Cecil Moore wrote:
John - KD5YI wrote:
Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil.

Here's the inconvenient truth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

The same thing has happened five times in the past
500,000 years including a few hundred thousand years
before man ever walked the earth. Who caused the
last four global warming cycles?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

It was obviously dinosaurs driving 32 cylinder Brontosaurus MK II SUV's.

--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

My son recently took a flight where he had to give up his toothpaste, it
might have made sense except he and the entire passenger list were each
carring M-16's with 3 clips of ammo as they returned from Iraq.

"Richard Clark" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 01 Sep 2006 23:56:26 GMT, Owen Duffy wrote:

That information has been considered a secret that is vital to the
interests of the United States of the Republican Party and is on the
list of items not allowed on board airplanes, nor to be transported by
skateboard across the border of any state contiguously bordering
Texas, except Venezuela. Those Data Sheets have been removed from the
public archive by the CIA so as to eliminate any possibility of this
newly classified material falling into the hands of terrorists.

Don't ask us about toothpaste or the FBI's network monitoring will
kick into mauve alert level.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Fred Hambrecht wrote:
My son recently took a flight where he had to give up his toothpaste, it
might have made sense except he and the entire passenger list were each
carring M-16's with 3 clips of ammo as they returned from Iraq.

A statement about the present insanity. They took
away my fingernail clippers.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:
John - KD5YI wrote:

Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil.


Here's the inconvenient truth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age

The same thing has happened five times in the past
500,000 years including a few hundred thousand years
before man ever walked the earth. Who caused the
last four global warming cycles?


What are you talking about Cecil? You are presupposing that the "other"
side is saying that all global warming is due to Human activity.

It isn't. Volcanoes can belch out a lot of the stuff. There is a good
chance that methane ice at the bottom of some parts of the ocean can
"let loose" a lot of global warming material.

Of course the obvious answer to your question is "not humans".

And equally of course, the question is not relevant.

There are many answers to your question. No doubt that precession has a
lot to do with it. The Sun itself can vary. I can't imagine that the
Deccan Trap episode of volcanism didn't warm things up after the initial
cooling effect it must have had. Didn't have a thing to do with human
beings.

But your argument has a fatal flaw. That not all causes of global
warming are caused by humans does not mean that none are.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
But your argument has a fatal flaw. That not all causes of global
warming are caused by humans does not mean that none are.

Please stop confusing inclusive assertions with exclusive
assertions.

That is NOT my argument. My argument is that it has not
been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that man has any
primary effect on global warming. "Man-causing-global-
warming" is a religion, based on faith, IMHO. In fact,
it seems more likely that man's CO2 contribution to the
atmosphere will do nothing more than hasten the next
ice age.

Take a look at the slope of the C02 buildup of 120k
years ago just before the last ice age. It is very close
to the slope of the C02 buildup of today. There is evidence
that ~280 ppmv levels of C02 triggered ice ages 120k, 240k,
340k, and 440k years ago. That's about the level of CO2
today. There is reason to believe that another ice age
is poised to happen and the Man-causing-global-warming
religion will no doubt blame man for it.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Cecil Moore wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:

Here's the inconvenient truth:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ice_age


Here more from "21st Century Science and Technology"

http://www.21stcenturysciencetech.co...al_warming.pdf


Some thoughts upon reading the article...

I wonder which "arm of the Milky Way" we "passed through", and what
area of "intensive star creation" we passed through. Celestial mechanics
and time-scales being what they are, the answer would (should) be obvious.

BTW, we are IN an arm of the Milky way, there are no other nearby
galaxies, save Andromeda, which although rushing toward us, is still
comfortably far away. Perhaps the Magellanic clouds?

I notice on page 56 of the article - page 6 of the he pulls out the
political trump card.

Quote from article:

"The Mann et al. papers had a political edge: They served as
a counterweight against President George W. Bush’s negative
stand toward the Kyoto Protocol as “fatally flawed,” and his
attempt to lessen the economic global catastrophe that Kyoto
would induce".

WELL! At least this fine fellow wasn't being political!!!

Sorry Cecil, as a political piece, this has some merit. As science, it
treads dangerously close to creationism.


And in the end, it fails to explain what I want all along. That is:


The effect of Differing amounts of CO2 on atmospheric thermal retention
has been a well documented fact since the 1840's. Assuming that there is
no effect on the global temperatures from combustion that releases more
CO2 into the atmosphere than would normally happen, what is the
mechanism that compensates for this release?

I've heard a few things, such as increased planktonic or increased
vegetation sequestering, but shouldn't that keep a pretty
tight, ie close control over the situation?


- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 02 Sep 2006 17:15:53 GMT, John - KD5YI
wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:


Mike Coslo wrote:


I won't say that global warming is happening or not.



Of course, global warming is happening. It has been
going on for tens of thousands of years and happens
every time the earth cyclically emerges from an ice
age as it is doing now.



I'm speaking of CO2 based global warming, whether as the results of
say volcanic activity, or as a result of the amount of CO2 added to the
atmosphere as a result of combustion release.


May I assume that you believe that glacial cycles are the sole
source of global warming or cooling?

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -



Hey, Mike. The truth is inconvenient for Cecil.


Hi John,

Cecil's answer, like those of so many politicians, embraces a faulty
premise to dismiss discussion. Imagine those same administration
savants on the upcoming 5th anniversary asking for yet another board
of enquiry for a study into the possibility of WMD in Iraq. That
didn't happen, and yet we get this interminable "Global Warming isn't
so, and it isn't from ____" (fill in the blank with any of a number of
their favorite red herrings).

And when it is finally incontrovertible, we'll have moans of
"we just didn't know at the time!"

I only hope I live long enough to see how they figure out a way to
blame it on the leeburulls!


Next week, how Creation Science will have our cars running on water to
wean us from terrorist oil.


If you have enough faith, manna, oops.. I mean fuel, will appear each
morning in your Escalade... ;^)


- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Cecil Moore wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

But your argument has a fatal flaw. That not all causes of global
warming are caused by humans does not mean that none are.


Please stop confusing inclusive assertions with exclusive
assertions.

That is NOT my argument. My argument is that it has not
been proved beyond a reasonable doubt that man has any
primary effect on global warming.

Please stop changing the argument to serve your own purposes, Cecil!


"Man-causing-global-
warming" is a religion, based on faith, IMHO.

Right. In your opinion.

In fact,
it seems more likely that man's CO2 contribution to the
atmosphere will do nothing more than hasten the next
ice age.

Yeah, Cecil. I read the political-crypto-scientific article in your
link. It wasn't science. It had a political premise, then tried to build
a scientific story around it. Seriously, if the solar system passed
through an arm of the Milky way with extensive star formation, which one
was it? Did an arm of the Milky way come unattached and attack our
particular arm? Celestial mechanics isn't easy to open to political
attack, at least since the Pope pardoned Galileo.

What I am trying to say is "where's the beef?"


Take a look at the slope of the C02 buildup of 120k
years ago just before the last ice age. It is very close
to the slope of the C02 buildup of today. There is evidence
that ~280 ppmv levels of C02 triggered ice ages 120k, 240k,
340k, and 440k years ago. That's about the level of CO2
today. There is reason to believe that another ice age
is poised to happen and the Man-causing-global-warming
religion will no doubt blame man for it.


Sigh... Why do I get the feeling that you are giving me some ready made
arguments for someone else's questions? I'm not arguing whether or not
man is causing global warming, or even if there is such a thing. I want
to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not warming
the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking)

No Republican, Democrat, or religion answers accepted. Just science.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Mike Coslo wrote:
The effect of Differing amounts of CO2 on atmospheric thermal
retention has been a well documented fact since the 1840's.

Yes, and the 11 year sunspot cycle has been a well documented
fact for thousands of years. Does puny man have any more
control over the 100K year CO2 cycle than he does over the
11 year sunspot cycle. Methinks you (and others) suffer
from delusions of grandeur. Why do you think the CO2 levels
*ALWAYS* drop after they reach ~280 ppmv? Do you think man
can do anything to block that ~100k year drop in CO2 levels?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp

Mike Coslo wrote:
I
want to know why an increased amount of CO2 in the atmosphere is not
warming the earth, when it should be (experimentally speaking)

Something causes an ice age every time the CO2 level
gets up to a threshold of ~280 PPMV, approximately
what it is today.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp