Frankly, as a person who does not approve of the stodginess of the
Catholic Church anyway, I am happy to see it do anything to itself that
will alienate people. There are other effective ways to approach God
and Christianity, and they don't necessarily involve living in poverty
while the Vatican hoardes massive funds and begs adherents to keep that
cycle of poverty and pain going by pumping out endless children.

Jean-Paul was a kind man; the new Pope may be likewise - but their
ancient and artificial (and largely hypocritical) ways do not mesh well
with the realities of 2005's wider world. I say, let the Church
collapse on itself.

Bruce Jensen

"bpnjensen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Frankly, as a person who does not approve of the stodginess of the
Catholic Church anyway, I am happy to see it do anything to itself that
will alienate people. There are other effective ways to approach God
and Christianity, and they don't necessarily involve living in poverty
while the Vatican hoardes massive funds and begs adherents to keep that
cycle of poverty and pain going by pumping out endless children.

Jean-Paul was a kind man; the new Pope may be likewise - but their
ancient and artificial (and largely hypocritical) ways do not mesh well
with the realities of 2005's wider world. I say, let the Church
collapse on itself.

Bruce Jensen

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment? Fortunately,
there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die trying to prevent that.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness have
been duly noted.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to them.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own way?

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they have
done
much to attempt to destroy it.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

Steve wrote:

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and
opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the
way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment?

Nope - that's not at all what I said, nor what I meant.

Pope and Church have no monopoly on the Truth. They do have a good deal
of artifice, however, much of which does not match Christ's example.
The poor get poorer, the earth gets more overrun with sick humans at
the expense of all other life - that's the truth. That's the legacy,
in part, of the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die
trying to prevent that.

Objection, your Honor - relevance.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness
have
been duly noted.

Thanks. Compassion is in short supply these days. Doesn't take a
liberal to be compasisonate, just a human with a working ticker.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

That's fine, and warranted.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a
Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own
way?

I agree. I would not hang around where I was not wanted either.

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they
have
done much to attempt to destroy it.

I doubt it. There are still about 1 x 10^9 Catholics in this world -
that's hardly a struggling Church.

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

I doubt it. There are still about 1 x 10^9 Catholics in this world -
that's hardly a struggling Church.


So, you're baptized as a baby before you have any sins to wash away
and your name is added to their list of members. The only way out is to
be excommunicated, but they still count people who never willingly
stepped foot into a service as members?

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Steve wrote:

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and
opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the
way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment? Fortunately,
there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die trying to prevent
that.

You read me wrong, sir. I believe that the Catholic Church has no
monopoly on the truth at all, never had, maybe never will, although
they have a stranglehold on their adherents. I don't believe that,
through all of their artificial trappings and (IMO) weird cult-like
approaches to Christianity, they come close to what Jesus would have
wanted. I also believe that, like any human institution, it is
corrupted beyond what St. Peter originally intended. I also happen to
believe, regardless of fashion, that they are simply wrong.

As far as your last sentence goes, I see no relevance to this topic.
At least, I cannot see any martyr wars breaking out in the Catholic
Church.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness
have
been duly noted.

Thanks - Compassion (along with courage and wisdom), more than anything
else, is what the world seems to lack most these days. It doesn't take
a liberal to feel sorrow or compassion for those living in misery, by
the way - only a human being whose heart still ticks.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

Well, that's fine, they deserved it, and the gays don't have to be
Catholics either...however, I would not live with a bunch of
mythological made-up crap either. However, if you can point out one
place where Jesus condemns a single man for being intimate with
another, or woman with woman, I will tell all the gays I know to repent
instantly and live a life contrary to the fibers of their beings (which
God arguably built into them).

Frankly, I do not care whether gays are in the Catholic Church or not.
It is not relevant to the damaging effects the Church continues to have
on the poor and the ecology of this planet

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a
Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own
way?

I agree.

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they
have
done much to attempt to destroy it.

I disagree. Through their actions, they only make themselves outcasts.
The Church is wealthy enough to persist on its own.

I also think that the topic of sodomy and etc. is unimportant. It is a
side topic that, as long as only 8-10% of the world is gay, will not
become key.

I am done.

Bruce Jensen

"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote in message
...

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

Funny. I was listening in on the radio, and I must have missed that somehow.
The commentators seem to have missed it as well; they didn't mention it.

SMHL,

Robert Osborne is a movie narator at TCM on tv. (Turner Classic Movies)
One night after I had finished watching The Boat movie on TCM,Robert
Osborne said Kurt Jergens (Kurt Jergens played the part of the German
Captain on the German Submarine in that movie,I saw the movie when it
first came out many years before the movie came on tv ,Robert Mitchum
played the part of the American Captain on the American U.S.Navy Ship)
sat out World War Two in a German prison because Kurt Jergens disgreed
with hitler's policies.Whenever The Boat movie is on tv and those dudes
are sitting around in the German Submarine and reading books and
magazines and comic books (one of the books is Mein Kampf) and Kurt
Jergens is gazing around at them with that smirk on his mug,I always
find that amusing.Do I like the new Pope? I don't know yet,time will
tell.
cuhulin

Not sure if a Dutch Pope will go down well though.hes not Italian like John
Paul.
he hates gays though, so hes not all bad!
cuhulin


wrote in message
...
Robert Osborne is a movie narator at TCM on tv. (Turner Classic Movies)
One night after I had finished watching The Boat movie on TCM,Robert
Osborne said Kurt Jergens (Kurt Jergens played the part of the German
Captain on the German Submarine in that movie,I saw the movie when it
first came out many years before the movie came on tv ,Robert Mitchum
played the part of the American Captain on the American U.S.Navy Ship)
sat out World War Two in a German prison because Kurt Jergens disgreed
with hitler's policies.Whenever The Boat movie is on tv and those dudes
are sitting around in the German Submarine and reading books and
magazines and comic books (one of the books is Mein Kampf) and Kurt
Jergens is gazing around at them with that smirk on his mug,I always
find that amusing.Do I like the new Pope? I don't know yet,time will
tell.
cuhulin