Telamon wrote:
In article ,
Dave wrote:

RHF wrote:

Dave,

IIRC a good Amateur Radio 1/4 WL Vertical-Up-Leg
by 1/4 WL Horizontal-Out-Arm {Inverted "L" Antenna
requires very little Tuning and performs very well near
and far on the HF Band that it is 'cut' to use on.
Using a direct-connect or 1:1 UnUn at the Feed-Point
* Half-Wave Inverted "L" Antenna : 1/4 WL + 1/4 WL


Where-as the more common Shortwave Listener (SWL)
type of {Random Wire} Inverted "L" Antenna is un-equal
and usually has a shorter Vertical-Up-Leg and a longer
Horizontal-Out-Arm of at least 1V-to-2H and often
1V-to-3H or more. Using a 9:1 Matching Transformer
and Ground Rod at the Feed-Point which is at the base
of the Vertical-Up-Leg.


"Random" implies otherwise. Instead of a 9:1 UnUn, imagine one of these
at the feed point:

http://www.mfjenterprises.com/Produc...ductid=MFJ-927

I enjoy playing with these kind of things. So I got a license to
transmit. Some call that "elitist", I call it self-indulgent.

Remote tuners are the right way to do things. Much better than a tuner
in the shack.

A tuner in the shack matches the radio to the transmission line. There
is still a mismatch at the feedpoint.

John Smith wrote:
Dave wrote:

...
"Pray tell"?

Alas and alack. Zounds!

Unfortunately, your editing is a bit severe and I have no idea what
you're talking about.

Well, if you can't remember your own text, nor your "side" of an
argument, between posts--I think it is all for moot ...

Regards,
JS

Like you're the only person I talk with...

John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the POOR
antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as heat.
And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been rectified,
they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

"KC8QJP" wrote in message
. ..

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 23 Dec 2008 09:46:07 -0800 (PST), PJ
wrote:

Folks,

I have purchased a Sangean ATS-909 World Receiver. It is equipped with
an internal ferrite antenna för MW and LW, and a telescope antenna for
SW and FM. It also comes with a portable SW antenna (ANT-60), seven
meters long. Is this external antenna generally sufficient for SW
reception, or should I get a different antenna? If yes, is there a
solution that doesn't cost all that much money? I have a copy of the
2009 World Radio TV Handbook, and they are talking about a Wellbrook
ALA-1530+ loop antenna, and let me tell you, that one is well past my
budget, because it costs $466... I am looking for something a lot
cheaper... :-) If it is recommended to replace the ANT-60, that is.

PJ

Hi PJ,

With your location in Sweden, a long wire should pick up a lot of
stations unless you are buried deep in a valley. That long wire can
be as simple as 10 meters of wire with a clip to attach it to the whip
of the Sangean. When I was in Africa last year, that was enough to
fill my cheap SW set with signals from everywhere in Africa up into
Europe. Toss the wire out a window up into a tree. It is at least a
cheap, first attempt to see if you need anything more than that.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


try the superskyhook sloper it works wonders over hear!
http://i40.tinypic.com/2ykgg05.jpg

mary xmas

That looks like junk,KC8QJP . You're better off sticking to the bogus tax
returns or are you still in prison for that?

FORMAL DISCIPLINARY HEARING-KATHLEEN R. LEE
Chairman Woods noted that Kathleen Lee was issued CPA certificate 36,525
on July 15, 1998. The hearing was to consider disciplinary action
against Ms. Lee's CPA certificate pursuant to Ohio Revised Code section
4701.16(A)(5), conviction of a felony under the laws of any state or of
the United States. Ms. Lee was convicted in the United States District
Court, Northern District of Ohio of five counts of Aiding & Assisting in
Filing False Tax Returns, a violation of 26 USC 7206(2), on June 12,
2000. Ms. Lee did not appear at the hearing. The Board agreed to
deliberate the disciplinary action in a later executive session.
Action taken.
Kathleen R. Lee, CPA 4701.16(A)(5)-Convicted of aiding & assisting in
filing of false tax returns. CPA certificate revoked.

On Dec 28, 4:02*am, RHF wrote:


"N" - Alas in my heart I am still "that" 8-Year-Old
that gets daily joy from DXing the AM-BCB and
the Shortwave Bands; and more importantly simply
listening to the radio : One Word "Enjoyment".

"N" - You over time have evolved and grow with The
Craft -while- I still simply enjoy it's less technical
aspects as a user : We are different and therefore
naturally see things differently. ~ RHF
*.

I was pretty primitive in the early days. :/
Not much money, so I made do with some weird stuff.
Here is my "radio room" when I was in the 7th, 8th grade
or so. Probably about 1971. The "room" is the closet in
my bedroom..
http://home.comcast.net/~nm5k/r2.jpg
The radio was a philco portable. Covered 4-12 mhz.
No BFO.. So... I would use the white AM radio sitting
behind it as a BFO. :/ Not the most fun in the world,
being neither radio was the most stable things around..
But it would let me listen to CW and SSB with tuning
tweaks every once in a while. Well, maybe more than
once in a while..
The other white AM radio to the left was more for the
clock, and I used the radio in it for local AM listening
most of the time.
The antenna was just a random wire strung out the
back window.
The contraption in the foreground was the first transmitter
I built. It was a single 6V6 run off line voltage for the B+.
Did maybe 5-10 watts I guess.. 40m, and I had two
crystals. Look at my advanced scotch tape coil forming
construction. :/
The chassis was WW2 Navy issue.. The circuit from the
1949 ARRL handbook. Yes, it actually worked..
I later rebuilt it using a transformer, and a bit more power.
I used it as my first novice transmitter for a good while.
By that time, I had a Hammarlund HQ-110 for a receiver.
But as a SWL, I listened to half a zillion stations just with
that little philco portable and about 50 feet of wire hooked
to it.
Spent half a fortune "to me back then" on IRC's to get
faster QSL replies. You can see a RAI card on the wall.
They sent me magazines for about 20 years after that card..
I still got color RAI magazines into the late 80's at least..
For many years, I used to get a Christmas card from Radio
Havana.. Every year.. Then like the RAI mags, they finally
quit coming.
I used to get some real nice glossy color magazines from
China back in those days. :/ The FBI probably thought I
was some kind of communist being I used to get so much
mail from them...

RHF wrote:

...
JS - What you call a "simplistic manner"

IMHO is a will 'crafted' answer by "RL" designed to
answer the readers question in a 'manner' that the
reader could easily understand, accept and act-on.

communications is about speaking 'to' the reader :
not 'at' them - iane ~ RHF
.

I have no problem with the way Roy presented the material ... and, I
believe there is high probability that you are correct, some people are
more concerned with how material is delivered rather than the material
itself ... I don't do well in those situations. And, I wish to accept
no responsibility in having to participate, it makes for too much work.

I simply wish to cut to the heart and deliver the material in a manner I
prefer, I am sure there some who prefer the importance of material over
the presentation ...

Regards,
JS

Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:


I said NO such thing, indeed, I stated the EXACT opposite, it allows
maximum power transfer to the antenna, however, the losses in the POOR
antenna are now increased due to the losses in the matchbox--as heat.
And, no problems which exist in the POOR antenna have been rectified,
they are just masked ...

That is vastly oversimplified.

Absolutely, and at some point I must trust the reader has the resources
to extrapolate; otherwise, all postings would soon turn in to the
length, depth and completeness of a college textbook ...

For example, an antenna is a two lane road, running in both
directions(T/R), the same parameters which allow it to be the best
choice for transmitting, also are in action when that same antenna
"plucks" its' signals from the ether ... something I have pointed out in
multiple ways, multiple times ...

The average person must hear, read, study the same material six times
before "learning" it. And, an instructor once pointed out to me, not
all people respond to the same method, personality, mode-of-presentation
as another or others ... so, he pointed out the importance of gathering
data from multiple sources until the "epiphany" is realized ...

Regards,
JS

RHF wrote:
On Dec 27, 7:46 pm, John Smith wrote:
wrote:

Well, sure, but what does transmitting have to do with
anything? We are not talking about transmitting.
...

It has EVERYTHING to do with it, it is the same communication, both
ways, simply in reverse ... like I have stated before, the exact same
laws of physics governing the antenna makes it equally acceptable to
both transmitting and receiving. The same pattern seen in the signal
transmitted will be seen in the signal(s) received.

- Your argument is the equivalent to arguing that
- a car designed to go forward would not be
- acceptable when backing up ...
- simply ridiculous!
-
- Regards,
- JS

JS -think-about-it-

IF 'by-design' the Car is in-fact designed
to go "Only" Forward :
* It may 'only' have Forward Gears and
a Transmission that has NO Reverse.
* No Rear Window
* No Rear Mirror
NOT So Ridiculous ~ RHF
http://www.prweb.com/prfiles/2006/10...onmeteor72.jpg
.
Just an Example of "Single Focus" Thinking :
Optimizing Your Results For One Purpose.

Sort of what Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWL)
do when they consider how they are going to
Design, Build and Use an Antenna for the
Hobby of Shortwave Radio Listening (SWLing)

Yes as you have pointed out : There is a Greater
Boby of Knowledge and Practicum Out There
That Could Be Considered and Used -but- The
Shortwave Listener (SWL) often is 'selective' in
what they consider and use to achieve their
specific limited goals.

It Has To Do With "Level-of-Involvement" :
* Many/Most Amateur Radio Operators {Hams}
have the well earn knowledge and experience
to function 'like' an Auto Mechanic -wrt- Cars
* * Hams at their best are Advocates of the
Technology [ Practicers of The Craft ]
* Many/Most Shortwave Radio Listeners (SWLs)
simply enjoy a level of knowledge and experience
to function 'like' a Car Driver -wrt- Cars
* * SWLs at their best are Hobbyists Enjoyers
of the Technology [ Users of the Technology ]
TBL : Both are Need -and- Both are Different

~ RHF
.

I see you are ready to go to extraordinary lengths to justify your
statements or propose "special cases" which are only correct in extreme
circumstances of very limited parameters--this is all fine, however,
carry on without me ...

Again, it is as true as when I originally stated it, the same antenna,
its efficiency, fitness-for-purpose, pattern delivered, etc. will work
the same, both forward (transmitting), or in reverse (receiving.) I am
sure there exists the possiblily of "breaking" or "orchastrating" the
antenna physics to bring about a special case or cases ... no practical
use I have yet seen has required this.

Many hams wish to think themselves "special" because of their hobby, now
you have brought me to the realization that there is the equivalent in
the SWL'ers hobby ... to me, it just looks like one of my other hobbies,
like tropical fish, for example.

Regards,
JS

Dave wrote:
John Smith wrote:
wrote:


Well, sure, but what does transmitting have to do with
anything? We are not talking about transmitting.
...

It has EVERYTHING to do with it, it is the same communication, both
ways, simply in reverse ... like I have stated before, the exact same
laws of physics governing the antenna makes it equally acceptable to
both transmitting and receiving. The same pattern seen in the signal
transmitted will be seen in the signal(s) received.

Your argument is the equivalent to arguing that a car designed to go
forward would not be acceptable when backing up ... simply ridiculous!

Regards,
JS
How does one transmit MW with a ferrite bar antenna?

I have come across data on the net of people using ferrite loops for
transmitting, a comprehensive google search should provide those to you
.... personally, I have never had interest or need ...

Regards,
JS

Dave wrote:

...
I have taken ordinary lamp zip cord, split the two leads apart to for
a 1/4 wave dipole and fed the end of the remaining length of zip cord
with a balun to the rig (some zip cord is ~68-72 ohm balanced line,
the mismatch is more than acceptable for field/emergency use.)

Never, say never ... some ham will do it!

Regards,
JS
Yes,some ham will do it, with a 3 Watt transmitter tucked into a Sucrets
tin, and work 50 countries with his zip cord dipole.

Now, I'd say, "That's the spirit!"

Warm regards,
JS