On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:02:22 UTC, beerbarrel
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:21:35 -0400, dxAce
wrote:


The written test probably does as well. Should that also be dropped.

If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no business in amateur
radio. 5 WPM is incredibly easy, heck, even the 'tards should be able to master
that.

dxAce
Michigan
USA



CW is not going to go away just because they drop the requirement.
Like Steve says, It's not that hard. Most anyone can learn 5 wpm in as
little as a month or less. I think that something worth having is
worth earning.
That might have been true in Samuel F.B.Morse's time. Get real, code
is an archaic leftover from the "old days" and has been used merely as
a "stumbling block" to keep the hobby a closed society. In fact,
radio itself seems to be going the way of the dodo bird, what with
satellite, internet, etc. Code is about as useful as C.W. McCall'
song about CB radio back in the 70's. I am not sitting at a key,
wearing gaiters on my sleeves, a green visor and tapping out code over
the air while the ship hits an iceberg. Come into the 21st century
for Christ's sake. Should everybody go back to spark controls on an
automobile? Attic fans and no A/C? McGuffey's Reader? Face it,
people, technology and now rules, have to move on. Of course, I drive
a 1940 Chrysler, so what do I know!

--
"What do you mean there's no movie?"

beerbarrel wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 14:39:12 -0400, dxAce
wrote:



John Plimmer wrote:

I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test.
It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa.
It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high school
and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree.
That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the dinosaurs.
Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with high
quality judges and advocates.
The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer spew out
Latin quotations = R.I.P.

Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the year
and the once crowded ham bands are now empty.
We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this wonderful
hobby.

Why does everything need to be made easier? Can't the 'tards learn the code? If
so, WHY can't the 'tards learn the code?

If ordinary folks could pass the test in years past what is so different today?

Laziness?

dxAce
Michigan
USA


BINGO!

It seems everybody wants something for nothing these days.

Not everybody... just lazy 'tards.

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Code proficient

Count Floyd wrote:

That might have been true in Samuel F.B.Morse's time. Get real, code
is an archaic leftover from the "old days" and has been used merely as
a "stumbling block" to keep the hobby a closed society. In fact,
radio itself seems to be going the way of the dodo bird, what with
satellite, internet, etc. Code is about as useful as C.W. McCall'
song about CB radio back in the 70's. I am not sitting at a key,
wearing gaiters on my sleeves, a green visor and tapping out code over
the air while the ship hits an iceberg. Come into the 21st century
for Christ's sake. Should everybody go back to spark controls on an
automobile? Attic fans and no A/C? McGuffey's Reader? Face it,
people, technology and now rules, have to move on. Of course, I drive
a 1940 Chrysler, so what do I know!


McGuffey's Reader is still in publication, and folks who do home
schooling claim they're better than recent textbooks for teaching the
basics.

But I'll agree with you on the code.

All that can be taken care of with new bandwidth allocations. All we
do is benefit from is finally getting some new and interesting minds
to communicate with. Chatting with ancients farts gets old quickly...

John

"beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:51:10 -0500, "MnMikew"
wrote:


"beerbarrel" wrote in message
. ..
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:21:35 -0400, dxAce
wrote:


The written test probably does as well. Should that also be
dropped.

If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no
business in
amateur
radio. 5 WPM is incredibly easy, heck, even the 'tards should be
able to
master
that.

dxAce
Michigan
USA



CW is not going to go away just because they drop the requirement.
Like Steve says, It's not that hard. Most anyone can learn 5 wpm
in as
little as a month or less. I think that something worth having is
worth earning.

I say give techs a piece of HF and if they like HF, they can take
the test
to get access to the rest of it. I'm half-heartedly studying for the
tech
test and only really have interest in 2m right now.




I guess I would never agree to that because I worked to pass the
test.
It's just like the older guys doing 18 wpm. They don't see 5 wpm as
a
test. If they gave Tech's a small piece of the HF band can you
imagine
the crowd on that band? I think that you would wind up hating HF
because you would be fighting pile ups all the time. Bottom line, I
think that it would make you feel better to earn it rather than have
it given to you. It makes you appreciate it more.

It's not going to help at all to cut CW. It won't bring more folks
into ham radio. It will only serve to create more traffic on the HF
bands.

As far as 2m goes, It's great for a little while, but it gets boring
pretty quick. HF is they way to go. You will see.

beerbarrel wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:29:37 -0400, Cmdr Buzz Corey
wrote:

John S. wrote:


Yes, or require that prospective drivers be proficient in the use of a
buggy whip in addition to passing a written and practical driving test.


If they are going to drive a buggy, it might be a good idea.



Maybe we should just drop the driving test altogether...well start
with your kids.

And that's the point. The written and practical drivers test is a
measure of whether a prospective driver knows something about the law
and theory of driving and has some proficiency in the operation of a
motor vehicle.

The written amateur test proves that the owner has some knowlege of the
theory of radio construction and operation.

The morse code test only tests the ability to translate a language for
which there is no practical use. It does not shed any light on the
ability if the prospective ham to operate a ham radio in a safe and
courteous manner. A live on-the-air test of a prospective ham setting
up a rig and using voice or one of the digital modes would prove
something about his competence as a radio operator.

Copying morse code proves nothing.

On that logic, we should all use sign language. It is silent and
doesn't disturb anyone.

John

"beerbarrel" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:40:38 -0500, "Count Floyd"
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 17:02:22 UTC, beerbarrel
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 12:21:35 -0400, dxAce
wrote:


The written test probably does as well. Should that also be
dropped.

If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no
business in amateur
radio. 5 WPM is incredibly easy, heck, even the 'tards should be
able to master
that.

dxAce
Michigan
USA



CW is not going to go away just because they drop the requirement.
Like Steve says, It's not that hard. Most anyone can learn 5 wpm
in as
little as a month or less. I think that something worth having is
worth earning.
That might have been true in Samuel F.B.Morse's time. Get real,
code
is an archaic leftover from the "old days" and has been used merely
as
a "stumbling block" to keep the hobby a closed society. In fact,
radio itself seems to be going the way of the dodo bird, what with
satellite, internet, etc. Code is about as useful as C.W. McCall'
song about CB radio back in the 70's. I am not sitting at a key,
wearing gaiters on my sleeves, a green visor and tapping out code
over
the air while the ship hits an iceberg. Come into the 21st century
for Christ's sake. Should everybody go back to spark controls on an
automobile? Attic fans and no A/C? McGuffey's Reader? Face it,
people, technology and now rules, have to move on. Of course, I
drive
a 1940 Chrysler, so what do I know!




CW is efficient because you only have to understand the signal
pattern
and not the signal audio. The narrow signal also takes up little
bandwidth. Not only does this make CW very efficient but also the
most
reliable form of communication for a person to use.

"John S." wrote:

beerbarrel wrote:
On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 13:29:37 -0400, Cmdr Buzz Corey
wrote:

John S. wrote:


Yes, or require that prospective drivers be proficient in the use of a
buggy whip in addition to passing a written and practical driving test.


If they are going to drive a buggy, it might be a good idea.



Maybe we should just drop the driving test altogether...well start
with your kids.

And that's the point. The written and practical drivers test is a
measure of whether a prospective driver knows something about the law
and theory of driving and has some proficiency in the operation of a
motor vehicle.

The written amateur test proves that the owner has some knowlege of the
theory of radio construction and operation.

The morse code test only tests the ability to translate a language for
which there is no practical use. It does not shed any light on the
ability if the prospective ham to operate a ham radio in a safe and
courteous manner. A live on-the-air test of a prospective ham setting
up a rig and using voice or one of the digital modes would prove
something about his competence as a radio operator.

Copying morse code proves nothing.

Sure it does you stupid 'tard... it proves one can do it!

I take it that perhaps YOU can't.

Keep trying!

dxAce
Michigan
USA

Code proficient.

From the posts which follow this one of yours, it is plain these
fellows last interest is in really getting a lot of people on the
bands to communicate with. Indeed, for some strange reason the think
themselves "special", just like those latin chanting lawyers you
pointed out.

In all truth, these guys should have their radios taken away, all they
are coming up with is ways to hamper the hobby!

John

"John Plimmer" wrote in message
...
I couldn't agree more with dropping CW from the ham test.
It reminds me of the legal profession here in South Africa.
It used to be a requirement that lawyers had to pass Latin in high
school
and have at least two courses in Latin for their law degree.
That was scrapped about ten years ago amid loud protests from the
dinosaurs.
Today the law profession is flourishing more than ever before with
high
quality judges and advocates.
The only thing I have noticed is that the high and mighty no longer
spew out
Latin quotations = R.I.P.

Our SARL (South African Radio League) ham club is diminishing by the
year
and the once crowded ham bands are now empty.
We need to make it easier for new entrants to come into this
wonderful
hobby.

--
John Plimmer, Montagu, Western Cape Province, South Africa
South 33 d 47 m 32 s, East 20 d 07 m 32 s
RX Icom IC-756 PRO III with MW mods
Drake SW8 & ERGO software
Sony 7600D GE SRIII
BW XCR 30, Braun T1000, Sangean 818 & 803A.
Hallicrafters SX-100, Eddystone 940
GE circa 50's radiogram
Antenna's RF Systems DX 1 Pro, Datong AD-270
Kiwa MW Loop
http://www.dxing.info/about/dxers/plimmer.dx

"John Smith" wrote in message
...
MnMikew:

Interesting theory. We could propose a test to see if what you say
is
true.

Say, require a person to do 5 WPM before they can use usenet, IRC
or
IM clients? ROFLOL!

Perhaps we would find it is actually a "good thing." Next we could
require a person be able to rollerskate 5 miles over rough pavement
before we allow them a drivers license? I mean, what if traffic is
too heavy or their car breaks down--it will be useful! grin

John

I don't think they are going to be driving a buggy, nor using CW!
ROFLOL!!!

John

"John S." wrote in message
oups.com...


John Smith wrote:
MnMikew:

Interesting theory. We could propose a test to see if what you say
is
true.

Say, require a person to do 5 WPM before they can use usenet, IRC
or
IM clients? ROFLOL!

Perhaps we would find it is actually a "good thing." Next we could
require a person be able to rollerskate 5 miles over rough pavement
before we allow them a drivers license? I mean, what if traffic is
too heavy or their car breaks down--it will be useful! grin

John

Yes, or require that prospective drivers be proficient in the use of
a
buggy whip in addition to passing a written and practical driving
test.

dxAce wrote:

If one can't learn even a minimum 5 WPM then they have no business in amateur
radio.

Could you please explain why you say that.

To state the obvious, CW is just one of *many* modes available to hams;
moon bounce, meteor scatter, lots of digital modes (PSK, MFSK, RTTY,
Hellschrieber and probably a few I missed), slow scan TV, fast scan TV,
APRS and on and on.

CW-just another mode. Why test for it and not test for, say, moon
bounce? You probably missed it, but a while ago the FCC said CW was
required in the old days when CW was primarily used for marine
safety-they didn't want hams to be transmitting over distress calls.
That was it. Period. As you are well aware, CW for maritime applications
is virtually dead.

Before you think I am a whining, sniveling "no coder", I am a 20 wpm
Extra who operates 20% digi modes and 80% CW, fairly comfortable at
25-30 wpm.

And puh-leze, don't even think about trotting out the old saw that "I
had to learn the code so the new guys should too". That's akin to saying
everyone should hand crank the engine on their car rather than using
those new fangled $#@*^! electric starters.

73,
Carter K8VT