Michael Coslo wrote:
Okay Cecil. I apologize, for I have upset you, quite a bit it
appears.

You haven't upset me, Mike. Hillary Clinton, Fidel Castro,
and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad upset me because they believe my
life belongs to the state. You don't believe that, do you?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

On Tue, 05 Sep 2006 07:24:41 GMT, "Tom Donaly"
wrote:

Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like
that from Libertarians.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH
(P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.)

Hi Tom,

I've probably voted for more Libertarians on one ballot than either of
them in their lives. We need more genetic diversity in the political
gene pool. Problem is those parties don't work nearly hard enough to
build a grass-roots. Umm, I should ammend that and say they don't
work at all to do it.

Third parties are invariably so self-centered that they want to start
at the top (notably Lyndon Larouche). Unfortunately, courtesy of W we
now have an example of how that turns out when the most left wing
fascist elements put their man in at the top, and the right wing has
voted in politburo lock-step to advanced the party planks of Leon
Trotsky. All Larouche needs to learn is how to haul down the flag,
and start waving bacon.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht"
wrote:

I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages
to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the
ionisphere and eat ozone.

Hi Fred,

Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are
heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors?
Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands
here in Seattle.

They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates
convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More
heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more
pollution.

Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows,
compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most
technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Damn Richard, I totally forgot about all the heat rising at the South pole.
Thank you ever so much for correcting my ignorance...

I should know better than to belive that right wing publishing company, of
the running dog capitalists, the New York Times.

Their Discovery channel that went to great lengths to explain why there were
no clouds and rarely any snow at the south pole.

Let me give you an easier one, how did the freon get across the doldrums?
More magical properties?

History will note the second dark ages as the period when academics was
corrupeted by money and politics of the left. We on the otherhand are
blessed to live during this era of junk science.





"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht"
wrote:

I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air,
manages
to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the
ionisphere and eat ozone.

Hi Fred,

Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are
heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors?
Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands
here in Seattle.

They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates
convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More
heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more
pollution.

Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows,
compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most
technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 15:18:42 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht"
wrote:

Damn Richard, I totally forgot about all the heat rising at the South pole.
Thank you ever so much for correcting my ignorance...

Hi Fred,

You thought heat falls over the South Pole? Curious, but correction
was necessary, obviously.

I should know better than to belive that right wing publishing company, of
the running dog capitalists, the New York Times.

Ah, more correction is necessary I see.

Their Discovery channel that went to great lengths to explain why there were
no clouds and rarely any snow at the south pole.

Their's? (The NYT's?) More correction in that the Times has a
program, Discovery Times on the Discovery Channel.

Discovery Channel, on the other hand, is from the Discovery
Communications conglomerate which includes that ultra-liberal Military
Channel which was formerly Discovery Wings.

Let me give you an easier one, how did the freon get across the doldrums?
More magical properties?

Doldrums, like the depression currently encountered by voters with the
current administration? Or Doldrums as in the Horse Latitudes, trade
winds and all that lower atmosphere stuff that resides below the Ozone
layer that Freon (CFCs) has been eroding?

Let's see, you put together CFCs, Ozone, and ionizing radiation where
it is (and not where it ain't) and you punch a hole from the
combination.

I suppose if the earth's magnetic poles were situated in Morocco and
Hawaii (the east and west pole?); then the stream of ionization
radiation from the sun, combining with the far richer CFC and Ozone
combination above the equator would have holes in the ionosphere the
size of Mars, instead of the size of the United States.

History will note the second dark ages as the period when academics was
corrupeted by money and politics of the left. We on the otherhand are
blessed to live during this era of junk science.

What are the medical insurance coverages for Creationist science
carcinoma treatment?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Cecil Moore wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:
Okay Cecil. I apologize, for I have upset you, quite a bit it appears.

You haven't upset me, Mike. Hillary Clinton, Fidel Castro,
and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad upset me because they believe my
life belongs to the state. You don't believe that, do you?


Heck No! Just when you wrote that back to my reply to whatever post I
replied to , it looked like you were p****d at me.


Okay, I'll reset.


- 73 DE MIKE KB3EIA -

Richard Clark wrote:
On Tue, 5 Sep 2006 13:16:41 -0400, "Fred Hambrecht"
wrote:

I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages
to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the
ionisphere and eat ozone.

Hi Fred,

Hmmm, water is heavier than air. How does it manage? Even clouds are
heavier than air. Rain comes from asteroids, comets, and meteors?
Dust is heavier than air, as is smoke that comes from China and lands
here in Seattle.

They all rise from the same mechanism - sunlight. Heat generates
convection currents. Currents raise pollution that traps heat. More
heat generates more convection currents. More currents raise more
pollution.

Arguably "more" is by slight degrees, but as any capitalist knows,
compound interest is where the money (pollution) is, and most
technicians have had experience with Thermal Runaway.



Another way of looking at it is that Freon is indeed heavier than air.
So is dust, so is salt, so is ice. All these things can reach high into
the atmosphere. We know when spring plowing happens in China, because a
fair amount of dust reaches us. Well, that freon is a lot lighter than
the dust. It can be stirred up by the wind, which is derived from sunlight.

Salt spray can also be measured in the stratosphere, and it is much
much heavier than Freon.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Fred Hambrecht wrote:

REDACTED

I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air, manages
to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb to the
ionisphere and eat ozone.

CO2 is also heavier than air, about 1.5 X air [at standard conditions].

What's missing from the observation are the effects of a turbulent atmosphere
and the specific heat of both freon and CO2 molecules, among others.

In the absence of solar heating and air turbulence both CO2 and FREON would be
hugging the earth's surface and we most likely would not be here [suffocated].

I'm not an atmospheric physicist, but I expect that both CO2 and Freon have
three dimensional motion. They absorb energy from the sun at different rates
[their specific heats and photon absorption cross sections are significantly
different] and expand [become lighter in terms of grams/m^3 @ p=cons.]. Air also
absorbs energy from the sun and expands. The three expansion rates are different
and cause a 'general' lift to the individual gases. This 'lift' is not laminar,
and therefore contributes to a turbulent atmosphere [AKA wind]. As part of the
turbulent flow the heavier molecules are lifted to higher altitudes where they
expand further [become lighter in terms of grams/M^3][Similar to clouds].
Eventually, the lift has insufficient buoyancy to sustain the heavier molecules
and they start a drift back to earth. Some return to earth level. Others are
caught in the updraft and re-cycle to a higher altitude [similar to a vortex
phenomena].

My hypothesis, and qualitative description, would lead to a conclusion that a
band, a thick layer, a region [similar to the E or F regions we are familiar
with] of turbulent heavy gases of varying density forms above the sensible
atmosphere and exhibits turbulent rotation similar to a vortex.

I'm ignorant here and this is just a hypothesis. If we have any atmospheric
physicists or meteorologists on the list I would love to be properly instructed.

/s/ DD, W1MCE

Dave wrote:
Tom Donaly wrote:

SNIPPED



Richard, he's a Libertarian. You have to expect sentences like
that from Libertarians.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH
(P.S. Cecil is a Libertarian, too.)


Libertarian = Anarchy rules!
Democratic = Tyranny of the majority rules!
Republican = Strong private sector economy rules!
In S. America it is known as Oligarchy
Socialist = Elitist know what's best for you and me.
Green Party = Nature rules, the hell with people.
Conservationist = Dinosaur's rule.

/s/ DD

Fred Hambrecht wrote:
The "sky is falling folks" also fail to take into account the nutation of
the earth that causes the earth to be tilted towards the sun a bit more...
Kinda like the difference between winter and summer tilt.

It takes one hell of an ego to think that puny man can affect the earths
climate.

PUNY MAN?


I still await an explanation of how freon, that is heavier than air,
manages
to make it to the South pole and finds the magical propert to climb
to the
ionisphere and eat ozone.

See a first-year Chemistry textbook for details



Remember free-radicals? (not the jailed ones of the '60's)

Free radical Cl. can and does enter the atmosphere and it is a product
of the dissociation of freon. This is what destroys the ozone, IIRC.

Hoping my college course memory isn't too far off target.