"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

On Jul 11, 10:11*pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 6:09 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



That market now has more than 20 differentiable choices in formats. that
is
nearly 7 times the number of choices as before.

every city has 13 million people. have you ever heard of play lists?
that means someone else chooses what you are listening to. most
stations use play lists.

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." *All that means is that the person in charge of programming has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.




most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.



Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.



yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:

About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.


that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.

The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.


most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a playlist
TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

"Brenda Ann" wrote in message
...

"David Eduardo" wrote in message
...


Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format
concept that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based
entirely on the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

The "Drake" format, a top 30 format, preceded the top 40 format. Even back
then, stations figured out that there is such a thing as limiting a
playlist TOO much. Something current broadcasters seem to have forgotten.

OMG.

Top 40's concept was developed by Todd Storz in 1952, and put on the air at
KOWH in Omaha in August of that year. By the mid 50's there were several
hundred top 40 stations in the US... and Canada, and Mexico and all over the
world.

Bill Drake's update of the format, developed in Fresno in 1963 and 1964,
debuted on KHJ in Los Angeles in 1965. While the existing Top 40's played
the 40 hits, Drake played those 40 hits but added "gold" songs to the
library and expanded the list to well over 100 songs. Drake never played a
top 30 list, ever. Did I say "ever?"

In fact, the "big deal" with Drake was that KHJ beat existing Top 40 LA
stations KFWB and KRLA in just a few months, and then KFRC in San Francisco
beat KEWB and KYA just as fast.

I had a top 40 on the air in Quito, Ecuador, a year before Drake debuted
KHJ.

You have your dates and formats and names reversed.

On Jul 12, 12:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 11, 10:11 pm, "David Eduardo" wrote:



About 99.9% of the radio stations in the Western Hemisphere have
"playlists." All that means is that the person in charge of programming
has
determined what songs can be played, how often and such.

*that's right, in the free market, someone else tells me what to
listen to. it was not always so.

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station determines
what songs are played and not played.



today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.


And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide on
each song.



you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...

It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.

And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.


The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.


yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.


Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.


at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?


And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.


but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!


nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

On Jul 12, 1:56*am, "David Eduardo" wrote:
"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message

...
On Jul 12, 12:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:



It was always so for the vast majority of decades and stations. Just as
someone at a supermarket determines what products, sizes and varieties of
products to stock... and not stock, someone in each radio station
determines
what songs are played and not played.

today, a playlist from some corporate goon in new york determines
what gets played, and what does not. in my youth, i got to hear lots
of local garage bands get air time, then make it national.
*today, that would not happen, its the playlist, and nothing else.

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...


yea right, 10 companies, own 90% of almost all media. in some small
cities, one or two companies own it all. you switch the channel, and
hear the same thing. you really do need to get out more.


It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.



a corporatists response.



And just like the supermarket, which uses research, sales tabulations and
such to deteermine desirable procuts, radio does the same thing to decide
on
each song.

you are a kool aid drinker aren't you. many local grocery stores
stock products from small suppliers, with out all of the above goobly
gook.

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice? The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. *In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at what
level and the resultant sales.



have you even been in the natural, or organic stores in your area? or
smaller chains, you would be amazed. in my metro area, there are 3
smaller grocery store chains, one has a whole aisle of soda pop, made
with pure cane sugar, in glass bottles mostly, but also pony kegs, and
many brands get wiped out over the weekend, and the pony kegs go even
faster. you really need to get out more. you are locked in a
corporatist mentality.



The idea that there are musicologist-type DJs rummaging through
thousands
of
records is a myth, and in the few cases such exists or has existed, most
have failed.

most have been taken over by corporate america, then came the play
lists.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

*yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
*you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.

Stations had playlists in the 30's, just as they had lists of the
commercials they had to run, called a log.

yes they did. but the disk jockeys would not get fired if they dared
to play something not on the play list.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

*at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

*but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!

nice try, in free market america, you have tons of choices, that are
almost all the same.

And that, in radio, is quite untrue.

i live in a metro area with about 3.5 million people, not only is
radio ****, so is t.v., and both daily papers. prior to 1981, it was
not so.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

*snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

Hey Nickname, My alter ego nickname is Alice.
cuhulin

"Nickname unavailable" wrote in message
...
On Jul 12, 1:56 am, "David Eduardo" wrote:

Actually, in most rated markets significant stations do local music
research
and determine the playlist based on that local data. Given the hard
economic
times, many stations have reduced such costs, but they make themselves
vulnerable to competitors...


yea right, 10 companies, own 90% of almost all media. in some small
cities, one or two companies own it all. you switch the channel, and
hear the same thing. you really do need to get out more.

The top 10 commercial broadcast companies in radio own around 1600 stations
today, with the #10 clocking in at just over 70 stations. That's out of
14,000 and some stations in the US, not counting LPFMs and translators.

So the top groups own 12% to 13% of all stations, and the next tier, 11 to
20, represents only about 300 stations, and among them is a group in the
Dakotas and surrounding areas where some of the markets are 30,000 people.

It´s precisely the local research that shows that there is no interest in
the generally bad songs by the local bands, so they don't get played.

a corporatists response.

Nah. I've watched local unsigned artist music, with one or two exceptions,
tank quite royally from the Bay Area to Buenos Aires. And by watching, I
mean this... local people who listen to local stations and go to local shows
and local clubs... take a look at it
http://www.davidgleason.com/Radio%20Research.htm

How many people go to little local grocery stores if they have a choice?
The
prices are higher, the assortment is limited, etc. In any case, customers
are going to want their preferred products no matter where they buy. The
bigger markets analyze sales data, and combined with promotional
allowances
and such, calculate what will sell and have the most shelf turns and most
profit. They can even analyze how many inches of facing to give and at
what
level and the resultant sales.

have you even been in the natural, or organic stores in your area? or
smaller chains, you would be amazed. in my metro area, there are 3
smaller grocery store chains, one has a whole aisle of soda pop, made
with pure cane sugar, in glass bottles mostly, but also pony kegs, and
many brands get wiped out over the weekend, and the pony kegs go even
faster. you really need to get out more. you are locked in a
corporatist mentality.

There will always be niche markets, where people who are looking for
specialized products will drive farther and spend more money. But that kind
of store is the equivalent of narrowcasting... and for that, we have today
iPods and the web and all kinds of other distribution models.

Not so. Playlists existed back to the time of live bands at local radio
staitons... someone determined the songs the bands would play. And since
recorded music has been a staple of American radio, going back to the
rejection of the AFM rules and Petrillo's policies, stations have
pre-programmed music in almost every instance. In fact, the format
concept
that "saved radio" in the early and mid-50's, Top 40, was based entirely
on
the concept of a playlist and zero deviation from it.

yes there has been in the past, except, they were flexible. today,
see if a jockey was to sneak in something not on the playlist, see
what would happen to such jockey. its why independents can no longer
get airtime, but when i was a kid, they did.
you are simply a hard wired free market apologist.

There is no difference in whether an independent can get a song played today
than in the past. In fact, with so many more formats than there were in the
50's and 60's, the number of new songs played per week in a market is many
times more than it was when you had multiple top 40, multiple MOR and a
couple of r&b or countrry stations.

And if the guy at the Mercedes plant near Tuscaloosa puts a green fender on
a gray car, he gets a warning, and then fired. Why would we not exepect our
product to be as finely crafted as any other? Like I said, the stations you
mentioned in the Twin Cities would not allow deviation from the playlist...
and a jock that did so would be warned, and then fired.

Hmm... in the mid 60's, the first person I fired as a PD was a guy who
played one song that was not approved.

at your station. back then, there were 1000's of independently owned
stations. are you telling me that they all operated the same?

Yeah, the ones that were successful did.

And if you worked for Storz or McLendon or Burden or Crowell-Collier or
any
of the big operators of music stations in the 50's and broke format, you
were gone.

but, was there 10 companies or less that own just about all radio
stations in america? not!

No, and that is not true today, either. The largest owns about 800 stations,
with a significnt number in a trust pending their sale. The next largest has
about half that, and by the time you get to the 6th largest, they have
around 75 stations. And, to put things in perspective, the average McDonalds
grosses about twice what the average US radio station did 2 years ago. Now,
it's probably 3 to 1 in favor of the Mickey D place.

Probably the stations have adjusted to contemporary taste of the target
audience, which is generally 18-49 or 25-54, and you are either out of
the
demographic or have not kept up with current taste.

snicker, infomercials are entertainment, that is how far we have
sunk. you are part of the problem, that is why corporate media is
failing.

Infomericals are what stations that can't compete do... or they sell
brokered hours... or run religious shows that are paid based on donations...
or they rent the station to someone who does a format in Hindi or Russian or
Farsi.

Those stations, mainly AM, can't compete because 90% of major market AM
stations do not cover the market fully day and night, so they can't
challenge the bigger stations, and they do whatever it takes to bring in
revenue. Of about 1800 AMs in the top 100 markets, about 210 are viable. The
rest can run the stuff that pays the bills and leaves a little on the side.