On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 23:49:09 -0700, the renowned miso
wrote:

On 10/27/2011 11:26 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Truth Teller
wrote:

Counterfeit UL Labels from China http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics...ul-labels-from

I believe that most of the time the buyers are aware that there is
something fishy and look the other way. Very good quality terminal
blocks from China with tracable cUL and VDE approvals are X CNY, less
good ones without approvals are X/2.5.

What kind of irresponsible buyer fails to check the certification
number with CSA/UL/ETL or fails to schedule a pre-shipment inspection
at the factory? The added cost is a small percentage of even a small
shipment of a container load or two.

I've heard some of these jokers (last week, as it happens) say that
the product "must have UL _markings_". That's all they care about, and
the factory must comply or they lose the order.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This is the first I heard of fake UL stickers.

Unfortunately, I can't say the same. I was tempted to buy a big roll
of green RoHS or CE stickers to stick all over the place, but..

By buyer, you mean the store and not the customer.

Yes, of course- the professional buyers for the store or the
wholesaler or the importer. The end purchaser should be able to trust
the store (and steer clear if it's a guy selling from the back of a
truck or whatever).

Well, I hope that is
what you mean. The customer sees the UL label and just assumes it is legit.

Occasionally I will get cheap ass stuff from Harbor Freight, but I
refuse to buy anything from them that plugs into the mains. I was in the
store once when a guy was returning a sawzall that caught fire.

I bought some metal power bars recently (about 4' long) that looked
pretty decent, but I don't usually buy their electric power tools.
Their air tools seem decent.

The power bars are marked with the factory name and their model
number, but interestingly the model I have (EM1201) is not listed in
the ETL/Intertek database, but the similar EM1201M is.. and Harbor
Fright seems to have discontinued the product. As it's all metal I'm
not particularly worried- unless the sockets pull out, it can't do
much that's bad.

Getting back to generators, a Yamaha costs about 3x the Chinese junk. I
can see why people buy Chinese, but I'd sure hate to have to depend on
the Chinese item working when I need it.

There's good and bad- the worst stuff is pretty bad. You don't hear
about the AC adapters made for Dell or Apple causing much trouble,
despite enormous quantities and cutthroat cheap prices. There are
several basic kinds of factories in China- from wholly owned foreign
ones to joint ventures, to state companies, to local firms. Unless
they have some history of supplying picky customers (especially
European and Japanese exports) the lower end ones can be pretty
dodgy.. many, many concentrate on the large and (so far) less
discriminating domestic market. There are probably as many as 1,000
factories making generators, for example, certainly in the hundreds.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany
--
"it's the network..." "The Journey is the reward"
Info for manufacturers: http://www.trexon.com
Embedded software/hardware/analog Info for designers: http://www.speff.com

On a sunny day (Thu, 27 Oct 2011 19:30:46 -0600) it happened m II
wrote in :

This is the starter solenoid from a 5kw Chinese diesel generator
(Launtop powered):

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-1.jpg

The machine has two hours TOTAL running time. Note the quality rubber
boot.

There was a warning a couple of years ago about Chinese rubber.
This had to do with Chinese scooters, the rubbers seem to fall apart
after a year and you can throw the whole thing away.
You want Taiwan.
I had Chinese rubber bands that just fell apart after some weeks.
Bought from a respectable place (Albert Heijn here).
So stay clear of anything that has Chinese rubbers in it.



Also note the soldered connections. Those are the solenoid winding
terminations. You can NOT get at the contacts until you de-solder the
wires. I learned that when I had to clean the non-conducting starter
contacts on another, similar, Launtop machine.

The cheap 3 dollar 4 some cents Chinese multimeters I bough have also
great lead free soldering, note how the shunt is soldered:
I do no cry easily, but you must have read in the news that Bangkok flooded:
http://panteltje.com/pub/3_dollar_me...l_img_3160.jpg




This is the reason why the starter wouldn't crank the engine over:

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-2.jpg

oops


I'm lucky the broken piece didn't get caught in the flywheel ring gear.



This is from the socket set I used to remove the battery terminal lug
nuts with.

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-3.jpg

There are a lot of very cheap tool sets around made of steel 10 (if that exists).


Care to guess where they were made?



This particular model of Launtop generator is sold under dozens of
different names. There has been a recall on them. They have counterfeit
ISO 2001, CE and Canadian Standards Association (like UL) decals on them.=


The breakers are also improperly marked. The Canadian Standards people
are doing NOTHING to help me, despite the fraudulent use of their
Trademarked logo. Launtop is also doing nothing. Red maple seems to be
conveniently out of business.


http://tinyurl.com/6zrfft



Don't buy Chinese.

Generalisation is a very dangerous thing.
They have good stuff too.
Lots of it.

Inform yourself before you buy, google will tell you how the situation is
for a particular product.

If you did not type the product name and something like 'review' or 'problem'
or 'experience' in google, then you were gambling.
The same goes for any country, or product.
My opinion of my Samsung 3D TV is there as a warning on my site for anybody for example.
And that is not Chinese.
Sometimes you learn the hard way.
And, for that money you got to accept some things sometimes too,
especially if it can be easily fixed, as with that cheap meter,

miso wrote:

On 10/27/2011 11:26 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 21:09:12 -0700 (PDT), the renowned Truth Teller
wrote:

Counterfeit UL Labels from China http://www.mysaline.com/forum/topics...ul-labels-from

I believe that most of the time the buyers are aware that there is
something fishy and look the other way. Very good quality terminal
blocks from China with tracable cUL and VDE approvals are X CNY, less
good ones without approvals are X/2.5.

What kind of irresponsible buyer fails to check the certification
number with CSA/UL/ETL or fails to schedule a pre-shipment inspection
at the factory? The added cost is a small percentage of even a small
shipment of a container load or two.

I've heard some of these jokers (last week, as it happens) say that
the product "must have UL _markings_". That's all they care about, and
the factory must comply or they lose the order.


Best regards,
Spehro Pefhany

This is the first I heard of fake UL stickers.

By buyer, you mean the store and not the customer. Well, I hope that is
what you mean. The customer sees the UL label and just assumes it is legit.

Occasionally I will get cheap ass stuff from Harbor Freight, but I
refuse to buy anything from them that plugs into the mains. I was in the
store once when a guy was returning a sawzall that caught fire.

Getting back to generators, a Yamaha costs about 3x the Chinese junk. I
can see why people buy Chinese, but I'd sure hate to have to depend on
the Chinese item working when I need it.

The most interesting fact is that everything is made in China these
days. That Yamaha generator is also made in China but Yamaha is
probably on top of quality control. The same generators are probably
sold under many different brands with lesser components.

--
Failure does not prove something is impossible, failure simply
indicates you are not using the right tools...
nico@nctdevpuntnl (punt=.)
--------------------------------------------------------------

On 10/27/2011 9:30 PM, m II wrote:

I've had it with Chinese garbage. The amount of trash they produce each
year staggers the imagination. What's even more amazing is that we
continue to buy it. 'Customer' is quickly becoming synonymous with 'Stupid'.

Do you want "cheap" or do you want "good"?

Pick ONE.

On 10/27/11 20:30 , m II wrote:


I've had it with Chinese garbage. The amount of trash they produce each
year staggers the imagination. What's even more amazing is that we
continue to buy it. 'Customer' is quickly becoming synonymous with 'Stupid'.


This is the starter solenoid from a 5kw Chinese diesel generator
(Launtop powered):

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-1.jpg

The machine has two hours TOTAL running time. Note the quality rubber
boot. Also note the soldered connections. Those are the solenoid winding
terminations. You can NOT get at the contacts until you de-solder the
wires. I learned that when I had to clean the non-conducting starter
contacts on another, similar, Launtop machine.





Yeah, I had a generator, this summer, throw a rod through the
garage wall. The finest Chinese machine work you'd ever like to see
punch a hole in a building.

Went with a Generac from Whitewater, Wisconsin.

On Fri, 28 Oct 2011 00:23:22 -0700, "Bill"
wrote:

I'm buying old electrical products from 2nd hand stores now. I got an
old 1940's Kirby all metal vacuum which still runs great! Got several
old 1960's phones which work when the power goes out. Got an old
1950's sewing machine - all metal. Etc.

And I have the money to buy brand new. I have bought brand new and the
things don't last but a month sometimes! I'm fed up, so back to old
for me...

Be careful. Longevity is one thing, but safety standards were not
nearly as high in the old days-- both insulation safety standards and
inclusion of things like approved thermal cutoffs. There used to be
hundreds of people dying every year from fires caused by televisions,
and I've been shocked a few times by the old metal power tools that
developed internal shorts. Some old TVs and radios were "hot" chassis.

On Oct 28, 5:39*am, "D. Peter Maus" wrote:
On 10/27/11 20:30 , m II wrote:







I've had it with Chinese garbage. The amount of trash they produce each
year staggers the imagination. What's even more amazing is that we
continue to buy it. 'Customer' is quickly becoming synonymous with 'Stupid'.

This is the starter solenoid from a 5kw Chinese diesel generator
(Launtop powered):

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-1.jpg

The machine has two hours TOTAL running time. Note the quality rubber
boot. Also note the soldered connections. Those are the solenoid winding
terminations. You can NOT get at the contacts until you de-solder the
wires. I learned that when I had to clean the non-conducting starter
contacts on another, similar, Launtop machine.

* *Yeah, I had a generator, this summer, throw a rod through the
garage wall. The finest Chinese machine work you'd ever like to see
punch a hole in a building.

* *Went with a Generac from Whitewater, Wisconsin.-

The same company who made the generator that failed after 5 months.
They won't honor the two years warrenty because i am over-using it
(200 hours). It's a standby generator, i am not suppose to use it,
stupid.

By the way, should I sue a WI company in Federal court? I don't think
they registered in CA.

On 10/28/11 10:15 , linnix wrote:
On Oct 28, 5:39 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 10/27/11 20:30 , m II wrote:







I've had it with Chinese garbage. The amount of trash they produce each
year staggers the imagination. What's even more amazing is that we
continue to buy it. 'Customer' is quickly becoming synonymous with 'Stupid'.

This is the starter solenoid from a 5kw Chinese diesel generator
(Launtop powered):

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-1.jpg

The machine has two hours TOTAL running time. Note the quality rubber
boot. Also note the soldered connections. Those are the solenoid winding
terminations. You can NOT get at the contacts until you de-solder the
wires. I learned that when I had to clean the non-conducting starter
contacts on another, similar, Launtop machine.

Yeah, I had a generator, this summer, throw a rod through the
garage wall. The finest Chinese machine work you'd ever like to see
punch a hole in a building.

Went with a Generac from Whitewater, Wisconsin.-

The same company who made the generator that failed after 5 months.
They won't honor the two years warrenty because i am over-using it
(200 hours). It's a standby generator, i am not suppose to use it,
stupid.

Mine is a continuous service generator. So, it's built to a
different standard. A standby is a different animal.

That said, you don't really get to pick when your power is out.
That distinction may be due for a revision.

On 10/28/11 10:39 , linnix wrote:
On Oct 28, 8:37 am, D Peter wrote:
On 10/28/11 10:23 , linnix wrote:





On Oct 28, 8:19 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 10/28/11 10:15 , linnix wrote:

On Oct 28, 5:39 am, "D. Peter wrote:
On 10/27/11 20:30 , m II wrote:

I've had it with Chinese garbage. The amount of trash they produce each
year staggers the imagination. What's even more amazing is that we
continue to buy it. 'Customer' is quickly becoming synonymous with 'Stupid'.

This is the starter solenoid from a 5kw Chinese diesel generator
(Launtop powered):

http://www.scotiabunk.com/Quality/small-1.jpg

The machine has two hours TOTAL running time. Note the quality rubber
boot. Also note the soldered connections. Those are the solenoid winding
terminations. You can NOT get at the contacts until you de-solder the
wires. I learned that when I had to clean the non-conducting starter
contacts on another, similar, Launtop machine.

Yeah, I had a generator, this summer, throw a rod through the
garage wall. The finest Chinese machine work you'd ever like to see
punch a hole in a building.

Went with a Generac from Whitewater, Wisconsin.-

The same company who made the generator that failed after 5 months.
They won't honor the two years warrenty because i am over-using it
(200 hours). It's a standby generator, i am not suppose to use it,
stupid.

Mine is a continuous service generator. So, it's built to a
different standard. A standby is a different animal.

That said, you don't really get to pick when your power is out.
That distinction may be due for a revision

But failed after 200 hours? That's less than two weeks of use.

True. Depending on maintenance, that should be a brisk walk for this
kind of product. Regardless of build.

How often did you change the oil?

They says every 200 hours. I didn't know they mean changing the
machine every 200 hours.


Some generators are made for intermittent service, only. A few
hours on, many hours off. Too many hours on and metal fatigue sets in.

This is to accomodate a price point.

You may have, indeed, overrun the machine's ability to serve in a
continuous stretch.


And did you do a break-in change?

Yes.

The rotor lock up, perhaps by the starter.

On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 18:59:01 -0700, John Smith
wrote:

On 10/27/2011 6:30 PM, m II wrote:
[snip]
The evil is a bit more hidden that what you see there, on the surface.

Planned obsolescence causes you to purchase new items to replace the
old. The costs in resources, energy, oil, creation of pollution/toxins,
dumps fill with obnoxious wastes, etc. is slowly poisoning not only all
of us, but the whole planet.

The impetus should be placed on strong, durable, long lasting products,
if possible, possessions which will last a lifetime, or even be handed
down. The benefits in cost, heath and happiness would be astounding ...

Such as the Craftsman riding mower that I bought used several years
ago. Made in USA. Powered by Briggs & Stratton. Used weekly about
6-7 months out of the year. I have replaced the blades a couple of
times and the battery about a year ago. Otherwise, maintenance is
changing oil and filters, sharpening blades, new spark plug yearly. I
have a spare set of belts (drive and blades) but haven't yet needed to
replace either of them.

I also have a Craftsman self-propelled walk-behind that's probably 10+
years old. I replaced part of the drive mechanism several years ago.
Maintenance is changing oil, replacing air filter, replacing drive
belt, sharpening blade, new spark plug yearly.


Instead, we are a bunch of "moronic consumers." Trained to buy products
which wear our quickly, so we will consume more ... etc., the cycle is a
very vicious one. Not only depriving us of wealth and happiness, but
even our health and life.

To turn this absurdity of "consumerism" around, at this point, looks
like a monumental task bordering on the line of impossible!

It's all about who can make the widget cheapest and sell it for less.
WaMart wants suppliers to give them better prices each year to keep
their product(s) in the WalMart stores. For one-time-use things,
cheapest may be most economical, such as a drop cloth over an old
bookcase while painting a room - if some minimum level of protection
is adequate, the under $2 drop cloth may be fine. For covering
funriture being moved in the back of a pickup, I'll opt for something
sturdier- the cheapest possible covering will NOT survive the trip.

There are also the "new" gadgets that people don't know are old ideas
resurrected. Example: the Subaru ad touting their "hill holder" -
take your foot off the brake and the car won't roll back while the
clutch is in. The hill holder was introduced on the 1936 Studebaker,
so it's most defintely NOT new.


Indeed, laws are constructed to aid in the filling of dumps, and for
questionable reasons and refusal to debate other alternatives ...

Regards,
JS