"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote:

Perhaps I am wrong, but I was laboring under the belief that
the word "Fundies" is a derisive slur for fundamentalist Christians.


Some people use it to paint all Christians with a broad brush and
condemn anyone with faith and beliefs. You should see some of the rants
on the electronics newsgroups where we are referred to as "Rabid
fundies". Then they blame every problem in the world on Christians and
claim the world would be perfect if we were all dead.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote:

Some people use it to paint all Christians with a broad brush and
condemn anyone with faith and beliefs. You should see some of the rants
on the electronics newsgroups where we are referred to as "Rabid
fundies". Then they blame every problem in the world on Christians and
claim the world would be perfect if we were all dead.

Wow. Nice people. Honest musing he I wonder how many of them
have crappy lives, and blame God for everything? I admire anyone,
Christian or not, who has wrestled and wrangled with questions of being,
faith, the world, and the meaning of life (for lack of a less-hackneyed
phrase),
but can't bear the in-your-face stridency that I see from those who blame
Christians for everything -- Just about as much as it sickens me to see
the weak sister pseudoChristians in the world. (I'll bet money you know
a few of 'em - I certainly do).

73,

Steve

--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote:

Wow. Nice people. Honest musing he I wonder how many of them
have crappy lives, and blame God for everything? I admire anyone,
Christian or not, who has wrestled and wrangled with questions of being,
faith, the world, and the meaning of life (for lack of a less-hackneyed
phrase),
but can't bear the in-your-face stridency that I see from those who blame
Christians for everything -- Just about as much as it sickens me to see
the weak sister pseudoChristians in the world. (I'll bet money you know
a few of 'em - I certainly do).

It was the actions of a number of so called Christians that kept me
out of church for 35 years. What they did and said, and the way they
treated people made me sick. I had faith, but I couldn't share it with
them because their thoughts were on money, new cars, fancy clothes and
who had the biggest church in the county. Another church contacted me
about a new sound system, then told me I could have the job if I joined
their church. The "Pastor" claimed it was a joke but I only took the
job because I needed the money. I was in dozens of churches around my
home town doing repairs and I didn't feel anything but pushy people
making outrageous demands.

I've had a number of things happen in my life that a lot of people
don't believe. When I moved to Florida I had a choice of two vehicles.
An Olds Starfire which was so small there wasn't enough room for half of
my clothes, and a 73 Chevy stepvan that had sat in my drive for four
years. A drunk driver hit my other car and rammed it into the truck,
totaling both cars. The engine was seized, someone took the front
grill, the back bumper was missing and there was a lot of rust. I told
my friends I was going to resurrect the truck and use it. A friend used
a logging chain and his souped up four wheel drive off road truck to
pull me out of my driveway and got the truck up to 25 miles an hour. I
popped the clutch and killed his engine. He started it and pulled me
around the block to leave the truck in front of my house. He shook his
head ands said, That engine will never run without a complete overhaul.
I used Break Free penetrating oil in the cylinders, prayed about it and
a half hour later the engine turned over when I tried it. I had the
truck running for $8 and spent $52 on a used gas tank. I drove the
truck a little over 5000 miles and didn't even pull the valve cover. I
made one round trip from Ohio, and a second run to Florida in a truck
people didn't believe would make the city limits.


After a little rest to recover for all the driving I started looking
for work. I walked into the business office of a local Christian TV
station and was told they had no openings, and no budget to hire anyone
at that time but let me fill out an application for broadcast engineer.
They told me several times there was no job, but they had to take the
application and keep it on file for the FCC. I got a phone call the
next afternoon from their engineer asking me if I could stop by the
studio in Orlando to talk to him. I was to be there the next day anyway
so I set an appointment. We met and talked, and i was reminded that
there was no money, but I was told they wanted to hire another engineer
in about six months and would see if I was still looking. They called
the next morning and asked if I could start the next day, that some
money had turned up. There are a lot of other things like this that
have happened, including walking way from a totaled seven month old '83
Toyota pickup when a woman hit me head on in my lane on the highway and
the cop's amazed expression when I told him I was the driver, and Yes, I
wasn't dead.

--
Former professional electron wrangler.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

"Stephen M.H. Lawrence" wrote:

Wow. Nice people. Honest musing he I wonder how many of them
have crappy lives, and blame God for everything? I admire anyone,
Christian or not, who has wrestled and wrangled with questions of being,
faith, the world, and the meaning of life (for lack of a less-hackneyed
phrase),
but can't bear the in-your-face stridency that I see from those who blame
Christians for everything -- Just about as much as it sickens me to see
the weak sister pseudoChristians in the world. (I'll bet money you know
a few of 'em - I certainly do).

Yes, there are a number of atheists who are angry at God for whatever
reason (strange, since God doesn't exist) and bash everybody of faith
relentlessly. This particular atheist believes that there are good
people of every faith, and that faith per se is not bad. But when
believers want to point a gun at my head and tell me what to believe, or
want to overthrow the US Constitution and replace it with a Christian
version of Iran, I'm gonna get mad. I'm a tolerant guy, but don't touch
my rights under the First Amendment or attempt to overthrow the
Constitution.

It was the actions of a number of so called Christians that kept me
out of church for 35 years. What they did and said, and the way they
treated people made me sick. I had faith, but I couldn't share it with
them because their thoughts were on money, new cars, fancy clothes and
who had the biggest church in the county. Another church contacted me
about a new sound system, then told me I could have the job if I joined
their church. The "Pastor" claimed it was a joke but I only took the
job because I needed the money. I was in dozens of churches around my
home town doing repairs and I didn't feel anything but pushy people
making outrageous demands.

I grew up in Mormonism. Mormons are VERY obsessed with the idea that
Jesus blesses the rich, when in fact Jesus said that a rich man shall
never get into heaven. I am high functioning autistic (Asperger
Syndrome) and my social faux pas'es were ruthlessly mocked by the other
kids and even by some adults. All they wanted was oneupmanship on each
other. I quit at the age of 12 and went in search of a church, then a
religion, that lived up to its ideals. I came up empty-just endless
preaching of intolerance and dumbed down sheep robotically repeating the
hate that spewed forth from the leaders. Then I became an atheist, and
suddenly I became a prime target for every half wit conversion attempt
in existence. I've heard it all, from instant faith healing of my
problems to the ignorant blather of missionaries trying to sound loving
while thinking "raw meat" in the backs of their minds. At least the
Mormons send their missionaries out at age 19 so they don't have a
chance to get jaded-those freshly scrubbed potato brains from Idaho
really DO believe, they really ARE sincere, and they try their
damnedest. Each missionary converts, on average, one person every six
months out of a total two year assignment.


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"running dogg" wrote:

Yes, there are a number of atheists who are angry at God for whatever
reason (strange, since God doesn't exist) and bash everybody of faith
relentlessly. This particular atheist believes that there are good
people of every faith, and that faith per se is not bad. But when
believers want to point a gun at my head and tell me what to believe, or
want to overthrow the US Constitution and replace it with a Christian
version of Iran, I'm gonna get mad. I'm a tolerant guy, but don't touch
my rights under the First Amendment or attempt to overthrow the
Constitution.

Well, I know for a fact that there are many folks who call themselves
"Christians" who would gladly attempt to subvert the Constitution in
an attempt to assert their version of a theocracy. *However*, for
every one of those, there are thousands and thousands who love our
Constitutional Republic, who feel that our rights are given by God and
guaranteed by the Constitution, and who would gladly defend our
Constitution. If a "believer" wants to point a gun at your head, that's
assault. In such a situation, it's probably best to be pointing something
back. (2nd Amendment to the Bill of Rights, and all of that). Problem
solved.

I grew up in Mormonism. Mormons are VERY obsessed with the idea that
Jesus blesses the rich, when in fact Jesus said that a rich man shall
never get into heaven. I am high functioning autistic (Asperger
Syndrome) and my social faux pas'es were ruthlessly mocked by the other
kids and even by some adults. All they wanted was oneupmanship on each
other. I quit at the age of 12 and went in search of a church, then a
religion, that lived up to its ideals. I came up empty-just endless
preaching of intolerance and dumbed down sheep robotically repeating the
hate that spewed forth from the leaders. Then I became an atheist, and
suddenly I became a prime target for every half wit conversion attempt
in existence.

For what it's worth, there are MILLIONS of people who've been down
that very same road you're walking, and I can't fault you for throwing in
the towel. I won't try to convert you (hell, this is rec.radio.shortwave),
but I can say truthfully that it looks like God didn't fail, humanity did.
It's
a story as old as humanity, sadly.

I've heard it all, from instant faith healing of my
problems to the ignorant blather of missionaries trying to sound loving
while thinking "raw meat" in the backs of their minds.

No, the REAL way to fix it is to handle snakes! Well, either that, or
come on down to the "compound." Profit Stair will gladly help you.

At least the
Mormons send their missionaries out at age 19 so they don't have a
chance to get jaded-those freshly scrubbed potato brains from Idaho
really DO believe, they really ARE sincere, and they try their
damnedest. Each missionary converts, on average, one person every six
months out of a total two year assignment.

I've got a tremendous amount of respect for Mormons. I've met dozens
and everyone of them seemed decent, and were full of good will. I've
talked about religion and politics with them, and they seemed to have
sound judgment. I disagree with them doctrinally, but I like their
live-and-
let-live attitude.

73,

Steve

I've got a tremendous amount of respect for Mormons. I've met dozens

and everyone of them seemed decent, and were full of good will. I've
talked about religion and politics with them, and they seemed to have
sound judgment. I disagree with them doctrinally, but I like their
live-and-let-live attitude.

73, Steve

Steve, this is the first I've heard of this kindly attitude. I've got
horror stories from more than one former Mormon who were persecuted for
what, in the greater world, would be considered nonissues. In a most
egregious case, I have a friend who was accused of being gay and
drug-addicted, and she was excommunicated by the church (with a great
deal of abuse and trumped up scandal) after disagreeing with her
husband about an issue related their children's schooling. Her husband,
being the fine Mormon that he is, got the church in on it, and in the
course of events she lost her job, was divorced and received no
alimony, and essentially had to leave Utah in order to begin again.
She is now married to another much kinder non-Mormon, her children from
her former marriage are happy to visit often because they understand
the crap she had to go through, and she has started a modestly
successful telescope-making business.

If this is a Mormon's idea of "Live-and-let-live", then I'll be dipped
in ****, rolled in peanuts, and sold as a Baby Ruth bar.

Bruce Jensen

bpnjensen wrote:

I've got a tremendous amount of respect for Mormons. I've met dozens

and everyone of them seemed decent, and were full of good will. I've
talked about religion and politics with them, and they seemed to have
sound judgment. I disagree with them doctrinally, but I like their
live-and-let-live attitude.

73, Steve

Steve, this is the first I've heard of this kindly attitude. I've got
horror stories from more than one former Mormon who were persecuted for
what, in the greater world, would be considered nonissues. In a most
egregious case, I have a friend who was accused of being gay and
drug-addicted, and she was excommunicated by the church (with a great
deal of abuse and trumped up scandal) after disagreeing with her
husband about an issue related their children's schooling. Her husband,
being the fine Mormon that he is, got the church in on it, and in the
course of events she lost her job, was divorced and received no
alimony, and essentially had to leave Utah in order to begin again.
She is now married to another much kinder non-Mormon, her children from
her former marriage are happy to visit often because they understand
the crap she had to go through, and she has started a modestly
successful telescope-making business.

If this is a Mormon's idea of "Live-and-let-live", then I'll be dipped
in ****, rolled in peanuts, and sold as a Baby Ruth bar.

A fantasy of yours?

dxAce
Michigan
USA

I don't know any gays,I don't ever want to know any gays either.I will
NOT!!!!!!!! associate with any gays at all!!!!!!,Period!!!!!!! I
HATE!!!!! gays.gays are ALL a bunch of SICKOS!!!!! All of the folks I
know are straight.
cuhulin

"bpnjensen" wrote:

Steve, this is the first I've heard of this kindly attitude. I've got
horror stories from more than one former Mormon who were persecuted for
what, in the greater world, would be considered nonissues. In a most
egregious case, I have a friend who was accused of being gay and
drug-addicted, and she was excommunicated by the church (with a great
deal of abuse and trumped up scandal) after disagreeing with her
husband about an issue related their children's schooling. Her husband,
being the fine Mormon that he is, got the church in on it, and in the
course of events she lost her job, was divorced and received no
alimony, and essentially had to leave Utah in order to begin again.
She is now married to another much kinder non-Mormon, her children from
her former marriage are happy to visit often because they understand
the crap she had to go through, and she has started a modestly
successful telescope-making business.

If this is a Mormon's idea of "Live-and-let-live", then I'll be dipped
in ****, rolled in peanuts, and sold as a Baby Ruth bar.

Bruce Jensen

Yeah, that would definitely void the rubric of "Live and let live."
Pretty incredible stuff -- I have a friend who lived in Utah for
awhile, and he said there's a caste system for Mormons vs.
non-Mormons. Believe it or not, Omaha is a significant Midwest
center for the Mormons, and they seemed like decent folks to me.

Of course, it's all anecdotal and empirical. You never know with
the human species; there could be a "prime ****ter" around every
corner (and there often is). I still think of that as a human problem,
not a religious one. I think religion can be abused in the same
way that politics or psychiatry can be abused.

Man is wolf to man...sometimes.

73,

Steve
--
Steve Lawrence
Burnsville, Minnesota

Every moment of a human life is an act
of worship.

Coincidence is God's way of being anonymous.

"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message
...

"People mark it when they hit, but do not mark it when they miss." Francis
Bacon

"When someone is saved from certain death by a strange concatenation of
circumstances, they say that's a miracle. But of course if someone is killed
by a freak chain of events -- the oil spilled just there, the safety fence
broke just there -- that must also be a miracle. Just because it's not nice
doesn't mean it's not miraculous." Terry Pratchett