David Eduardo wrote:


Untrue. If you go down in size to groups that own 50 stations or less,
which excludes only about 10 or 11 companies, you will see that about
12,200 stations are not owned by big companies.


How many potential listeners?

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 9:10 am, dave wrote:
David Eduardo wrote:

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands of records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has
existed, most have failed.

Myth? How so? Community stations have such programmers to this day.
When I was in Top 40 (50 actually) radio in the '60s we were told where
to choose the next record from, e.g. top 10 current out of the top of
the hour ID; power oldie out of news headlines, etc. We were never
told to play a specific song at a specific time.

We had music meetings where we auditioned new records and informally
voted on them. We discovered and broke new acts. Our musical knowledge
and opinion was valued.

I blame Lee Abrams more than Ron Jacobs.

thank you for your statement. its what i saw as a kid also.

Of course the statement is untrue. Playlists, based on consumer feedback,
were shortened going back nearly 20 years before Abrams developed his
successful format at WQDR in Raleigh.

As for proof, Abram's SuperStars(c) format was contracted all over the US,
where it rapidly decimated the remaining free form stations that ran under
the label of "progressive rock."

the
truth, its refreshing. back in the 60's, in my area, garage bands were
the thing. my local radio exposed them, and many went national,
remember the trashmen and surfer bird, the gentrys "keep on dancing"
the castaways 'liar liar", today, they would never get heard.

The eqivalent songs would get played today... adding music is a pure
emotional call, verified only weeks later by research. Most program
directors are blind to label... we look at the aritst, obviously giving
prefernce to the new song by the biggest acts and the newer acts with a few
consistent hits under their belts. Then, just as in the 50's and 60's we
look for good songs by unknowns.

No PD in the 60's would have postponed adding a new Beatles or Stones or
Supremes cut to play the Castaways chanting "Liar, Liar, you're pants are on
fire..." But enough of the new songs get played that we have a nice crop of
newcomers in country, CHR, Urban, and every other format that plays an
amount of current music.

"dave" wrote in message
m...
David Eduardo wrote:

Individuals buy music, while groups listen to the radio. The fringe songs
a few like but the majority dislike or don't even know have no place on
radio because the job of radio is to please masses, not each person
individually.

This is where you are completely wrong. Radio is one-on-one. People
listen to the radio alone, or in very small groups.

You miss the point. To reach each listener individually, a station can not
play any, or more realistically, more than a few songs that each listener
does not care for. To do this means on radio finding the songs that everyone
likes, at least a little, and discarding the ones that irritate some of the
listeners.

So to make the experience personal, a station has to make sure that more
than one person is satisfied. So it takes a large group of listeners with an
affinity to make each individual happy with the station.
----
Freeform stations


(List cut).

Most of the stations you list that are in rated markets have essentially no
listeners. A few, like the stellar KUT in Austin, are highly rated (KUT is
5th in Austin) because they have focus and structure and are definitely not
free form.

The ones that have no plan fail.

Dumbass.
http://www.libertypost.org/cgi-bin/r...?ArtNum=269094

I didn't wrote the title of that article about DUMBASS B HO the
USURPER, somebody else did.I might plagiarize it though.
cuhulin

Haw Haw Haw!
B HO the DUMBASS!
cuhulin

On Jul 12, 1:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:



It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
*today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...


yea right, 10 companies, own 90% of almost all media. in some small
cities, one or two companies own it all. you switch the channel, and
hear the same thing. you really do need to get out more.


It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.



a corporatists response.



And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. *In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.



have you even been in the natural, or organic stores in your area? or
smaller chains, you would be amazed. in my metro area, there are 3
smaller grocery store chains, one has a whole aisle of soda pop, made
with pure cane sugar, in glass bottles mostly, but also pony kegs, and
many brands get wiped out over the weekend, and the pony kegs go even
faster. you really need to get out more. you are locked in a
corporatist mentality.



The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

*yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
*you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

*at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

*but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

*snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

Hey Nickname, My alter ego nickname is Alice.
cuhulin

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 1:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music
research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard
economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...


yea right, 10 companies, own 90% of almost all media. in some small
cities, one or two companies own it all. you switch the channel, and
hear the same thing. you really do need to get out more.

The top 10 commercial broadcast companies in radio own around 1600 stations
today, with the #10 clocking in at just over 70 stations. That's out of
14,000 and some stations in the US, not counting LPFMs and translators.

So the top groups own 12% to 13% of all stations, and the next tier, 11 to
20, represents only about 300 stations, and among them is a group in the
Dakotas and surrounding areas where some of the markets are 30,000 people.

It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.

a corporatists response.

Nah. I've watched local unsigned artist music, with one or two exceptions,
tank quite royally from the Bay Area to Buenos Aires. And by watching, I
mean this... local people who listen to local stations and go to local shows
and local clubs... take a look at it
http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio%20Research.htm

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice?
The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional
allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at
what
level and the resultant sales.

have you even been in the natural, or organic stores in your area? or
smaller chains, you would be amazed. in my metro area, there are 3
smaller grocery store chains, one has a whole aisle of soda pop, made
with pure cane sugar, in glass bottles mostly, but also pony kegs, and
many brands get wiped out over the weekend, and the pony kegs go even
faster. you really need to get out more. you are locked in a
corporatist mentality.

There will always be niche markets, where people who are looking for
specialized products will drive farther and spend more money. But that kind
of store is the equivalent of narrowcasting... and for that, we have today
iPods and the web and all kinds of other distribution models.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format
concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.

There is no difference in whether an independent can get a song played today
than in the past. In fact, with so many more formats than there were in the
50's and 60's, the number of new songs played per week in a market is many
times more than it was when you had multiple top 40, multiple MOR and a
couple of r&b or countrry stations.

And if the guy at the Mercedes plant near Tuscaloosa puts a green fender on
a gray car, he gets a warning, and then fired. Why would we not exepect our
product to be as finely crafted as any other? Like I said, the stations you
mentioned in the Twin Cities would not allow deviation from the playlist...
and a jock that did so would be warned, and then fired.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?

Yeah, the ones that were successful did.

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!

No, and that is not true today, either. The largest owns about 800 stations,
with a significnt number in a trust pending their sale. The next largest has
about half that, and by the time you get to the 6th largest, they have
around 75 stations. And, to put things in perspective, the average McDonalds
grosses about twice what the average US radio station did 2 years ago. Now,
it's probably 3 to 1 in favor of the Mickey D place.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of
the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

Infomericals are what stations that can't compete do... or they sell
brokered hours... or run religious shows that are paid based on donations...
or they rent the station to someone who does a format in Hindi or Russian or
Farsi.

Those stations, mainly AM, can't compete because 90% of major market AM
stations do not cover the market fully day and night, so they can't
challenge the bigger stations, and they do whatever it takes to bring in
revenue. Of about 1800 AMs in the top 100 markets, about 210 are viable. The
rest can run the stuff that pays the bills and leaves a little on the side.

wrote in message
...
Hey Nickname, My alter ego nickname is Alice.
cuhulin


Lay off the sauce, feed Blueberry dog and chill.

It is True, my alter ego, pretend gal's name is Alice.I named ''her''
myself.Maybe that married Irish woman wayyyyyy over yonder across the
big pond is right, maybe I am getting old and penile.y'all should have
seen what I was wearing under my Dickies work pants and my shirt last
Tuesday when I stopped off at the Goodwill store on my way to the Lowe's
store.I am going to the Lowe's store again in the morning for some more
2'' by 4''s for my old trailer.Of course I will stop off at the Goodwill
store first. www.shopgoodwill.com From the Lowe's store, I will go
across Highway 18 to the GNC store.I want to see if GNC sells some
testosterone blocker stuff.
I haven't had any booze since last February.
cuhulin