From: (John S. Dyson)

Kerry had tried to smear practically the entire military, and
any clear thinking person sees that he is the ultimately
inappropriate person for the presidency or any other high level
government executive office. He is CERTAINLY appropriate for
lower level offices or the legislature... Oddballs and kooks
help round out the legislature.


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN. The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

The fact the Kerry called it like it was is one of the reasons I respect him so
much. Nixon tried his best to discredit him and couldn't.


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A,
Degen 1102, GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nospam" to reply)

Michael Bryant wrote:

From: (John S. Dyson)

Kerry had tried to smear practically the entire military, and
any clear thinking person sees that he is the ultimately
inappropriate person for the presidency or any other high level
government executive office. He is CERTAINLY appropriate for
lower level offices or the legislature... Oddballs and kooks
help round out the legislature.


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that...

....You lied about having a PhD, and that you also lied about being fired from
Louisville Technical Institute.

dxAce

In article ,
ospam (Michael Bryant) wrote:

From: (John S. Dyson)

Kerry had tried to smear practically the entire military, and
any clear thinking person sees that he is the ultimately
inappropriate person for the presidency or any other high level
government executive office. He is CERTAINLY appropriate for
lower level offices or the legislature... Oddballs and kooks
help round out the legislature.


Any clear-thinking individual

Snip

You have no basis in "clear-thinking."

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

"Michael Bryant" wrote in message
...

The fact the Kerry called it like it was is one of the reasons I
respect him so
much. Nixon tried his best to discredit him and couldn't.


Well, you seem to have "overlooked" the question in my earlier post in
this thread in your rush to reply to John. Funny how that happens.
However, undaunted, I shall try again with another
soon-to-be-unanswered question. Why would you respect" anyone for
doing something that was simply the politically expedient thing to do
at the time? One of Kerry's obvious strengths as a politician is
sensing which way the wind blows and immediately getting out in front
of it. When he returned from Vietnam with a political career in mind,
he certainly realized that a considerable majority of the opinion
makers in the country were anti-war, and joined them, with his
military service as a ready made podium. Since when is going with the
obvious flow deserving of respect, particularly when one's former
colleagues are still taking fire?

"Michael Bryant" wrote in message


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL


And how you going to manage that with a head full of smoke? It boggles the
mind? LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!



--
73 and good DXing.
Brian
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
A lot of radios and 100' of rusty wire!
Zumbrota, Southern MN
Brian's Radio Universe
http://webpages.charter.net/brianhill/

ospam (Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

Amen and amen, professor. Agreed. No doubt about it. Will we ever
know what precipitated it? Oh yeah .. they told us we were there to
stop communism. Right. It didn't do a lot to stop communism, but a
lot of large corporations made a lot of pesos off the war, didn't
they?

I even heard .. that the Johnson family owned a transport company that
was shipping the war supplies. Yep, Lyndon "I'll go to war myself
before I send someone else's son to war" Johnson. Those Johnsons.

And we thought only republicans were involved in big business and war
mongering.

Proving that GREED is a bi-partisan quality. Yes?

From: (KK4TL)

(Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

Hundreds of different accounts exist regarding the atrocities committed by US
soldiers in VN. Including over 100 "fragging" investigations conducted by the
Pentagon. There's a reason why most VN villagers supported the VC over US
troops.

But, let me be clear: the vast majority of US troops were just kids thrown into
an unwinnable situation. They were not evil. Their leaders let them down.



The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

Amen and amen, professor. Agreed. No doubt about it. Will we ever
know what precipitated it? Oh yeah .. they told us we were there to
stop communism. Right. It didn't do a lot to stop communism, but a
lot of large corporations made a lot of pesos off the war, didn't
they?

I even heard .. that the Johnson family owned a transport company that
was shipping the war supplies. Yep, Lyndon "I'll go to war myself
before I send someone else's son to war" Johnson. Those Johnsons.

Well, gee, when have I ever defended LBJ?
Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon were all deluded and misled by defense advisors.
Kissinger and McNamara were serious offenders.


And we thought only republicans were involved in big business and war
mongering.

Nope. Never said that.


Proving that GREED is a bi-partisan quality. Yes?


Agreed.

Now explain how our agreement disproves that both Republicans and Democrats
made bad decisions in VN.

And you always drift. Even if LBJ and the Demos shared responsibility for VN,
how does that refute anything Kerry had to say about VN.

Kerry spoke the truth. I respect that in someone who I intend to vote for.


Michael Bryant, WA4009SWL
Louisville, KY
R75, S800, RX320, SW77, ICF2010K,
DX398, 7600G, 6800W, RF2200, 7600A,
Degen 1102, GE SRll, Pro-2006, Pro-2010, Pro-76
(remove "nospam" to reply)

Michael Bryant wrote:

From: (KK4TL)

(Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

Hundreds of different accounts exist regarding the atrocities committed by US
soldiers in VN. Including over 100 "fragging" investigations conducted by the
Pentagon. There's a reason why most VN villagers supported the VC over US
troops.

But, let me be clear: the vast majority of US troops were just kids thrown into
an unwinnable situation. They were not evil. Their leaders let them down.


The war was a horrible mistake and resulted
in the largest embarrassment that our military ever faced.

Amen and amen, professor. Agreed. No doubt about it. Will we ever
know what precipitated it? Oh yeah .. they told us we were there to
stop communism. Right. It didn't do a lot to stop communism, but a
lot of large corporations made a lot of pesos off the war, didn't
they?

I even heard .. that the Johnson family owned a transport company that
was shipping the war supplies. Yep, Lyndon "I'll go to war myself
before I send someone else's son to war" Johnson. Those Johnsons.

Well, gee, when have I ever defended LBJ?
Kennedy, LBJ and Nixon were all deluded and misled by defense advisors.
Kissinger and McNamara were serious offenders.


And we thought only republicans were involved in big business and war
mongering.

Nope. Never said that.


Proving that GREED is a bi-partisan quality. Yes?


Agreed.

Now explain how our agreement disproves that both Republicans and Democrats
made bad decisions in VN.

And you always drift. Even if LBJ and the Demos shared responsibility for VN,
how does that refute anything Kerry had to say about VN.

Kerry spoke the truth. I respect that in someone who I intend to vote for.

WOW! The truth means something to you? The guy who lied about having a PhD? The guy
who called me on the phone telling me how he'd been fired from Louisville Technical
Institute? ( a proven lie by the way).

You're your own little circus, aren't you?

dxAce

KK4TL wrote:

ospam (Michael Bryant) wrote ...


Any clear-thinking individual would agree that many American soldiers did
indeed carry out atrocities in VN.

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?

You can start with a quick search for "Tiger Force", or 'Vietnam
+"necklace of ears"':

"Sergeant Forrest Miller told Army investigators the killing of
prisoners was "an unwritten law." Other soldiers said they sought
revenge in the villages after unit members were killed and injured
during sniper and grenade attacks.

Soldiers often cited conflicting views of commanders as a reason they
killed unarmed people. Some commanders told investigators that civilians
could be targeted in certain circumstances; others said they could never
be attacked. During the Army's investigation, 27 soldiers said severing
ears from dead Vietnamese became routine.

"There was a period when just about everyone had a necklace of ears,"
former platoon medic Larry Cottingham told investigators.

The atrocities carried out by the unit came just months before the
killing of about 500 Vietnamese civilians by an Army unit in 1968 at My
Lai."



--
Mike
NAR #70953 - Sr/HPR Level-1 ~ BEMRC - NAR Section #627
NO Junk Email, please! Real email to: amphoto [at] blarg [dot] net.
WANTED: Experienced Kamikaze Pilot

KK4TL wrote:

Ok professor. You're on. I'm a clear-thinking individual and I will
NOT agree to your proposal here. How many is "many"? Ok there was My
Lai. Rattle off a few others. And demonstrate your meaning of
"many". A hundred? A thousand? Ten thousand? Granted one is too
many. But how many is "many" ?


================================================== ==
MITCHELL: We have begun hearings today to investigate the military
policy used in Vietnam which appears to us to foster war crimes. We are
concerned with such schemes as free-fire zones, search and destroy
missions, mass resettlement of peasantry and the so-called "bodycount
mania." Since the Dept of Defense [DOD] acknowledges the use of these
tactics, we wish to illustrate graphically what happens when such
tactics are translated into action. Vietnam has been called the ultimate
model war of attrition where civilians die by the score for every combat
soldier killed.
http://members.aol.com/warlibrary/vwch1.htm

================================================== ==
On October 19, 2003, the Ohio-based newspaper the Toledo Blade launched
a four-day series of investigative reports exposing a string of
atrocities by an elite, volunteer, 45-man "Tiger Force" unit of the U.S.
Army's 101st Airborne Division over the course of seven months in 1967.
The Blade goes on to state that in 1971 the Army began a 4.5 year
investigation of the alleged torture of prisoners, rapes of civilian
women, the mutilation of bodies and killing of anywhere from nine to
well over one hundred unarmed civilians, among other acts. The articles
further report that the Army's inquiry concluded that 18 U.S. soldiers
committed war crimes ranging from murder and assault to dereliction of
duty. However, not one of the soldiers, even of those still on active
duty at the time of the investigation, was ever court martialed in
connection with the heinous crimes. Moreover, six suspected war
criminals were allowed to resign from military service during the
criminal investigations specifically to avoid prosecution.


http://vancouver.indymedia.org/news/2003/11/87856.php
================================================== ==

Killing men, women, children and cutting up of bodies:

http://perso.wanadoo.fr/patrick.guen...nnews/stir.htm

================================================== ==


Hundreds more of these sites.





mike