"dxAce" wrote:

So even though they probably looked at who best to do the job they should
have cast
that notion away and been more 'PC'? At least in your eyes?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

If that's what he's saying (though I'm not saying he IS saying that), I
wouldn't
be surprised. I was stunned at the number of commentators who said with
perfect certitude, "The next Pope must be more flexible, and open." Open
to WHAT?, I ask? What a load of shyte.

Pope Benedict XVI will, I believe, be a good Pope, and that's more important
than being a *great* Pope. He reveres tradition and dogma, and that's the
only
thing the Church has in its favor today.

I'm surprised that no one has ever considered that the scandals encircling
the
Church today is due to the liberalization and modernization of the Church?
Has anyone here, under the age of 50, ever spent a week in a seminary?
I have. One month, in fact, and the permissivity I witnessed there could be
one possible explanation for the fact that roughly 3 out of every 4
seminarians
were open, avowed homosexuals. Here's the stunning part - Their Bishop
knew! That kind of licentiousness might (hopefully) be dealt with by
Benedict
XVI. That's my prayer, at least. You are right, Steve. He is a good man,
and importantly, a STRONG man. Half the Church turned their back on him
when he said, twenty years ago, "There is much filth in the Church." If
we'd
listened, perhaps we could have cured the disease sooner.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

I'm very happy with the man the Cardinals chose.

Ratzinger is a man who understands that truth is not
subject to public opinion, and who refuses to do a
thing simply because that thing is in fashion.

We need more men (and women) like him.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
I think that choosing a Pope from South or Central America would have
helped the church in more than one way.

First it would signal to the world that the church is not as closed to
something as radical as a non-european pope. Seems kind of strange to
characterize such a change a radical when other religions include
females as a matter of course.

Second, it would have helped the church with membership in Brazil and
other south american countries where membership has been lost to more
open non-catholic religions.

"bpnjensen" wrote in message
oups.com...
Frankly, as a person who does not approve of the stodginess of the
Catholic Church anyway, I am happy to see it do anything to itself that
will alienate people. There are other effective ways to approach God
and Christianity, and they don't necessarily involve living in poverty
while the Vatican hoardes massive funds and begs adherents to keep that
cycle of poverty and pain going by pumping out endless children.

Jean-Paul was a kind man; the new Pope may be likewise - but their
ancient and artificial (and largely hypocritical) ways do not mesh well
with the realities of 2005's wider world. I say, let the Church
collapse on itself.

Bruce Jensen

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment? Fortunately,
there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die trying to prevent that.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness have
been duly noted.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to them.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own way?

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they have
done
much to attempt to destroy it.

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"We need more men (and women) like him."

I doubt that under this pope you will see women and men in equivalent
positions within the church, if that was what you meant by the
parenthetical reference to women.

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...
"We need more men (and women) like him."

I doubt that under this pope you will see women and men in equivalent
positions within the church, if that was what you meant by the
parenthetical reference to women.

When I said we need more men and women like him,
I meant to say that society would benefit from people
with greater reverence for tradition. I am, myself, a
traditionalist and a conservative, for what it's worth.

I may disagree with some of the things I see in the
Church, but I acknowledge the Church's right to
do things as She sees fit.

73,

Steve

Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act
of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"David" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 11:57:48 -0400, dxAce
wrote:

Check out the demon on the Pope's stick:

http://www.cuttingedge.org/news/n1359.cfm

HAAHA. That site would make Alex Jones cringe.

Interesting characterization of gender given the church will not
consider placing women in any position of responsibility.

Ratzinger is a man who understands that truth is not
subject to public opinion, and who refuses to do a
thing simply because that thing is in fashion.

Yeah, like that Hitler Youth outfit he was in many moons ago - nothing
fashionable or expedient about that - only Truth.

I am being facetious here - at this point in his life and given the
high probability that he was totally innocent of any war crimes, it is
unimportant - but like any other human, he has no monopoly on Truth.
Let us hope he has the wisdom to be just.

Bruce Jensen

Steve wrote:

So, I take it you are one of those people who thinks fashion and
opinion
is more important than truth, and that truth should be subjec to the
way
you "feel," and the mood you're in at any given moment?

Nope - that's not at all what I said, nor what I meant.

Pope and Church have no monopoly on the Truth. They do have a good deal
of artifice, however, much of which does not match Christ's example.
The poor get poorer, the earth gets more overrun with sick humans at
the expense of all other life - that's the truth. That's the legacy,
in part, of the Catholic Church.

Fortunately, there are men with strength who will, perhaps, die
trying to prevent that.

Objection, your Honor - relevance.

Your kindness and sense of compassion and liberal open-mindedness
have
been duly noted.

Thanks. Compassion is in short supply these days. Doesn't take a
liberal to be compasisonate, just a human with a working ticker.

Benedict XVI had to pause a moment before speaking today because the
homosexuals booed and jeered him, yet I'm sure he'll refuse to bow to
them.

That's fine, and warranted.

I have to wonder: If someone is a Sodomite, and they want a
Catholic-like
church, why don't they simply make their own faith, and find their own
way?

I agree. I would not hang around where I was not wanted either.

I'd say that rather than permitting the collapse of the Church, they
have
done much to attempt to destroy it.

I doubt it. There are still about 1 x 10^9 Catholics in this world -
that's hardly a struggling Church.

Bruce Jensen

When I said we need more men and women like him,
I meant to say that society would benefit from people
with greater reverence for tradition. I am, myself, a
traditionalist and a conservative, for what it's worth.

Tradition can be good or bad. There are many positive traditions, and
we celebrate many of them in our holidays. But - there is a dark side
too.

Tradition in some places holds that young men and women can be
betrothed to each other even if they are impossibly mismatched. Female
circumcision is traditional in some African nations, where the western
world would call it misogyny and brutality against women. Slavery was
traditional for millenia. Bigotry is traditional, and still holds sway
in many places on this planet. It is traditional for the rich to rule
the poor, the mighty to rule the weak, which of course goes against the
supreme law of the United States (even as the current leadership
attempts to bring it back - and I don't mean just Republicans either).

The Founders of the U.S. started several new ideas that were not
traditional at the time - sometimes, we have to carefully define what a
tradition is, lest we deceive ourselves.

Traditions are not infallible or universal or right - and we owe it to
our descendants to pick and choose those that are just, decent and
wise, while rejecting those that demean, brutalize, persecute and
ostracize.

Bruce Jensen