In article ,
"Ric Trexell" wrote:

I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating.

There is no real need for them now.

That has a lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham
radio is the hams themselves.

Some ham's have a bad attitude toward the hobby but you can't lump them
all into one group.

CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are doing it with
those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys
talking only about their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then
another will come back and say they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas
and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ contest again. Does any one think
that people are going to invest in a radio and all the learning to do
what are nothing more than fancy radio checks? If that is what the
ham bands are going to be used for, then I say turn them over to
business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

Well, those are some of the reasons why I'm not a ham.

--
Telamon
Ventura, California

I can tell y'all right now,,, businesses and telephone companies don't
want anything to do with Shortwave Radio nowdays since the advent of new
types of digital communication.
cuhulin

The ham radio hobby really needs to rethink the way that it controls
access to the hobby. Continuing to require seriously outdated tests
like morse code is a turnoff to many potential amateur radio buffs.
Why not try something revolutionary such as live testing for safe and
courteous operation using voice and digital modes.

When I listen to the guys on HF my sense is that their average age
continues to increase. I also detect that overall participation is way
off from a decade ago - lots of open space in what were once crowded
chunks of spectrum. I hear very few young and virtually no female
voices of any age. Ham radio needs to think of changes to become a
worthwhile alternative to the many other modes of communicating that
do not require a license. If it continues doing business as it has
then it's future will indeed be short - possibly much less than 2050 as
mentioned in the earlier thread. The remaining members can look
forward to the FCC continuing to divert more amateur radio spectrum to
commercial interests that want to use it.

By way of background I come from a family of radio amateurs. My son
(an electrical engineer) considered the hobby, but thought the
licensing requirement silly and the morse code requirement laughable in
todays world. He can talk around the world several ways via the
internet. He has a cell phone that does much the same thing a handheld
tribander does - allows him to talk with other people. It looks a lot
like a handheld, but it costs less and doesn't require a license.

Time for the hobby and it's gatekeeper to wake up before it is too
late.


Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. That
has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio is
the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are
doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW
radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking only
about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back
and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest in
a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy
radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then
I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

It is NOT the code tests and exams that is the big turnoff -- it is a lack
of good old fashioned "Yankee Can Do"

You either see "outdated useless requirements" as a challenge to overcome
and achieve your goals or you whine and drop out.

All of the below is such a gross generalization that it is not worthy of a
response.

Maybe spend your time training new folks, get involved in emergency
communications and promote Amateur Radio.

P.S. Good luck with your silly phones when the big one hits. During our
fires in So Calif -- they were useless.

--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
The ham radio hobby really needs to rethink the way that it controls
access to the hobby. Continuing to require seriously outdated tests
like morse code is a turnoff to many potential amateur radio buffs.
Why not try something revolutionary such as live testing for safe and
courteous operation using voice and digital modes.

When I listen to the guys on HF my sense is that their average age
continues to increase. I also detect that overall participation is way
off from a decade ago - lots of open space in what were once crowded
chunks of spectrum. I hear very few young and virtually no female
voices of any age. Ham radio needs to think of changes to become a
worthwhile alternative to the many other modes of communicating that
do not require a license. If it continues doing business as it has
then it's future will indeed be short - possibly much less than 2050 as
mentioned in the earlier thread. The remaining members can look
forward to the FCC continuing to divert more amateur radio spectrum to
commercial interests that want to use it.

By way of background I come from a family of radio amateurs. My son
(an electrical engineer) considered the hobby, but thought the
licensing requirement silly and the morse code requirement laughable in
todays world. He can talk around the world several ways via the
internet. He has a cell phone that does much the same thing a handheld
tribander does - allows him to talk with other people. It looks a lot
like a handheld, but it costs less and doesn't require a license.

Time for the hobby and it's gatekeeper to wake up before it is too
late.


Ric Trexell wrote:
I was reading a few of the posts about how there will not be a need
for ham
radio in the future due to all the new ways of communicating. That
has a
lot to do with it but I think the biggest problem with ham radio is
the hams
themselves. CB'ers killed CB'ing with bad language and hams are
doing it
with those stupid contests. I remember as a kid getting my first SW
radio
and listening to hams talk about their lives and the area that they
lived in
and stuff like that. Now when I turn it on I get guys talking only
about
their radio or calling CQ CQ contest. Then another will come back
and say
they are 5 and 9 out here in Kansas and soon the guy is calling CQ CQ
contest again. Does any one think that people are going to invest in
a
radio and all the learning to do what are nothing more than fancy
radio
checks? If that is what the ham bands are going to be used for, then
I say
turn them over to business and telephone radio freqs. Ric.

Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

wrote:

Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

Heard you knocking, please go away.

In my long experience, the ones who complain are most often the ones who can't
seem to knuckle down and study.

That holds true for most any endeavour.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

The issue isn't whether I'm trying to enter the hobby or not or whether
I like taking meaningless tests. The issue is whether or not the hobby
is interesting enough to attract new blood. From what I have seen at
hamventions and heard on the bands there are few if any young people
attracted to the hobby. It is certainly easier to ignore an obvious
shift in ham radio demographics than to do something about it. But the
decision to do nothing will mean the hobby will continue to grey and
lose active members.

I'm not surprised to hear the FCC talk about taking spectrum dedicated
to amateur radio or that they are approving schemes that will surely
cause interference on the ham bands...are you? Maybe the FCC
recognizes that the ham community is not the force it once was.

Yankee Can Do

Read the Greatest Generation By Tom Brokaw
Talk to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
Talk to the New York Police and Fire Dept about 9/11
Read about Steve Fossett' Round The World
That is Yankee Can Do
These folks didn't let the challenges fake em out

College is full of meaningless tests and courses, yet folks take it all in
stride.
With your attitude you probably don't have a driver's license

Morse thruput can be 40WPM
PSK31 is about 30 to 50WPM
RTTY is about 80WPM
Many folks here probably can't type at these speeds
So much for slow thruput
It is about communicating not speed.

Whatta ya doing in this slow communication mode ??? How fast can you type
???

All the below is BS.


--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice, etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will be
knocking at the gate.

Morse code is only being used by a few hams to talk to a few other
hams. Just cruise the bands and you will find that out. It has been
abandoned by the military and commercial services. The ham community
is testing for a skill with no use in the real world. And a skill with
no value in the much hyped emergency communications world that hams are
supposed to be ready to assist in. That is not to say that the hams
that do master morse code are not skillful people, indeed they are. But
like those who persist in learing Esperanto, they are learning a
language with few speakers. Why not test prospective hams for their
proficiency at carrying on skilled and courteous communications in
something more widely used, like the human voice or digital modes.

You say college is "full of meaningless tests and courses." With such
apparent knowlege of the subject why don't you share with us the
degrees you have attained that were based on meaningless courses and
tests. Given that most college courses are preparatory for a career of
one kind or another I am truly surprised that this country has moved
much beyond the early industrial age if your statement is true.

I'm still waiting for a coherent explanation of what Yankee Can Do" is
and how it applies to attracting of new hams to the hobby and designing
meaningful tests.

You and dxace are quite adept at one liners when you can't otherwise
carry on an intelligent discussion.


Se=F1or Sombra wrote:
Yankee Can Do

Read the Greatest Generation By Tom Brokaw
Talk to the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan
Talk to the New York Police and Fire Dept about 9/11
Read about Steve Fossett' Round The World
That is Yankee Can Do
These folks didn't let the challenges fake em out

College is full of meaningless tests and courses, yet folks take it
all in
stride.
With your attitude you probably don't have a driver's license

Morse thruput can be 40WPM
PSK31 is about 30 to 50WPM
RTTY is about 80WPM
Many folks here probably can't type at these speeds
So much for slow thruput
It is about communicating not speed.

Whatta ya doing in this slow communication mode ??? How fast can
you type
???

All the below is BS.


--
Lamont Cranston



wrote in message
oups.com...
Hmmm...since you seem to think that learning an antiquated and
absurdly
slow way of communicating isn't the stumbling block, please tell us
why
young people are not signing up in droves like they did in the 50's
and
60's. And please tell me what "Yankee Can Do" means and how it is
supposed to attract badly needed young blood to a rapidly aging
hobby.

Sad to say, but your attitude parrots that of the ARRL and it is
exactly what is going to kill this hobby. Yes, I know it hurts the
pride a bit to realize the test so many hams once had to pass does
not
produce meaningful results. Much of the ham test is about as
relevant
as requiring buggy skills of prospective automobile driving
licensees.
And requiring that new hams pass the old test because the oldtimers
had
to will just continue to turn the new blood away.

Ii would be nice to say that hams provide a service in times of
emergency, but the specific instances where they actually benefited
the
emergency worker or had a positive impact on locals are fewer and
fewer. I've tried listening to H&W nets in hurricane season and
they
seem to degenerate into chaos more than provide a useful service.
People trampling over one another, sending code on top of voice,
etc.
It is as though many of them were trying for the contact rather
than
trying to help.

If the designation of licensed radio amateur was a desirable goal
then
wouldn't we see more young people trying to attain it? But just
the
opposite it happening. The graying of the hobby and the inexorable
reduction in the number of active hams is obvious to anyone who
listens
in.

And if the greater ham community and the ARRL collectively decides
to
continue playing gatekeeper by requiring meaningless tests to
become a
licensed radio amateur there will come a time that that nobody will
be
knocking at the gate.

Tom Brokejaw (he is like a broke dick dog) is another one of them COMMIE
left wing AssHoles!!!!
cuhulin