On Jul 11, 6:09*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Brenda Ann" wrote in message

...





"0baMa0 Tse Dung" wrote in message
....
On Jul 11, 9:12 am, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
We may have the 'freedom' to choose what we listen to on the radio, but
the
choice, thanks to corporatized radio, is miniscule.

Ja, unt Government will give you more for less - bwaHAHAHAHA!

You have never had a greater choice in radio programming in all of
history.
STOP with the Liberal Fascist propaganda lies!

ROTFLMAO!!!!!

The choices of radio formats in most cities have dwindled to but a few:

Hip Hop
Oldies
Country (not in many east coast cities)

Except for New York, name me two East Coast metros without a country
station.

Sports/talk
Rock

Well, let's look at LA. Around 13 million people, 91 or 92 licensed
stations.

We have:
Liberal talk
Sports talk
Conservative talk
All News
Christian Talk
NPR / Talk
Childrens' (Disney)
Contemporary Christian
Christian Teaching
CHR
Alternative Rock
Classic Rock
AAA
Rhythmic AC
Traditional AC
Oldies (actually "Classic Hits" as we have no real oldies station)
Country
Jazz
Rhythmic Oldies
Urban
Classical
Hurban
Smooth Jazz
Adult Hits
Americana
CHUrban
Spanish CHR
Spanish AC
Spanish Adult Hits
Spanish All Sports
Spanish talk
Spanish Regional Mexican (equivalent of country)
Spanish rhythmic
Spanish religious
Spanish regional Oldies
In addition there are stations in Korean, Vietnamese and Chinese as well as
ones that combine various Asian languages.
And, finally, there is a station 24/7 in Farsi.

I can't really think of anything that is missing. And compared to the 60's,
the number of viable alternatives has more than trippled.



Gone from almost all venues are classical, opera, jazz, easy listening and
MOR.

The audience for classical has declined as it died; changes in school music
programs have pretty much eliminated the creation of a new generation or two
of classical listeners. Opera is simply an extension of this... there was
never an all.opera station, as opera was an occasional feature of classical
formats.

Jazz was never a broadly successful (read: it did not have many listeners)
anywhere. My first job was at a jazz station, WCUY,, in Cleveland, so I have
followed the genre, and it has few followers, even in the few places where
there are pockets of interest. Also, it is an art form that is dying due to
the ageing of its artistas and fans.

Easy listening and MOR are similar... they aged with the listener groups and
eventually there was no market. I did (as in managed, programmed and sold) a
syndicated Beautiful Music format and by the ending years of the 80's, there
was neither an audience nor any new music to be had; I had to spend a lot of
money as part of an alliance of syndicators to get familar hits recorded in
instrumental versions to keep the format fresh... even that failed after
time.

MOR died with its listeners.

You have named formats that aged out of existence because new generations
did not like the music and the older ones croaked. New formats based on new
music forms have come to replace them.



Tell us again how we have more choices than ever.. perhaps we have more
choices of where to listen to Rush Limbaugh and George Noory.. more places
to listen to Fitty Cent.. more places to listen to the same tired old 50
or so oldies tracks on the average oldies playlists.. but real CHOICE..
nope.

When I grew up in what was then a Top 10 market, long before any FM "made
the ratings" we had 8 AMs... one a daytimer, and one a suburban Class IV.
There were three formats. 2 were r&b, 3 were Top 40 and 3 were MOR. That was
real choice.

That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.
nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

On Jul 11, 10:11*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." *All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.




most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.



Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.



yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.


most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a playlist
TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format
concept that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based
entirely on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a
playlist TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

OMG.

Top 40's concept was developed by Todd Storz in 1952, and put on the air at
KOWH in Omaha in August of that year. By the mid 50's there were several
hundred top 40 stations in the US... and Canada, and Mexico and all over the
world.

Bill Drake's update of the format, developed in Fresno in 1963 and 1964,
debuted on KHJ in Los Angeles in 1965. While the existing Top 40's played
the 40 hits, Drake played those 40 hits but added "gold" songs to the
library and expanded the list to well over 100 songs. Drake never played a
top 30 list, ever. Did I say "ever?"

In fact, the "big deal" with Drake was that KHJ beat existing Top 40 LA
stations KFWB and KRLA in just a few months, and then KFRC in San Francisco
beat KEWB and KYA just as fast.

I had a top 40 on the air in Quito, Ecuador, a year before Drake debuted
KHJ.

You have your dates and formats and names reversed.

On Jul 12, 12:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

*that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.



today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.


And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.



you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...

It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

On Jul 12, 1:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:



It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
*today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...


yea right, 10 companies, own 90% of almost all media. in some small
cities, one or two companies own it all. you switch the channel, and
hear the same thing. you really do need to get out more.


It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.



a corporatists response.



And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. *In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.



have you even been in the natural, or organic stores in your area? or
smaller chains, you would be amazed. in my metro area, there are 3
smaller grocery store chains, one has a whole aisle of soda pop, made
with pure cane sugar, in glass bottles mostly, but also pony kegs, and
many brands get wiped out over the weekend, and the pony kegs go even
faster. you really need to get out more. you are locked in a
corporatist mentality.



The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

*yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
*you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

*at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

*but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

*snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed,
most have failed.

Back in the day, KAPA in Raymond, WA used to have a library of literally
thousands of records, all in very nicely laid out libraries, from which
their announcers could retrieve pretty much anything they wanted to play.
The station did indeed finally fail.. but it was only AFTER it was bought up
by a corporate entity and pretty much driven into the ground.

Corporate radio has ruined radio. Even in the heyday of network radio,
individual affiliate stations had their own programming, usually in the
daytime. Networks ruled the evenings with the great comedy and news
programs.

A great many netcasting stations have thousands of tracks that they pick and
choose from. Almost none have a limited playlist (DMCA actually PREVENTS it
in cases where the stations are bothering to follow the law).