wrote in message
oups.com...
The ham radio hobby really needs to rethink the way that it controls
access to the hobby. Continuing to require seriously outdated tests
like morse code is a turnoff to many potential amateur radio buffs.
Why not try something revolutionary such as live testing for safe
and
courteous operation using voice and digital modes.

When I listen to the guys on HF my sense is that their average age
continues to increase. I also detect that overall participation is
way
off from a decade ago - lots of open space in what were once crowded
chunks of spectrum. I hear very few young and virtually no female
voices of any age. Ham radio needs to think of changes to become a
worthwhile alternative to the many other modes of communicating
that
do not require a license. If it continues doing business as it has
then it's future will indeed be short - possibly much less than 2050
as
mentioned in the earlier thread. The remaining members can look
forward to the FCC continuing to divert more amateur radio spectrum
to
commercial interests that want to use it.

Hard to say. There is a significant difference between
a radio amateur and a radio user. A radio amateur
implies a degree of sophistication that you don't get
from a regular old radio user. Remember CB?? The
people who would have found CB trendy would find
cellphones trendy. Simply turning on a 2M handheld
and talking into it doesn't make one a radio amateur;
you need to understand what it is you're doing. I, for
example, don't qualify as a radio amateur because I
know how to use a cell or the internet. I'd need to study
radio theory and understand what it is that I'm doing.
Does that mean I'm for code?? No, I really don't care
about that very much, because there are enough friends
that I have who are content to be Techs without code.

Do the Feds have the right to take away the spectrum?
Sure; but the spectrum that's getting the most noise
(outside of BPL, of course) is the real high end stuff
in the GHz range, far beyond 2M and the other bands
most of us think of as the Ham bands.

Could hams become irrelevant in the future?? Sure
they could if everyone uses cells, but in the end
things like music and movie industry reps wanting
payment for their copyrighted material will probably
influence the direction that satellite, internet radio
and regular radio will go more than the hams. A local
radio station ended up having to sell it's regular
broadcast station because they got way into debt
providing money to the recording industry for their
internet broadcasts, which the recording industry
wanted top dollar for, not the discount that they give
the broadcast radio stations. If the recording industry
does that to satellite and internet streamers, it'll kill
off most of them pretty darn quick, and the "need"
to take the hams' frequencies will evaporate.

By way of background I come from a family of radio amateurs. My son
(an electrical engineer) considered the hobby, but thought the
licensing requirement silly and the morse code requirement laughable
in
todays world. He can talk around the world several ways via the
internet. He has a cell phone that does much the same thing a
handheld
tribander does - allows him to talk with other people. It looks a
lot
like a handheld, but it costs less and doesn't require a license.

The cell may cost less initially, but to use it you keep
pumping money to the provider company. Get a
secondhand 2M, and the cell company's fees will
eclipse it in a year or two. Of course, if you want to
do other things with your cell phone, like do pictures,
that'll cost you extra.

Time for the hobby and it's gatekeeper to wake up before it is too
late.


Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a
need
for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. Tha
t
has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio
is
the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are
doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first
SW
radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that
they
lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking
only
about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back
and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ
CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest
in
a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy
radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for,
then
I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

wrote:

The issue isn't whether I'm trying to enter the hobby or not or whether
I like taking meaningless tests. The issue is whether or not the hobby
is interesting enough to attract new blood. From what I have seen at
hamventions and heard on the bands there are few if any young people
attracted to the hobby. It is certainly easier to ignore an obvious
shift in ham radio demographics than to do something about it. But the
decision to do nothing will mean the hobby will continue to grey and
lose active members.

I'm not surprised to hear the FCC talk about taking spectrum dedicated
to amateur radio or that they are approving schemes that will surely
cause interference on the ham bands...are you? Maybe the FCC
recognizes that the ham community is not the force it once was.

Last time I looked the numbers were actually up.

This is the same refrain I've heard for the past 35+ years. (I was licensed in
1970).

Same as shortwave radio dying, which I've heard for almost 40 years.

Same old story. Heard it before.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

wrote:

The issue isn't whether I'm trying to enter the hobby or not or whether
I like taking meaningless tests. The issue is whether or not the hobby
is interesting enough to attract new blood. From what I have seen at
hamventions and heard on the bands there are few if any young people
attracted to the hobby. It is certainly easier to ignore an obvious
shift in ham radio demographics than to do something about it. But the
decision to do nothing will mean the hobby will continue to grey and
lose active members.

I'm not surprised to hear the FCC talk about taking spectrum dedicated
to amateur radio or that they are approving schemes that will surely
cause interference on the ham bands...are you? Maybe the FCC
recognizes that the ham community is not the force it once was.

Question: Are you currently licensed?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

The totals may be up, but those include active and inactive hams. Just
listen to the bands...ain't nearly as busy as it once was. And listen
to the voices...no youngsters.

I love all kinds of Radios.I am not a Ham though,I am not killing any
kinds of Radios or Antennas either.Tune your tv sets to Fox news.Live
update of Global Flyer is fixin to be on there.
cuhulin

Yankee Can Do

Read the Greatest Generation By Tom Brokaw
Talk to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
Talk to the New York Police and Fire Dept about 9/11
Read about Steve Fossett' Round The World
That is Yankee Can Do
These folks didn't let the challenges fake em out

College is full of meaningless tests and courses, yet folks take it all in
stride.
With your attitude you probably don't have a driver's license

Morse thruput can be 40WPM
PSK31 is about 30 to 50WPM
RTTY is about 80WPM
Many folks here probably can't type at these speeds
So much for slow thruput
It is about communicating not speed.

Whatta ya doing in this slow communication mode ??? How fast can you type
???

All the below is BS.


--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

Activity is not down on the bands. Propagation is down.
In 2000 at the peak of the solar cycle, the bands were packed. I spoke to
young, old , male and female. I have my log to prove it. If you want
something, study for it.
If I can pass the 5WPM code (not my favorite mode), anyone can. It seems
that today, people take the easy way out by sniveling that the system is not
fair, rather than
sucking it up and working for their goals.


wrote in message
oups.com...
The totals may be up, but those include active and inactive hams. Just
listen to the bands...ain't nearly as busy as it once was. And listen
to the voices...no youngsters.

Morse code is only being used by a few hams to talk to a few other
hams. Just cruise the bands and you will find that out. It has been
abandoned by the military and commercial services. The ham community
is testing for a skill with no use in the real world. And a skill with
no value in the much hyped emergency communications world that hams are
supposed to be ready to assist in. That is not to say that the hams
that do master morse code are not skillful people, indeed they are. But
like those who persist in learing Esperanto, they are learning a
language with few speakers. Why not test prospective hams for their
proficiency at carrying on skilled and courteous communications in
something more widely used, like the human voice or digital modes.

You say college is "full of meaningless tests and courses." With such
apparent knowlege of the subject why don't you share with us the
degrees you have attained that were based on meaningless courses and
tests. Given that most college courses are preparatory for a career of
one kind or another I am truly surprised that this country has moved
much beyond the early industrial age if your statement is true.

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation of what Yankee Can Do" is
and how it applies to attracting of new hams to the hobby and designing
meaningful tests.

You and dxace are quite adept at one liners when you can't otherwise
carry on an intelligent discussion.


Se=F1or Sombra wrote:
Yankee Can Do

Read the Greatest Generation By Tom Brokaw
Talk to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
Talk to the New York Police and Fire Dept about 9/11
Read about Steve Fossett' Round The World
That is Yankee Can Do
These folks didn't let the challenges fake em out

College is full of meaningless tests and courses, yet folks take it
all in
stride.
With your attitude you probably don't have a driver's license

Morse thruput can be 40WPM
PSK31 is about 30 to 50WPM
RTTY is about 80WPM
Many folks here probably can't type at these speeds
So much for slow thruput
It is about communicating not speed.

Whatta ya doing in this slow communication mode ??? How fast can
you type
???

All the below is BS.


--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and
absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us
why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's
and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging
hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does
not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as
relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving
licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers
had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited
the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and
they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice,
etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather
than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal
then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just
the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who
listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides
to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to
become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will
be
knocking at the gate.

Bravo Well Stated

--
Lamont Cranston



"Jim" wrote in message
news:joKVd.43465$s16.24950@trndny02...
Activity is not down on the bands. Propagation is down.
In 2000 at the peak of the solar cycle, the bands were packed. I spoke to
young, old , male and female. I have my log to prove it. If you want
something, study for it.
If I can pass the 5WPM code (not my favorite mode), anyone can. It seems
that today, people take the easy way out by sniveling that the system is
not
fair, rather than
sucking it up and working for their goals.


wrote in message
oups.com...
The totals may be up, but those include active and inactive hams. Just
listen to the bands...ain't nearly as busy as it once was. And listen
to the voices...no youngsters.

You've proven my point perfectly. You really can't carry on an
intelligent discussion - only one liners that you might hear on a
playgound.

Aside from chasing people from this forum who might actually have
something to contribute and otherwise just being an annoying troll,
just what do you bring to this forum anymore. I suppose one recent
claim to fame would be the engineer/designer from Degen who was hounded
from this forum.


dxAce wrote:
wrote:

Morse code is only being used by a few hams to talk to a few other
hams. Just cruise the bands and you will find that out. It has
been
abandoned by the military and commercial services. The ham
community
is testing for a skill with no use in the real world. And a skill
with
no value in the much hyped emergency communications world that hams
are
supposed to be ready to assist in. That is not to say that the
hams
that do master morse code are not skillful people, indeed they are.
But
like those who persist in learing Esperanto, they are learning a
language with few speakers. Why not test prospective hams for
their
proficiency at carrying on skilled and courteous communications in
something more widely used, like the human voice or digital modes.

You say college is "full of meaningless tests and courses." With
such
apparent knowlege of the subject why don't you share with us the
degrees you have attained that were based on meaningless courses
and
tests. Given that most college courses are preparatory for a
career of
one kind or another I am truly surprised that this country has
moved
much beyond the early industrial age if your statement is true.

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation of what Yankee Can Do"
is
and how it applies to attracting of new hams to the hobby and
designing
meaningful tests.

You and dxace are quite adept at one liners when you can't
otherwise
carry on an intelligent discussion.

I asked you if you were currently licensed, 'tard boy. If not, then I
suggest
you get your fat, stinking, ain't been wiped in weeks ass out there
and get
licensed lest the hobby die, 'tard boy.

That was two lines, 'tard boy. Besides not being able to learn the
code, and
otherwise rant, what are your other failings in life, 'tard.

Bring it on, piece of ****, bring it on!

dxAce
Michigan
USA