Dave Shrader wrote:
Hey Cecil, What's this 'conservation of charge'?

From _University_Physics_ 9th edition by Young and Freedman:
"principle of conservation of charge: The algebraic sum of all
the electric charges in any closed system is constant."
Example: If one combines a proton (+1) and an electron (-1)
one gets a neutron (0) which will often decay back into a
proton (+1) and an electron (-1).

In practice, it means that if N electrons flow into both ends
of a coil during 1/2 cycle, N electrons will flow out of both
ends of the same coil during the next 1/2 cycle. Thus, current
flowing into both ends of a phase-reversing coil at the same
time does NOT violate the conservation of charge principle
when averaged over an entire cycle.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Wes Stewart wrote:

wrote:
|Don't know how. But assuming I can learn how to do that in HTML, I'll
|try to post those files tomorrow.

As you can see from my home page I'm not, nor do I want to be, a web
page designer. But even I know that you can just ftp your files to
your web page. You don't need to create a link on a page, just tell
us the file name. I do it all the time.

Thanks for the tips, Wes, and it does work. The names of the .EZ files
are on the .gif graphic that I prepared which illustrates the current
magnitudes and phases for 3/2WL phased arrays.

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/phasesbw.gif
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP



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Cecil,

This has become unusually entertaining.

You have declared experimentation to be unnecessary, e.g., your Diamond antenna
story. You have declared math models to be unnecessary and incorrect on numerous
occasions.

I have worked with a lot of scientists in my career; some were experimentally
biased, some were theoretically biased, and many understood that both approaches
were useful.

However, I do not believe I have ever encountered a "scientist" who rejected
both experimental and mathematical approaches at the same time.

73,
Gene
W4SZ



Cecil Moore wrote:

snip

If your math disagrees with
reality, it is simply wrong and has turned into a religious belief.
You are free to worship at the alter of mathematics but please don't
expect the rest of us scientists to join you there.

Cecil
Regarding inductance and computor programs
and the drawings shown in your post addition
May I suggest the following
Since a straight line radiator contains the elements of resistance,
capacitance and inductance it can also be shown as a loop radiator ( many
books show it that way ) If you replace some or all of the center portion
by a loop circuit it will clearly show a phase change.
This method serves as a substitute for the insertion of a lumped load and
changing it from a dimensionaless object to one of dimensions.that can
radiate.
If one shows this change it would add insight to the
the drawings where inductor physical length can be portrayed.

Regards
Art

"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Wes Stewart wrote:

wrote:
|Don't know how. But assuming I can learn how to do that in HTML, I'll
|try to post those files tomorrow.

As you can see from my home page I'm not, nor do I want to be, a web
page designer. But even I know that you can just ftp your files to
your web page. You don't need to create a link on a page, just tell
us the file name. I do it all the time.

Thanks for the tips, Wes, and it does work. The names of the .EZ files
are on the .gif graphic that I prepared which illustrates the current
magnitudes and phases for 3/2WL phased arrays.

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/phasesbw.gif
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP



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Gene Fuller wrote:
However, I do not believe I have ever encountered a "scientist" who
rejected both experimental and mathematical approaches at the same time.

Gene, experimenting with photocells to prove that day follows night
would be a waste of my time. I don't reject the concept of experimenting,
just experiments that waste my time for no benefit. If a math model says
that day doesn't follow night, it should be rejected.

A 3/4WL monopole is not a good UHF antenna. However, if the bottom
1/4WL is separated from the top 1/2WL by a phase-reversing coil,
the antenna has gain over a quarterwave monopole. The Diamond antenna
engineers don't care about your sacred cows.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil Moore wrote:
Thanks for the tips, Wes, and it does work. The names of the .EZ files
are on the .gif graphic that I prepared which illustrates the current
magnitudes and phases for 3/2WL phased arrays.

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/phasesbw.gif

For anyone who wants to download those EZNEC files, be sure the file
names are capitalized - UNIX strikes again.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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This has become unusually entertaining.
....... snipydyduda
However, I do not believe I have ever encountered a "scientist" who rejected
both experimental and mathematical approaches at the same time.

73,
Gene
W4SZ




Hey,
this is getting off on the tangent, away from the original "problem".
I and Barry W9UCW found, measured differences in the typical loading coil
currents in order of 40 - 60%. See article and pictures on my web www.K3BU.us.
W8JI and flat earth society proclaimed it can't be so. They argued and
"calculated" that current at both ends of a loading coil in quarter wave loaded
radiator has to be the same. W5DXP explained why the current is different,
other sources and past publications affirm that.

As I mentioned, time permitting, I will put together article explaining what is
happening, describe experiments that can be replicated by non-believers and
elaborate on the significance of the effect on the design of shortened (loaded)
antennas.

Nobody has argued the seven points I raised earlier, and those who measured,
including W8JI found that current IS different (but still says it is NOT).

The reality is that current is different, Eznec can't model it, you can
speculate and theorize all you want, it will not revert the Earth to be flat.
Big men will admit they were wrong, thank the enlighteners and RF life goes on.

Yuri, K3BU.us

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
Nobody has argued the seven points I raised earlier, and those who measured,
including W8JI found that current IS different (but still says it is NOT).

The reality is that current is different, Eznec can't model it, ...

Yuri, have you read Wes's article? Using wire segments, he modeled a loading
coil in EZNEC. His segmented wire model of a coil shows a current taper
through the coil. It's on his web page at: http://www.qsl.net/n7ws
You can also download Wes's zipped EZNEC files.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Richard Clark wrote,

On 31 Jan 2004 02:18:33 GMT, (Tdonaly) wrote:

This is vintage Moore.

You were expecting chopped liver? Tom, you and Wes and.... know
better.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Hi Richard,
yes, we do, but you can't get the monkeys to perform
unless you rattle their cage.
73,
Tom Donaly

Yuri,

You are absolutely correct; this thread has drifted beyond recognition.

Please note that I have never questioned your experiment or your data. I am
merely commenting on the highly unscientific handwaving approach taken RRAA's
most prolific "scientist".

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
This has become unusually entertaining.
....... snipydyduda
However, I do not believe I have ever encountered a "scientist" who rejected
both experimental and mathematical approaches at the same time.

73,
Gene
W4SZ





Hey,
this is getting off on the tangent, away from the original "problem".
I and Barry W9UCW found, measured differences in the typical loading coil
currents in order of 40 - 60%. See article and pictures on my web www.K3BU.us.
W8JI and flat earth society proclaimed it can't be so. They argued and
"calculated" that current at both ends of a loading coil in quarter wave loaded
radiator has to be the same. W5DXP explained why the current is different,
other sources and past publications affirm that.

As I mentioned, time permitting, I will put together article explaining what is
happening, describe experiments that can be replicated by non-believers and
elaborate on the significance of the effect on the design of shortened (loaded)
antennas.

Nobody has argued the seven points I raised earlier, and those who measured,
including W8JI found that current IS different (but still says it is NOT).

The reality is that current is different, Eznec can't model it, you can
speculate and theorize all you want, it will not revert the Earth to be flat.
Big men will admit they were wrong, thank the enlighteners and RF life goes on.

Yuri, K3BU.us