a vulgar and insensitive person of limited education and culture.
When one has to engage in vulgarity and profanity to make what they think is
a point, they are either not quite right or they are under the influence of
something.

Uh-huh.. at least I'm not so screwed up that I need to lie about everything
under the sun nor do I need to pretend to be Hispanic!

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
For us boomers, radio is becoming a medium that simply ignores us and
doesn't program for or to us, and so is committing a slow suicide.

There is no money in programming to those over 55, so there is no specific
programming... such as standards or 50's oldies... as it is not
profitable. Suicide would be programming to an audience for which there is
no advertiser interest.

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because there
are no sales because there is no programming. A self fulfilling prophecy.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 09 Jul 2008 11:48:57 -0400, Anonymous wrote:



If you notice there is no outcry of complaints among radio
listeners....only here in geek groups.

So why doesn't Citadel use IBOC at night on many stations out west?

Most of the AMs they suspended night HD on have come back. Some they are not
bringing back, due to interference issues.

The fact is that HD can not slow down or halt the decline of AM usage... the
band is beyond that. When, market after market, usage by the age groups that
sustain radio (meaning 18 to 54 years of age) is dropping into single digit
shares of listening in the daytime and even thinner listening in the night
daypart.

With AM's only major formats, news/talk and sports talk, moving steadily to
FM, we will end up with market after market filled with AMs broadcasting
brokered shows, religious formats and very niche ethnic formats (like Farsi
in LA or Polish in Chicago).

Whether one company does or does not use HD on AM is irrelevant as the mass
appeal talk formats move to FM.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"RHF" wrote in message
...
On Jul 9, 9:48 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
- - "RHF" wrote in message
- - news:ca2fc371-9ec2-45da-94a5-
- - D'Oh ! -if- AM/MW Radio's Audience is mostly
- - over the Age of 55 Years : Program for Them
- - and Find Advertisers who want to Sell to Them.
- -
- - nah that would be to simple ~ RHF

- Except for small markets, there are no such advertisers.
- I asked recently about LA and how many agency buys
- targeted 55+ and was told, "none."
- There are no advertisers who want 55+ in the significant
- radio metro areas.

The Greater Fools Are They : My Dollars are Just as Green
as a 20 Year Olds and I have a lot more of them too . . .

They are very smart... companies like P&G and Lever and Toyota and Coke and
Bud and on and on have done extensive research and know there is no return
on investment in advertising consumer goods and services to that age group.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


It was not, and in your typical fashion, you come back to obfuscate,
confuse,
and BS as best you can.

Take a walk, butt****.

And, 'Eddy', may I be so bold as to state that the best part of you
obviously
dripped down your mothers leg.


Are you still drinking so far into the morning? This kind of comment
defines
you as a vulgar and insensitive person of limited education and culture.
When one has to engage in vulgarity and profanity to make what they think
is
a point, they are either not quite right or they are under the influence
of
something.

Uh-huh.. at least I'm not so screwed up that I need to lie about
everything
under the sun nor do I need to pretend to be Hispanic!


You keep insisting on the same two points. 1. You have not proven one single
lie and, 2. a person who grows up and lives for nearly 50 years in a culture
becomes of that culture. "Hispanic" is a culture, not a race or
nationality,,, one I have been a part of for all my adult life and many of
my adolescent years... you can bet I am not "American" in the stereotypical
"Leave it to Beaver" or "Mayberry" style.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Bart Bailey" wrote in message
...
In posted on Wed,
9 Jul 2008 09:48:49 -0700, David Eduardo wrote: Begin


Except for small markets, there are no such advertisers. I asked recently
about LA and how many agency buys targeted 55+ and was told, "none."
There
are no advertisers who want 55+ in the significant radio metro areas.

So when stations advertise term life, prepaid burial policies, etc.
they're going after the youngsters?

Most of those are PI, or "Per Inquiry" ads, which pay by the lead, not by
the spot. When you have unsold time, or have to fill in a network break, you
run that stuff and it may bring in a few dollars. But you can't sustain a
station with that stuff. Many of the late night ads, like C.C. Crane and the
like, are also PI accounts. It's only a tiny bit better than running the Ad
Council PSAs.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


It was not, and in your typical fashion, you come back to obfuscate,
confuse,
and BS as best you can.

Take a walk, butt****.

And, 'Eddy', may I be so bold as to state that the best part of you
obviously
dripped down your mothers leg.


Are you still drinking so far into the morning? This kind of comment
defines
you as a vulgar and insensitive person of limited education and culture.
When one has to engage in vulgarity and profanity to make what they think
is
a point, they are either not quite right or they are under the influence
of
something.

Uh-huh.. at least I'm not so screwed up that I need to lie about
everything
under the sun nor do I need to pretend to be Hispanic!


You keep insisting on the same two points. 1. You have not proven one single
lie and, 2. a person who grows up and lives for nearly 50 years in a culture
becomes of that culture. "Hispanic" is a culture, not a race or
nationality,,, one I have been a part of for all my adult life and many of
my adolescent years... you can bet I am not "American" in the stereotypical
"Leave it to Beaver" or "Mayberry" style.

Right... you are simply a 'full of ****' American. A minority.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


David Eduardo wrote:

"dxAce" wrote in message
...


It was not, and in your typical fashion, you come back to obfuscate,
confuse,
and BS as best you can.

Take a walk, butt****.

And, 'Eddy', may I be so bold as to state that the best part of you
obviously
dripped down your mothers leg.


Are you still drinking so far into the morning? This kind of comment
defines
you as a vulgar and insensitive person of limited education and culture.
When one has to engage in vulgarity and profanity to make what they think
is
a point, they are either not quite right or they are under the influence
of
something.

Uh-huh.. at least I'm not so screwed up that I need to lie about
everything
under the sun nor do I need to pretend to be Hispanic!


You keep insisting on the same two points.

Yes, and I've proven consistently that you are indeed a pathological liar. You,
being a proven pathological liar since you were 12 years old or so, refuse to
acknowledge that fact. So be it.

1. You have not proven one single
lie and, 2. a person who grows up and lives for nearly 50 years in a culture
becomes of that culture. "Hispanic" is a culture, not a race or
nationality,,, one I have been a part of for all my adult life and many of
my adolescent years... you can bet I am not "American" in the stereotypical
"Leave it to Beaver" or "Mayberry" style.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

On Jul 9, 2:36*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

...
On Jul 9, 9:48 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
- - "RHF" wrote in message
- - news:ca2fc371-9ec2-45da-94a5-
- - D'Oh ! -if- AM/MW Radio's Audience is mostly
- - over the Age of 55 Years : Program for Them
- - and Find Advertisers who want to Sell to Them.
- -
- - nah that would be to simple ~ RHF

- Except for small markets, there are no such advertisers.
- I asked recently about LA and how many agency buys
- targeted 55+ and was told, "none."
- There are no advertisers who want 55+ in the significant
- radio metro areas.

The Greater Fools Are They : My Dollars are Just as Green
as a 20 Year Olds and I have a lot more of them too . . .

They are very smart... companies like P&G and Lever and Toyota and Coke and
Bud and on and on have done extensive research and know there is no return
on investment in advertising consumer goods and services to that age group.
*.

Dang lets see survey the 55+ Age Group about the
Products and Services that they Use throughout the
Year; and Intend to Buy in the next Year.

Contact those Advertisers.

Program for the 55+ Age Group.

Work with what you got and do the best that you can do.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

Brenda Ann wrote:
"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
For us boomers, radio is becoming a medium that simply ignores us and
doesn't program for or to us, and so is committing a slow suicide.
There is no money in programming to those over 55, so there is no specific
programming... such as standards or 50's oldies... as it is not
profitable. Suicide would be programming to an audience for which there is
no advertiser interest.

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because there
are no sales because there is no programming. A self fulfilling prophecy.





Sadly, Radio is like that.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...
For us boomers, radio is becoming a medium that simply ignores us and
doesn't program for or to us, and so is committing a slow suicide.

There is no money in programming to those over 55, so there is no
specific programming... such as standards or 50's oldies... as it is not
profitable. Suicide would be programming to an audience for which there
is no advertiser interest.

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because
there are no sales because there is no programming. A self fulfilling
prophecy.


55+ listen to radio as much as 45-54 or 35-54, because many formats cover
outside the "sales demos." Country, talk, sports, AC, Urban AC, Gospel, etc.
have huge 55+ audiences. But they can´t sell that part of the audience that
is over 55 to advertisers because advertisers do no ask for 55+. So if a
station has half its audience over 55, they will base their ad rate on the
under-55 portion as the advertisers in all but smaller markets will not pay
for it.

There are no radio budgets for 55+, never have been.

Example: WDUV in Tampa is #1 12+, but essentially all the listeners are in
65+, so the station bills last among all the FMs there and is even behind
many, many AMs. This is a station that tries, but there is no revenue to be
had even though they do a terrific job at serving over-65's.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

If you notice there is no outcry of complaints among radio
listeners....only here in geek groups.

So why doesn't Citadel use IBOC at night on many stations out west?

Sorry Dave....I believe Citadel recinded that...and most of their stations
are broadcasting IBOC/HD day and night.....

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

If you notice there is no outcry of complaints among radio
listeners....only
here in geek groups.

They people who are dissatisfied with what they hear
simply tune elsewhere and don't for a minute think of notifying you.

You don't think station owner/operators watch ratings and do audience
research?

So far nothing....

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

For us boomers, radio is becoming a medium that simply ignores us and
doesn't program for or to us, and so is committing a slow suicide.

There is no money in programming to those over 55, so there is no
specific programming... such as standards or 50's oldies... as it is not
profitable. Suicide would be programming to an audience for which there
is no advertiser interest.

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because
there are no sales because there is no programming.

Sorry, you care incorrect...

You're assuming if there is programming there will be sales. This is not
true.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

Except for small markets, there are no such advertisers. I asked recently
about LA and how many agency buys targeted 55+ and was told, "none."
There
are no advertisers who want 55+ in the significant radio metro areas.

So when stations advertise term life, prepaid burial policies, etc.
they're going after the youngsters?

Stations aren't going after the older demo...it's a few specialized
advertisers using the closest station they can to reach their
target...ultimately on a station that is not targetted to them.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

Brenda Ann wrote:

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because there
are no sales because there is no programming. A self fulfilling prophecy.


Not necessarily. It COULD be a 'Which came first, the chicken or egg'
situation, but it isn't. There is an outside influence acting on this
otherwise vicious circle. We have to accept that the possible
advertisers have done their homework and know the type of audience they
are targeting.

If there is no targeted audience, there won't be sales, thus causing the
No Programming.

Now, if an adventurous and deep pocketed Station owner decided to make
outrageously good programming that attracted a desirable audience, the
sales money would follow. That takes time and is always risky.

People tend to forget that TV and Radio DO try sell something. The
product they are selling is YOU, the listening audience. They are
selling the viewer/listener to the advertisers. It's a business and the
light bills have to be paid.


mike






--
Due to the insane amount of spam and garbage, this filter
blocks all postings from Gmail, Google Mail and Google Groups.

http://improve-usenet.org/

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

In article suedk.3129$1o6.1638@edtnps83, m II wrote:

Brenda Ann wrote:

That's lovely circular logic, Eduardo. There's no programming because
there
are no sales because there is no programming. A self fulfilling prophecy.


Not necessarily. It COULD be a 'Which came first, the chicken or egg'
situation, but it isn't. There is an outside influence acting on this
otherwise vicious circle. We have to accept that the possible
advertisers have done their homework and know the type of audience they
are targeting.

If there is no targeted audience, there won't be sales, thus causing the
No Programming.

Now, if an adventurous and deep pocketed Station owner decided to make
outrageously good programming that attracted a desirable audience, the
sales money would follow. That takes time and is always risky.

People tend to forget that TV and Radio DO try sell something. The
product they are selling is YOU, the listening audience. They are
selling the viewer/listener to the advertisers. It's a business and the
light bills have to be paid.

Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.

He is the biggest BS poster boy in the news group since Bryant.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

On Jul 9, 6:02*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"RHF" wrote in message

...
. .



They are very smart... companies like P&G and Lever and Toyota and Coke
and
Bud and on and on have done extensive research and know there is no return
on investment in advertising consumer goods and services to that age
group.
.

Dang lets see survey the 55+ Age Group about the
Products and Services that they Use throughout the
Year; and Intend to Buy in the next Year.

Contact those Advertisers.

Program for the 55+ Age Group.

Work with what you got and do the best that you can do.

The issue is ROI. When it costs more to change the buying preferences of a
group than the profit on the sale, there is no ROI. In the case of older
consumers with more established brand and buying patterns, it costs more to
get them to change than the margin on the sale. This is why giants like P&G
don't mass advertise general market products outside the core consumer and
the low loyalty consumer.

People of ever age drink beer, but the beer companies target 21 to 34 or
21-39 men almost exclusively. That is because that is where most beer is
sold, and it is inefficient to advertise to women or anyone older.

Blah Blah Blag It Can't Be Done - D'Oh !

Double Dang lets see survey of the 55+ Age Group about
the Products and Services that they Use throughout the
Year; and Intend to Buy in the next Year.

Contact those Advertisers : Develop a new set of Advertisers
with Products and Services Use by the 55+ Age Group.

Develop Radio Programs and Station Formats
for the 55+ Age Group.

Work extra hard with what you got and do the best
that you can do with it.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.


You still don't get it, do you.

If you take hundreds of thousands of listeners and millions of listening
incidents and plot the listening ZIP code on a map, and find that 95% of
them occur within the contour demarcating a particular signal strength, you
could then conclude that stations require a certain strength to get
listenership irrespective of the quality or appeal of the programming.

The contour within which nearly 95% of AM at home or at work listening
occurs is the 10 mv/m signal in urbanized areas. This is confirmed by
running the same study in multiple markets in the US.

Over time, the finite strength requirement is increasing, probably due to
increased man made interference such as more computers, CFLs and such. This
change is unrelated to the general decline in AM listening, which is a
separate issue.

While you are correct that many more stations can be heard at a location,
the fact that they have less than the accepted signal level for being
actually listened to is the key factor.

Many radio groups have studied this, and it is a key factor in establishing
a price for broadcast facilities. Personally, my department has looked at a
sample of 5 of the top 10 markets, 4 of the top 20 markets and an assortment
of markets outside the top 25 as a "control point" and verified this is true
using what amounts to a sample of several million diarykeepers over the last
10 years.

This is the way listeners behave in the real world. And this is the way
stations determine where to do promotions and place billboards and such.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Bob Dobbs" wrote in message
news:4876a649.816954@chupacabra...
David Eduardo wrote:

This is the way listeners behave in the real world.

Only in the distorted world of people
with the time to waste keeping a diary


Irrespective of what you may think, the fact is that most of the $20 billion
spent on radio is based on the Arbitron ratings.

In any case, in nearly all the top 10 markers, the diary is not used anyway.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.


You still don't get it, do you.

SNIP

The BS meter is reading 40 over S9.

Believe me I get it Eduardo. I get that you are the BS master of this
news group.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that
guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is
talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.


You still don't get it, do you.

SNIP

The BS meter is reading 40 over S9.

Believe me I get it Eduardo. I get that you are the BS master of this
news group.

Actually, you are in total and irrational denial. The fact that signals can
be picked up does not mean, unless they are very strong, they will be
listened to.

That's a fact. A provable one. Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show you
how we can compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market and prove
this fact that you want to deny.

Analysis by all the major broadcast companies shows that outside of the very
intense signal areas, on both AM and FM, there is essentially no urban area
listening.

Yet you deny the facts.

The database for this consists of a sample size several thousand times that
of the typical political poll, and has been proven over and over.

And you deny the facts.

The prices for hundred-million dollar radio stations are in part determined
by the number of people in the "listenable signal" contours.

But you deny it.

And your only defense is to call a basic rule of the radio industry BS.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

On Jul 10, 6:00*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...





In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that
guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is
talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.

You still don't get it, do you.

SNIP

The BS meter is reading 40 over S9.

Believe me I get it Eduardo. I get that you are the BS master of this
news group.

Actually, you are in total and irrational denial. The fact that signals can
be picked up does not mean, unless they are very strong, they will be
listened to.

That's a fact. A provable one.

- Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show you how we can
- compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market
- and prove this fact that you want to deny.

Drive to Glendale and the "BS" Meter will be Pegged at S9 +60dB.


Analysis by all the major broadcast companies shows that outside of the very
intense signal areas, on both AM and FM, there is essentially no urban area
listening.

Yet you deny the facts.

The database for this consists of a sample size several thousand times that
of the typical political poll, and has been proven over and over.

And you deny the facts.

The prices for hundred-million dollar radio stations are in part determined
by the number of people in the "listenable signal" contours.

But you deny it.

And your only defense is to call a basic rule of the radio industry BS.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Equal Radio Programming and Listening Rights for Seniors Age 55 Yearsand Older !
 

On Jul 10, 4:53*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message

...



Don't give any of Eduardo's posts the benefit of the doubt. All that guy
does is spread BS in the news group. He does not know what he is talking
about. Nothing stops this guy from spewing his BS. He even has the
audacity to tell you what you can hear on your radio. Just ask him.

You still don't get it, do you.

If you take hundreds of thousands of listeners and millions of listening
incidents and plot the listening ZIP code on a map, and find that 95% of
them occur within the contour demarcating a particular signal strength, you
could then conclude that stations require a certain strength to get
listenership irrespective of the quality or appeal of the programming.

The contour within which nearly 95% of AM at home or at work listening
occurs is the 10 mv/m signal in urbanized areas. This is confirmed by
running the same study in multiple markets in the US.

Over time, the finite strength requirement is increasing, probably due to
increased man made interference such as more computers, CFLs and such. This
change is unrelated to the general decline in AM listening, which is a
separate issue.

While you are correct that many more stations can be heard at a location,
the fact that they have less than the accepted signal level for being
actually listened to is the key factor.

Many radio groups have studied this, and it is a key factor in establishing
a price for broadcast facilities. Personally, my department has looked at a
sample of 5 of the top 10 markets, 4 of the top 20 markets and an assortment
of markets outside the top 25 as a "control point" and verified this is true
using what amounts to a sample of several million diarykeepers over the last
10 years.

This is the way listeners behave in the real world. And this is the way
stations determine where to do promotions and place billboards and such.

d'Eduardo,

The 95% that you claim to Count and Serve : Clearly
implies that there is 5% that you clearly ignore and
'choose' not to serve.
-IF- this was any other form of Service to the Public :
The Courts would Mandate that you Serve that 'other'
5% as a significant Minority : d'Eduardo I think that
you have written enough here to prove a clear and
consistent pattern of Age Discrimination Against
Radio Listener's Over the Age of 55 Years and a
Willful intent Not to Serve that portion of the Public
Age 55 and Over.

BUT - The Percentage of US Population that is Over
the Age of 55 Years is really 20.4% and that is Bigger
than the 12.7% of the US that is Hispanic and 13%
that is Black.

Equal Radio Programming and Listening Rights for
Seniors Age 55 Years and Older !


can i get a class action suit - please ~ RHF

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"RHF" wrote in message
...

Actually, you are in total and irrational denial. The fact that signals
can
be picked up does not mean, unless they are very strong, they will be
listened to.

That's a fact. A provable one.

- Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show you how we can
- compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market
- and prove this fact that you want to deny.

Drive to Glendale and the "BS" Meter will be Pegged at S9 +60dB.

Actually, what you will find is the home of the #1, #2 and #6 stations in
25-54 audience in the 87 station LA market, a feat achieved by knowing and
reacting to facts like the ones I cited. In fact, two of those stations have
been in the top couple of stations in the market going back a decade.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Dave" wrote in message
...
RHF wrote:

- Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show you how we can
- compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market
- and prove this fact that you want to deny.

Glendale, eh? That explains a lot.

Glendale, like Burbank, is a media friendly location which is why so many
radio operations are in these two cities. We get things like nearly
guaranteed microwave paths and lots of other advantages.

Stations here include all the Salem, Clear Channel, Liberman, Univision
operations as well as some independents like XEWW too.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, you live in your own self created universe where you dictate
what people hear on their radios based on some imaginary or
misconstrued information.

Nope... every major broadcaster does the same analysis, generally to
determine where to do promotion and where not to. The source data comes from
Arbitron, so every significant broadcaster in the nation has it.

All subscribed stations do ZIP code analysis to determine where listeners
are... and where they are not. From that, we can form general rules based on
necessary signal strength to get ratings.

As I said, it's part of the formula everyone uses to optimize ratings. Some
do it better than others, but the base fact is the constant on minimum AM
and FM signal strength. Just a few weeks ago, for a limited signal FM, we
used this data to determine where inside a market to place billboards...
even which way on highways and freeways the boards should face... based on
the borders of the usable signal.

Arbitron ZIP code mapping of listenership is quite real, and has been for
over a decade. And there is no way of misconstruing the signal strength in
ZIPs with listenership and those without.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

Actually, you are in total and irrational denial. The fact that signals
can be picked up does not mean, unless they are very strong, they will be
listened to.

That's a fact. A provable one. Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show
you how we can compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market and
prove this fact that you want to deny.

Analysis by all the major broadcast companies shows that outside of the
very intense signal areas, on both AM and FM, there is essentially no
urban area listening.

Yet you deny the facts.


No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours. It really doesn't matter that you say 95% of all listening happens
within those contours.. if you do the math, that still means that 15 MILLION
people do not listen inside those contours. That is NOT an insignificant
number, as you and the rest of your increasingly irrelevant industry seem to
believe.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:


"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, you live in your own self created universe where you dictate
what people hear on their radios based on some imaginary or
misconstrued information.

Nope... every major broadcaster does the same analysis, generally to
determine where to do promotion and where not to. The source data comes from
Arbitron, so every significant broadcaster in the nation has it.

Nope, you are not a broadcaster just a master fabricator.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

Yet you deny the facts.


No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours.

I've heard that people have picked up WABC and WKBW in Europe.

Should their signals be protected there?

TWR used to broadcast out of Bonaire with 500KW's. How far should we
protect their coverage?

Should we have made CKLW sign off because it might interfere with someone
picking up TWR in Louisiana?

This is the defense you are submitting. How far should we take this?

This is the real world...taking your hypothesis to it's ridiculous
conclusion.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

Actually, you are in total and irrational denial. The fact that signals
can be picked up does not mean, unless they are very strong, they will be
listened to.

That's a fact. A provable one. Drive to Glendale and I will quickly show
you how we can compare coverage with ZIP code listening for any market
and prove this fact that you want to deny.

Analysis by all the major broadcast companies shows that outside of the
very intense signal areas, on both AM and FM, there is essentially no
urban area listening.

Yet you deny the facts.


No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours. It really doesn't matter that you say 95% of all listening
happens within those contours.. if you do the math, that still means that
15 MILLION people do not listen inside those contours. That is NOT an
insignificant number, as you and the rest of your increasingly irrelevant
industry seem to believe.

In metro areas, the remaining 5% is generally inside the market, but outside
the 64 dbu or 10 mv/m signals of inferior technical facilities.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:


"Telamon" wrote in message
...

Actually, you live in your own self created universe where you dictate
what people hear on their radios based on some imaginary or
misconstrued information.

Nope... every major broadcaster does the same analysis, generally to
determine where to do promotion and where not to. The source data comes
from
Arbitron, so every significant broadcaster in the nation has it.

Nope, you are not a broadcaster just a master fabricator.

Why do you refuse to believe facts an entire industry is guide by? Instead
of examining the facts, you hurl insults.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"Telamon" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"David Eduardo" wrote:

"Telamon" wrote in message
...
Actually, you live in your own self created universe where you dictate
what people hear on their radios based on some imaginary or
misconstrued information.
Nope... every major broadcaster does the same analysis, generally to
determine where to do promotion and where not to. The source data comes
from
Arbitron, so every significant broadcaster in the nation has it.
Nope, you are not a broadcaster just a master fabricator.

Why do you refuse to believe facts an entire industry is guide by? Instead
of examining the facts, you hurl insults.




Because he, like the rest of us, doesn't accept the premise that an
industry licensed "to serve in the public interest as a public trustee"
may unilaterally make performance commitments based exclusively on a
bottom line.

Because he, like the rest of us, doesn't accept the premise that an
industry licensed "to serve in the public interest as a public trustee,"
has an entitlement to a license based on investment in physical plant
and stockholders' expectations.

Because he, like the rest of us, believes an industry licensed "to
serve in the public interest as a public trustee" doesn't get to dismiss
complaints of active listeners as destructive and contemptous when
they're told as listeners they are immaterial and irrelevant.

Because he, like the rest of us, believes your industry's facts are
manufactured pursuant to goals that have nothing to do with the license
requirement that you "serve in the public interest as a public trustee."


That should provide the answer to your inquiry. The question is,
why do you refuse to listen to the the complaints of an entire body of
active and participating radio listeners who believe they have every
right to be heard?


You see...refusing seems to work both ways.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

A Brown wrote:
Yet you deny the facts.

No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours.

I've heard that people have picked up WABC and WKBW in Europe.

Should their signals be protected there?

TWR used to broadcast out of Bonaire with 500KW's. How far should we
protect their coverage?

Should we have made CKLW sign off because it might interfere with someone
picking up TWR in Louisiana?

This is the defense you are submitting. How far should we take this?

This is the real world...taking your hypothesis to it's ridiculous
conclusion.


The key word is 'ridiculous.' Which negates your claim to be 'real
world.'


"Argument based in the absurd is not incumbent upon Reality to comply."

--Lt. Cmdr D. L. Mandron.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:

Why do you refuse to believe facts an entire industry is guide by?
Instead of examining the facts, you hurl insults.


Because he, like the rest of us, doesn't accept the premise that an
industry licensed "to serve in the public interest as a public trustee"
may unilaterally make performance commitments based exclusively on a
bottom line.

We are discussing where listening takes place. Not profitability.

The fact is that knowing where we might be able to get listeners, based on
acceptable signal strength (and thus clarity and ease of reception) is key
to being able to provide the people within that area which some kind of
format or programming that a group of listeners would actually like.

Only if we appeal to a group of listeners can we make the money needed to
sustain any kind of format.

Because he, like the rest of us, doesn't accept the premise that an
industry licensed "to serve in the public interest as a public trustee,"
has an entitlement to a license based on investment in physical plant and
stockholders' expectations.

And where does discussing the signal needed for listeners to be able to
satisfactorily receive a station have any relationship with serving the
listners who can receive us well enough to actually listen?

Because he, like the rest of us, believes an industry licensed "to
serve in the public interest as a public trustee" doesn't get to dismiss
complaints of active listeners as destructive and contemptous when they're
told as listeners they are immaterial and irrelevant.

Aside from fruitcakes, who are most of the complainers to radio stations
(people who object to callers saying "ain't" for example), stations as a
rule pay attention to valid complaints. But that does not have anything to
do with the subject, either.

Posters to Usenet and forums are an exception... they are radio hobbyists or
groupies (not said negatively... as I was such at 12 or 13 myself) who have
more than the average listener's interest in the radio business.

Again, nothing to do with the subject of what signal strength is necessary
for over 95% of listening at home and at work takes place.

Because he, like the rest of us, believes your industry's facts are
manufactured pursuant to goals that have nothing to do with the license
requirement that you "serve in the public interest as a public trustee."

This case is exactly the opposite. We have a great deal of data on where
listening takes place, and we can use it to determine, at the individual
station level, where a station's listening is located so we can concentrate
our efforts on providing appealing programming to some of the people inside
the real listening area.

Since service can be of many kinds, ranging from a pleasant music blend to
get through the day by to active news coverage to being part of ethinc
communities. So knowing who is in the area we can serve is important... and
knowing what that area is is a combination of how far our useful signal goes
and who lives inside that signal.

The facts in this case are not manufactured. You map your listening, book
after book, and then look at what the signal contour is that encompasses
most of them. The contour is pure math (on AM, frequency, power, antenna
efficiency and conductivity) and the listenership comes out of (using LA as
an example) 30,000 annual diaries with several hundred thousand at home and
at work ZIP coded listening instances.

Again, knowing where we can be used determines a large part of how we can be
of service and use to listeners.

That should provide the answer to your inquiry. The question is, why
do you refuse to listen to the the complaints of an entire body of active
and participating radio listeners who believe they have every right to be
heard?

At stations I am involved with, we answer valid listener concerns.
Obviously, the kind of people on this Usenet group are not listeners to any
station I deal with, so this statement of yours is hardly appropriate.


You see...refusing seems to work both ways.

Not really, since your comments have nothing to do with the subject or are
just wrong.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

David Eduardo wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
David Eduardo wrote:
Why do you refuse to believe facts an entire industry is guide by?
Instead of examining the facts, you hurl insults.

Because he, like the rest of us, doesn't accept the premise that an
industry licensed "to serve in the public interest as a public trustee"
may unilaterally make performance commitments based exclusively on a
bottom line.

We are discussing where listening takes place. Not profitability.


Go back and read carefully, you asked why. I told you why.


And this is where we fundamentally differ. You don't listen.

Read it again, Pancho. See if you can find the hidden meaning. I'll
give you a hint...it's right in front of your face.


You want to know why he refuses to accept your 'facts?' Because he's
not sure you listened to him enough to really understand what his gripe
is.

So far, in the last two years, you've only quoted margins, stock
prices, statistics and agendae. You've argued with everything that's
been put before you, even when it agrees with what you've said.

What you've not done....not one time, is simply listen. And then
address what's been said. Instead of returning to script and quoting
your manufactured facts.

It's like I said a year ago, if you came down and actually
participate in a discussion as a member of the group, instead of
spitting pedantry every time you open your keyboard, you'd probably get
a lot more of your message heard.

But you don't seem to be able to discuss without the pedantic
reliance on corporate speak and what Eric Richards called (with some
accuracy) pseudo-statistical double talk.

Drop the pedantry and oblique insults and see if you don't get
somewhere.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
A Brown wrote:
Yet you deny the facts.

No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours.

I've heard that people have picked up WABC and WKBW in Europe.

Should their signals be protected there?

TWR used to broadcast out of Bonaire with 500KW's. How far should we
protect their coverage?

Should we have made CKLW sign off because it might interfere with someone
picking up TWR in Louisiana?

This is the defense you are submitting. How far should we take this?

This is the real world...taking your hypothesis to it's ridiculous
conclusion.


The key word is 'ridiculous.' Which negates your claim to be 'real
world.'

I think what he was showing was that the claim that signals should be
protected to infinity is ridiculous.

It has no practical place in the real world.

IBiquity - Where's the "HD" in "HD" radio?
 

Rrrado Rn wrote:
"D Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
A Brown wrote:
Yet you deny the facts.

No, Eduardo, YOU deny the facts. In the REAL WORLD, people DO listen to
radio stations, daily, at all hours, outside your precious city grade
contours.
I've heard that people have picked up WABC and WKBW in Europe.

Should their signals be protected there?

TWR used to broadcast out of Bonaire with 500KW's. How far should we
protect their coverage?

Should we have made CKLW sign off because it might interfere with someone
picking up TWR in Louisiana?

This is the defense you are submitting. How far should we take this?

This is the real world...taking your hypothesis to it's ridiculous
conclusion.

The key word is 'ridiculous.' Which negates your claim to be 'real
world.'

I think what he was showing was that the claim that signals should be
protected to infinity is ridiculous.

It has no practical place in the real world.

No one was claiming protection to infinity. Which was my point. There
is no place in the real world for his argument. It was ridiculous in its
premise. On two fronts. There is no practical protection to infinity.
And no one was making that suggestion.

Strawman argument.

He's negated his own point.