In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/15/2011 11:03 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/15/2011 5:46 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

No, Scout: Nvidia has *chosen* not to compete... ...for now.

Last quarter, Mac sales were up to 13% in the US. Think about that.

a 13% increase of a small number.....is still a small number.

Mac sales constitute about 4.5% of all new PC sales.

BFD

No, no.

Mac sales didn't increase by 13%. Mac sales in the US were 13% of all
personal computers sold in the last quarter.


I was just thinking, that probably only encompasses whole, complete
computers ... since I build my own, and most of my families and friends
computers, they are not even counted ... in the final analysis, you can
see that figure simply is not a meaningful representation of the total
PC market ...

You are welcome to present evidence that computers purchased as
components and then assemble form any significant fraction of personal
computer sales...


Don't have to, anyone not living under a rock knows it ... it is
self-apparent ... one would have to stick their head in a hole to miss it.

Regards,
JS

So you have nothing...


I got a nut claiming mac is cutting edge and going to take over the
world lol ... indeed, seems to be a couple of 'em!

Really? Where did anyone claim either of those things?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/15/11 10:46 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/15/2011 8:41 AM, Lloyd E Parsons wrote:

...
I don't think you or I will live long enough to see the 'year of the
mac' if that is defined as Apple being the dominant tech provider.
Not
going to happen.

But the 'year of the Mac' has already happened in the upscale tech
market with consumers with a few bucks.



Yes, I am sure many are heroes in their own mind, have saved the
world,
dominate the markets ... and it would be evil to destroy their
fantasies
... roflol

Still, one must keep a foot in reality ...

Regards,
JS

In business, the reality is growing your sales and profits. In that,
it
has been the year of the Mac for quite awhile now. You are free to
talk
about what volumes of sales are out there in wintel/linux world, but
that
is being done at pathetic profit levels.

Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to laptops.
Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for almost all
applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck for all the
bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar specifications and
build quality are all pretty much the same in cost.

Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops.

Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of laptops
sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market


But Apple makes most of the profit...

:-)

Shows they overprice their goods....

Since more and more people are buying them, how does it show that?


Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at buying
their products.

I think people look at what they actually get--a computer that works
better for them--and then they look at what the price represents in
terms of cost per day and they realize that the differential is well
worth it.

:-)

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
RD Sandman wrote:

Overall, desktop sales on all platforms is down as more go to
laptops. Primarily because laptops now have enough performance for
almost all applications and the prices are down quite a bit. Heck
for all the bitching about Apple's prices, laptops with similar
specifications and build quality are all pretty much the same in
cost.

Apple just doesn't do cheap laptops.

Which is why Apple sells only a small fraction of the number of
laptops sold. PC dominates over Mac even in the laptop market


But Apple makes most of the profit...

:-)

Shows they overprice their goods....

Not exactly a positive thing from the view point of anyone looking at
buying their products.




But an excellent one from theirs as long as it doesn't drastically reduce
sales. With the charisma Apple seems to hold, I don't think that is much
of a problem. It is like the folks who love to own Cadillacs. It
doesn't cost much more to produce a Cadillac than it does Chevy, but
compare the price and the cachet.

No.

Because a Cadillac is still a POS GM product. A Mac actually does work
better for ordinary people.

My business is supporting Mac users and I'm in serious trouble with my
clients who have single machines or even small all-Mac networks, because
they no longer need much of my support.

I went to visit one client the other day for a very small email issue
and I realized that it had been a couple of YEARS since I last did any
work for that company.

I'd say that for them, the Mac has worked out very well; not so well for
me.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta
love it!!

But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX (unix)
machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer!

Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux you
want and save a $1000 ...

Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400 bucks, or
under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc. you
can
put together a decent gaming computer for a grand!

I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this,
but...

...most people have no interest in building their own computers.


Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the
ones buying macs are proof enough of that ...

No.

That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people.

Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well.

No. They do not.


So what's your point?

Most people have neither the interest nor the knowledge to build their
own systems.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Lloyd E Parsons" wrote in message
...
On 10/16/11 2:09 PM, Scout wrote:


"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

LOL! MS for a non-techie, balanced comparison of the two! Ya gotta
love it!!

But keep in mind, if you buy a Mac you have both a solid OSX
(unix)
machine as well as a great Windows box too! A twofer!

Or you can buy a bare drive PC and load whatever version of Linux
you
want and save a $1000 ...

Or, you can just grap the components, build your own for 400
bucks, or
under ... building your own, shopping sales, ebay, newegg, etc.
you can
put together a decent gaming computer for a grand!

I realize that the zealot in you will prevent you from grasping this,
but...

...most people have no interest in building their own computers.


Oh, much worse than that, they don't even wish to own a decent one, the
ones buying macs are proof enough of that ...

No.

That they are buying Macs is proof they work well for normal people.

Hmmm.... and component built systems work 4 times as well.

So what's your point?


work 4 times as well doing what?

The number of people buying them.


So in other words, nothing like what you said.

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Howard Brazee" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.

Cite?


http://www.etforecasts.com/products/ES_pcww1203.htm

http://srl.gatech.edu/Members/ashah/...is_aditya_abhi
nav.pdf

http://www.inquisitr.com/76157/table...-sales-by-2015
-laptops-will-still-reign/

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article ,
John Smith wrote:

On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC
can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ...
do
the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and
start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the
MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do
it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the
faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...id=A0D622CE9F5
79F
09
&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things"
when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play
video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering
and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults
can't
...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior
in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this
reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch
over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning
any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their
cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ...
that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?


But, I will ... you can make book on that.

Regards,
JS


Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can
be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up
seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the
capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you
probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some
prompting to seek a cure ..

Sorry, but you're now deflecting.

You claimed that a high-powered GPU was useful for "compiling and
linking".

Let's see a cite.

http://www.nvidia.com/object/tesla_c...solutions.html

Where does that mention "compiling and linking" on an individual
personal computer is sped up by a faster GPU?


GPU, the supercomputer of the 21st century.

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade
-making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again



--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

"Alan Baker" wrote in message
...
In article , John Smith
wrote:

On 10/13/2011 9:45 AM, John Smith wrote:
On 10/13/2011 12:05 AM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/12/2011 10:47 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

Hey, I am not the one into social standards!

I freely admit that a MAC can do anything a PC can do ... the
PC can
just do it faster, cheaper and usually better ...

Really? Better in what way? Give a concrete example...


Snap in a high end NVIDIA or ATI card into our PC with a high
res HD
monitor, sit in next to a MAC ... you will see what I mean ...
do the
same with audio ...

You mean, like this:

http://www.nvidia.com/object/product-quadro-4000-mac-us.html

And with audio, do you mean like this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/ProFireLightbridge.html

Or this:

http://www.m-audio.com/products/en_us/Delta1010.html

Or perhaps this:

http://www.motu.com/products/pciaudio/HD192/specs.html


No plug your SDR amateur rig into the USB port of your PC and
start
using it ... notice that there is no software available for the
MAC
...
linux is covered with an app, etc., etc., etc.

Really? No software at all, huh?

http://www.rfspace.com/RFSPACE/CuteSDR.html


You keep putting words in my mouth, seems like I said a PC can do
it
better ... that was the part you choose to dispute, not the
faster,
cheaper ... or the fact that PC stays current with uptodate
software/codecs/drivers/hardware/firmware ...

I asked how it did it better and you responded with things that
(apparently) you thought you couldn't do with a Mac.


Got a comparison to this card for the PC:

http://pressroom.nvidia.com/easyir/c...rid=A0D622CE9F
579
F09

&v
ers
ion=live&releasejsp=release_157&xhtml=true&prid=73 6275

I don't need one.


Good thing too ... as you will have to "not need a lot of things"
when
running a MAC! Superior video is just one of them ... if you play
video
games, you can forget the ones which have no MAC version ...

Regards,
JS

LOL

And now it comes out: what you want "superior video" for is...

...video games!


There are virtually NO applications which are as demanding as video
games on a home PC. Since I contract to develop software, and
compiler/linker speeds are important to me, it is worth considering
and
benchmarking ... however, what am I, one out of 10,000 who runs such
a
demanding commercial app? So, of course video games become the best
universal benchmark -- any child can run them, even if the adults
can't ...

No, actually. Video games are hard on VIDEO performance, John. Almost
all of the processing load they create is handled by the GPU...

...a part which plays essentially no useful role in compiling and
linking software.


However, you are doing the best you can. At this point, your have
realized and woken up to reality, and that the MAC is vastly inferior
in
comparison to even mid range PC's ... when confronted with this
reality,
and one realizes they have taken a false position, one must switch
over
to personal attacks on their opposite in the argument ... abandoning
any
hope of proving their false positions to be correct.

The Mac is better for normal people, John. They want a machine that is
easy to use and that doesn't have problems.

Most people don't want to modify their computers with performance
add-ons any more than they want to do the analogous things to their
cars.


It will also help to lock your mind into denial, and think that no
one
here will be smart enough to see what is going on, the desperation
and
desperate tact's you are being forced to take, to believe they will
become obfuscated by the false complexities of your diversions ...
that
they will not notice you switching subjects, points, facts ... etc.

You mean like claiming that video card performance is important to
compiling?


But, I will ... you can make book on that.

Regards,
JS


Your post shows your total lack of knowledge that the GPU processor can
be utilized to run/assist in the running of demanding apps ... load up
seti software (POINC, actually), a freely available app which has the
capabilities and gives a good demonstration of the advantages ... you
probably aren't such a bad guy, just an ignorant one who needs some
prompting to seek a cure ..

Regards,
JS


BOINC even ... list of BOINC projects he

http://boinc.berkeley.edu/projects.php

Excerpt from that:

"Note: if your computer is equipped with a Graphics Processing Unit
(GPU), you may be able to use it to compute faster. "

And not one word that says you be able to compile or link faster...

http://www.popsci.com/science/articl...ng-gpu-upgrade
-making-it-worlds-fastest-supercomputer-again

Read it and weep.


Which mentions compiling and linking on a personal computer, where?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg

On 10/16/2011 1:39 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
John wrote:

On 10/15/2011 11:02 PM, Alan Baker wrote:
In ,
. net wrote:

"Howard wrote in message
...
On Thu, 13 Oct 2011 19:00:47 -0700, John
wrote:

Like I say, outside of academia, I just don't see that many MACs

I don't see what academia use, I don't see what most companies use.
But I do see what people have in coffee houses - and there are lots of
Macs there.

That's about where you're going to find them since 3/4 of Macs being sold
are the laptops. The Mac desktop market keeps shrinking.


No, Scout:

THE desktop market keeps shrinking.


Light duty use, traveling, you are just stuck with a laptop ...


If by "light duty use" you mean: "just about everything that the average
person wants to do with a computer".


But, try to load one up with massive storage, 32 gigs ram, excellent
video card, etc. and it sucks the battery like pouring water out of a
bucket ... some will try to go total laptop ... but if you need powerful
computing power and support hardware, forget it ... plus, no real
upgrade potential ... you have to trash it every year.

No, actually, you don't.

I'm typing this on my now nearly 4 year old MacBook Pro which does all I
want it to do.

And most people don't need "powerful computing power" [sic]. They didn't
need what passed for powerful 5 years ago and they certainly don't need
the power that a high-end desktop has.


Now I see how you can recommend junk to those contemplating the purchase
of a computer ... laptops are barely acceptable for most all commercial
applications ...

Regards,
JS

In article ,
"Scout" wrote:

When I see massive changes in my family friends, the computers I
maintain
and repair, the industry I work in ... I will, I simply won't have a
choice ... at this time, it is simply a non-issue ... makes me really
question those figures ...

When you control only about 4-4.5% of the market....a 13% increase in
sales
doesn't really show up as anything significant.

I would suspect the increase is drive by I-Pad sales....not Mac. For all
we
know the sale of Macintosh computers has dropped off.

Actually, no. We know that the Mac computers sales have increased and
outgrown the rest of the personal computer market for something like 22
straight quarters.

I assume you have a mouse in your pocket?

I have the facts.

What have you got?

--
Alan Baker
Vancouver, British Columbia
http://gallery.me.com/alangbaker/100008/DSCF0162/web.jpg