Is it any wonder that people felt the HD signal had superior audio
quality? Things don't sound so good when you squash the dynamic range.

Seems to my dynamic range is squashed more in AM/FM broadcasts than in HD.

What's also not being addressed, is that stations are also processing
the dynamics on the HD streams.

It's not being addressed because it's not true.

There is seperate processing. SOme stations don't use virtually any
processing at all on their HD streams.

"D. Peter Maus" wrote in message
...
On 1/17/12 01:03 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 1/16/12 15:30 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 1/16/12 11:35 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"Phil wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 01:55:32 -0500, "FarsWatch4"
wrote:

9 out of 10 doctors also recommended cigarette smoking to aid
and
improve digestion.

Where is this study?

This was highly touted in advertising during the 1940s.

It was an advertising ploy. Not a study, per se.

I hope we can tell the difference.

Insult aside, it WAS indeed based on surveys.

A survey designed by an advertising company....again, I hope you can
tell
the difference.



Insult aside, it was a survey designed by the Tobacco Industry.

Yes it was.

It was a survey designed by the business its conclusion supported.

Yes it was.

The results were used to promote sales the industry's products.

Yes it was.

Not unlike iBiquity designing and sponsoring surveys the results of
which supports sales of its products.

The surveys I have seen were not designed nor sponsored by iBiquity...but
were seperate research projects done by stations themselves by hiring
outside research companies with no stake in the outcome.


As someone who participated in the execution of several such surveys,
that is simply not true.

You mean you couldn't tell when you were being snookered into an advertising
campain?

If you couldn't tell during the execution....you should have been able tot
ell by the results.

"Dave Barnett" wrote in message
...
On 1/16/2012 11:03 PM, FarsWatch4 wrote:

The surveys I have seen were not designed nor sponsored by iBiquity...but
were seperate research projects done by stations themselves by hiring
outside research companies with no stake in the outcome.

You mention "surveys" in the plural. The only one I have seen is this:

Many surveys have been done by individual stations...not by iBiquity.

They are proprietary...and not used as "selling points" as the one you
mentioned is.

where Ibiquity purposely controlled the audio chain to make the
analog sample sound bad. What others are there?

Dave B.

There have been many across the country. I've been involved in 8, I
think. Maybe one more.

If you were involved with EIGHT...maybe more? Then there was something
wrong with the mthodology of this survey...and I highly doubt the subject,
sponsors or the results.

On 1/20/12 15:22 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
What's also not being addressed, is that stations are also processing
the dynamics on the HD streams.

It's not being addressed because it's not true.


Even yet another case where you're denying a simple truth.
Stations ARE processing their HD streams. Sometimes as heavily as
their baseband streams. Which, with increased distortions and
digital artifacts from the lossy encoding algorithm, makes for some
pretty poor, significantly audible, unclean audio.

There is seperate processing. SOme stations don't use virtually any
processing at all on their HD streams.


Most, however, do.

And of the stations I work with, the call, every week from
Programming, and Manglement, is for more processing.

Something I have to adjust everytime I go up to the transmitter.

Now, I, personally, agree with Brenda Ann...there is really no
need for it, with today's audio, and with today's listening
environments...but Radio has never heard it that way.

So, manglement calls for more processing on the HD Streams.

Yes, it does happen. It happens quite a lot, actually.

On 1/20/12 15:23 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 1/17/12 01:03 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 1/16/12 15:30 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"D. Peter wrote in message
...
On 1/16/12 11:35 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"Phil wrote in message
...
On Sat, 14 Jan 2012 01:55:32 -0500, "FarsWatch4"
wrote:

9 out of 10 doctors also recommended cigarette smoking to aid
and
improve digestion.

Where is this study?

This was highly touted in advertising during the 1940s.

It was an advertising ploy. Not a study, per se.

I hope we can tell the difference.

Insult aside, it WAS indeed based on surveys.

A survey designed by an advertising company....again, I hope you can
tell
the difference.



Insult aside, it was a survey designed by the Tobacco Industry.

Yes it was.

It was a survey designed by the business its conclusion supported.

Yes it was.

The results were used to promote sales the industry's products.

Yes it was.

Not unlike iBiquity designing and sponsoring surveys the results of
which supports sales of its products.

The surveys I have seen were not designed nor sponsored by iBiquity...but
were seperate research projects done by stations themselves by hiring
outside research companies with no stake in the outcome.


As someone who participated in the execution of several such surveys,
that is simply not true.

You mean you couldn't tell when you were being snookered into an advertising
campain?


Ah, so you admit that the HD surveys are just an advertising
scheme....thank you for finally admitting the truth.

On 1/20/12 15:25 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
"Dave wrote in message
...
On 1/16/2012 11:03 PM, FarsWatch4 wrote:

The surveys I have seen were not designed nor sponsored by iBiquity...but
were seperate research projects done by stations themselves by hiring
outside research companies with no stake in the outcome.

You mention "surveys" in the plural. The only one I have seen is this:

Many surveys have been done by individual stations...not by iBiquity.

They are proprietary...and not used as "selling points" as the one you
mentioned is.

They most certainly are used as selling points. That's why they
go to the effort and expense of conducting them.

On 1/20/12 15:26 , FarsWatch4 wrote:
where Ibiquity purposely controlled the audio chain to make the
analog sample sound bad. What others are there?

Dave B.

There have been many across the country. I've been involved in 8, I
think. Maybe one more.

If you were involved with EIGHT...maybe more? Then there was something
wrong with the mthodology of this survey


Not at all. 6 were in other markets. 2 were followup studies.

You're not familiar with the way this kind of survey is done.
Rarely just one. Never in a single location. And about 1/3 of the
time with a current followup to note trends in response, or changes
in perceptuals.

On 1/20/2012 1:39 PM, D. Peter Maus wrote:

They most certainly are used as selling points. That's why they go to
the effort and expense of conducting them.

Actually the purpose was to determine the minimum bit rate at which HD
could be broadcast where listeners still gave it high marks for audio
quality. They performed the bit-rate testing for different genres of
music, and for voice, so stations could determine optimal bit rates for
their HD sub-channels. Most stations chose to not go beyond HD2 (HD1
same as analog channel) and one HD2 music sub-channel. There are areas
where there is voice on the sub-channel (sports, religious broadcasts,
etc) where an HD3 sub-channel is acceptable. Once you get below the mid
40's then listeners perceive lower quality audio.

The mistake many people make is trying to claim that just because the
audio is perceived as near CD quality by listeners, that the compression
scheme actually results in audio that is not near CD quality. The fact
is that the broadcasters care about what their listeners perceive, not
what an audiophile might discern, and not what a techie with a spectrum
analyzer might figure out.

Every in-depth test of HD Radio, and every casual evaluation by testers
from publications like the WSJ and CR confirms that HD Radio audio is
perceived as being much higher quality than FM. Of course much of the
reason for this may be that so much FM sound so bad due to multipath.