On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 10:11:38 -0800, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 08:51:05 -0800 (PST), Art Unwin
wrote:

Thus you
cannot access it on the net as a member of the public as access is
with held UNLESS
you hand over some money to the IEEE.

Who needs the IEEE? I've found every new design offered - FOR FREE
from the universities! And every one of those "new designs" mentioned
here were worth every penny I spent.

Out of curiosity, does that include the IEEE Transactions on Antennas
and Propagation and the IEEE Antenna and Propagation Magazine? I'm
currently debating the merits of re-joining the IEEE mostly to obtain
these publications. In the past, they were literally gold mines of
interesting ideas on antennas. However, like all gold mines, I had to
dig through a considerable amound of rubble and useless garbage to
find the gold. I've seen little of this stuff on university web
piles, except after publication by the IEEE. I drag myself up to UCSC
and borrow a few issues, but I prefer to have them online
(downloadable and searchable) which costs money.

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?



--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Out of curiosity, does that include the IEEE Transactions on Antennas
and Propagation and the IEEE Antenna and Propagation Magazine? I'm
currently debating the merits of re-joining the IEEE mostly to obtain
these publications. In the past, they were literally gold mines of
interesting ideas on antennas. However, like all gold mines, I had to
dig through a considerable amound of rubble and useless garbage to
find the gold. I've seen little of this stuff on university web
piles, except after publication by the IEEE. I drag myself up to UCSC
and borrow a few issues, but I prefer to have them online
(downloadable and searchable) which costs money.

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?

A lot of universities have Transactions for most of the societies like A
& P as well as the Proceedings. IEEE members get free access to online
Proceedings and all past issues of Transactions for all societies they
belong to. For example, if you're a member of Antennas and Propagation,
you can access online any paper in any issue of the Transactions on
Antennas & Propagation. The incremental cost for joining a society is
modest -- A & P is $36.00 per year once you're an IEEE member. (I think
you can get Trans. on A & P or others without joining, but at a much
higher price.) I just renewed my membership and joined the Microwave
Theory & Techniques Society for only an additional $14.00. Now I'll have
online access to all the past Transactions for that group.

Incidentally, anyone can purchase and download any individual IEEE paper
online for around $20. A lot of other organizations like the IEE (U.K.),
physics societies, etc. have a similar offer. I've gone this route a
number of times when it was worth it to me to avoid the hassle of going
downtown to the university library or waiting for an interlibrary transfer.

If you're used to looking at A & P transactions from the '40s through
the '60s, you'll probably be disappointed with current issues. Research
has always concentrated on where the money is, and now it's coming from
much different industries than it was a few decades ago. Samplings from
the current issue: "Synthesized-Reference-Wave Holography for
Determining Antenna Radiation Characteristics" and "Parallel In-Core and
Out-of-Core Solution of Electrically Large Problems Using the RWG Basis
Functions". No Brown, Lewis, and Epstein papers, those! But there was an
interesting paper on putting RFID tags on explosive ordnance as a
possible way to locate it when unexploded and buried, and a short paper
on coax loss.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:47:48 -0800, Roy Lewallen
wrote:

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

Out of curiosity, does that include the IEEE Transactions on Antennas
and Propagation and the IEEE Antenna and Propagation Magazine? I'm
currently debating the merits of re-joining the IEEE mostly to obtain
these publications. In the past, they were literally gold mines of
interesting ideas on antennas. However, like all gold mines, I had to
dig through a considerable amound of rubble and useless garbage to
find the gold. I've seen little of this stuff on university web
piles, except after publication by the IEEE. I drag myself up to UCSC
and borrow a few issues, but I prefer to have them online
(downloadable and searchable) which costs money.

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?

A lot of universities have Transactions for most of the societies like A
& P as well as the Proceedings. IEEE members get free access to online
Proceedings and all past issues of Transactions for all societies they
belong to.

It's the ability to search and download proceedings, reports, and
articles that interest me. I do that now at the local multiversity
(UCSC) but there are problems. However, there are problems. Since
I'm not an alumnus, teacher, or employee, the annual cost is about 1/3
of an IEEE membership plus 2 IEEE society memberships. In addition,
some items of interest are not available off campus. The local
library has access, but that requires a pilgrimage to the library
every time I want something. As long as my reading requirements were
minimal, a few trips to the library or paying for individual papers
was cheaper than IEEE membership.

The current economics a
IEEE membership: $169/yr
A & P membership: $24/yr
I couldn't find the current costs of the various printed transactions
and magazines. My guess is at least $40/yr.
With only downloaded issues, that's about $200/yr or $17/month. I
value my working time at about $75/hr. If joining saves me 3 hours of
time, it's break even. That's about how much time I waste on just one
trip to the local university, so I guess membership is justified.
http://www.ieee.org/web/membership/Cost/dues.html
http://www.ict.csiro.au/aps/
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/RecentIssue.jsp?punumber=8

What go my attention and inspired my questions was the alleged free
availability of antenna design articles from various secret university
archives. I've found a few, but nothing compared to the online IEEE
A&P collection.

For example, if you're a member of Antennas and Propagation,
you can access online any paper in any issue of the Transactions on
Antennas & Propagation. The incremental cost for joining a society is
modest -- A & P is $36.00 per year once you're an IEEE member. (I think
you can get Trans. on A & P or others without joining, but at a much
higher price.)

I haven't checked the current numbers but last time I checked, the
annual subscription price was exactly the same as joining the IEEE.
I'm sure that was planned.

I just renewed my membership and joined the Microwave
Theory & Techniques Society for only an additional $14.00. Now I'll have
online access to all the past Transactions for that group.

Hmmm.... I hadn't heard of that group. So many groups, no little
time.

Incidentally, anyone can purchase and download any individual IEEE paper
online for around $20. A lot of other organizations like the IEE (U.K.),
physics societies, etc. have a similar offer. I've gone this route a
number of times when it was worth it to me to avoid the hassle of going
downtown to the university library or waiting for an interlibrary transfer.

I'd forgotten about the wait, which requires two trips to the library.
I ordered several articles from the local library. Apparently, it's a
common thing, costs nothing, and is fairly simple. All the articles
and abstracts are easily searchable on the IEEE web pile, so obtaining
the necessary identification was trivial. What I didn't expect was
that to save the library some money, they only ordered such transfers
on Tuesdays and only delivered perhaps a week later. There was no
charge for hard copy, but an extra charge for having it delivered on a
CDROM, which methinks seems backwards. This was about 2 years ago,
and I haven't done it since.

If you're used to looking at A & P transactions from the '40s through
the '60s, you'll probably be disappointed with current issues. Research
has always concentrated on where the money is, and now it's coming from
much different industries than it was a few decades ago. Samplings from
the current issue: "Synthesized-Reference-Wave Holography for
Determining Antenna Radiation Characteristics" and "Parallel In-Core and
Out-of-Core Solution of Electrically Large Problems Using the RWG Basis
Functions". No Brown, Lewis, and Epstein papers, those! But there was an
interesting paper on putting RFID tags on explosive ordnance as a
possible way to locate it when unexploded and buried, and a short paper
on coax loss.

Sigh. Such esoteric and obscure research pays the bills and feeds the
academics, but also adds considerable clutter. My areas of interest
is probably considered equally narrow and arcane. With a suitable
search engine and filter, I can live with it.

Actually, the current issue doesn't look that horrible:
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org/xpl/tocresult.jsp?isYear=2008&isnumber=4685873&Submit3 2=Go+To+Issue
For example "Internal Coupled-Fed Shorted Monopole Antenna for
GSM850/900/1800/1900/UMTS Operation in the Laptop Computer" appears to
genuinely useful.

Incidentally, there are "delayed" RFID tags of sorts, that use long
term chemical action on the chip or PCB, to activate its operation
after a pre-determined interval. Basically, the chip arrives shorted,
and the short disappears over time. The logic is that RFID can be
used to locate unexploded mines and ordinance after the battle or war
is finished, but not during the action.

Thanks much...

Roy Lewallen, W7EL
--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:01:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?

Hi Jeff,

Surely you must realize that this is not about money (a convenient
foil in this troll topic), but about skill (what the troll lacks).

The cheesy inventions that we have been breathlessly advised of have
the commensurate value of the bandwidth they return in a simple Google
search. It takes very little effort to recognize the moldy
fluorescence surrounding those meager offerings.

If you want the exact article specified, yes you can shell out money.
If you want the research behind it, and probably more data than you
would care to wade through, you simply investigate the investigator.

Myself, if I don't want to spend any more than the cost of bus fare, I
go to the engineering library, check it out, bring it home, scan it,
and its done. As I am on campus twice a week anyway (and the cost of
bus fare is already covered for my other activities), it is hardly an
imposition and the university certainly isn't suppressing me as they
give alumni library privileges.

Even public libraries have online access to special topic databases
(subscriptions) - unless you live in Bumf**k, Illinois.

Now, if you happen to be a troll who visits a campus infrequently only
to spit on their library shelves, I can well imagine the ego-bruised
outrage that is visited upon us here after they give you the bum's
rush.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:59:01 -0800, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:01:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?

Surely you must realize that this is not about money (a convenient
foil in this troll topic), but about skill (what the troll lacks).

If I had money and the necessary skills, I wouldn't be asking dumb
questions in this newsgroup.

The cheesy inventions that we have been breathlessly advised of have
the commensurate value of the bandwidth they return in a simple Google
search. It takes very little effort to recognize the moldy
fluorescence surrounding those meager offerings.

Wrong. Techno-hype became somewhat of a hobby of mine. During the
dot.com boom of the late 1990's, I was deriving considerable income
from doing technical sanity checks on business plans and projects.
During this time, I accumulated a fair collection of patents and ideas
that are pure bogus, yet were successfully promoted at least to the
point of being funded by technically clueless investors. Many are
still around today. Considering extent of the problem, and the fair
number of bogus patents, I would suggest that it is NOT easy to
recognize technical quackery.

If you want the exact article specified, yes you can shell out money.
If you want the research behind it, and probably more data than you
would care to wade through, you simply investigate the investigator.

I've been shelling out the money. I just want to shell out less
money. Your suggestion that there was some secret horde of free
research articles on antenna research at universities caught my
attention. I guess not.

Myself, if I don't want to spend any more than the cost of bus fare, I
go to the engineering library, check it out, bring it home, scan it,
and its done. As I am on campus twice a week anyway (and the cost of
bus fare is already covered for my other activities), it is hardly an
imposition and the university certainly isn't suppressing me as they
give alumni library privileges.

I haven't been on a bus in perhaps 25 years. The local multiversity
(UCSC) is on top of a mountain. I like to bicycle but at my age, the
hill is a challenge. Parking is impossible, expensive, or both. I'm
not an alumni, but am tempted to take exactly one class just to become
one. I've been "borrowing" accounts, but that has it's limitations.

Even public libraries have online access to special topic databases
(subscriptions) - unless you live in Bumf**k, Illinois.

Thanks, but I've tried that. See my other rant in this thread.

Now, if you happen to be a troll who visits a campus infrequently only
to spit on their library shelves, I can well imagine the ego-bruised
outrage that is visited upon us here after they give you the bum's
rush.

Punch my name into the Google Groups search page and read some of my
past postings. Then decide for yourself if I'm a troll or not. This
might help:
http://groups.google.com/groups/profile?hl=en&enc_user=tWGMphwAAAAGTj9X4k0U7wKkGyU 8QhaBhaxMG2M1PWkMtCZAt5tdxQ

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:14:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Surely you must realize that this is not about money (a convenient
foil in this troll topic), but about skill (what the troll lacks).
....
Punch my name into the Google Groups search page and read some of my
past postings. Then decide for yourself if I'm a troll or not.

You didn't originate this decrepit topic did you? Connect the dots.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:45:05 -0800, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 09:14:18 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Surely you must realize that this is not about money (a convenient
foil in this troll topic), but about skill (what the troll lacks).
...
Punch my name into the Google Groups search page and read some of my
past postings. Then decide for yourself if I'm a troll or not.

You didn't originate this decrepit topic did you? Connect the dots.
73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Nope. Art started it. You might want to enable threading on your
newsreader so it's easier to assign the blame.

While not guilty of the original sin, I am guilty of the lesser crime
of engaging in topic drift. I attempted to answer Art's accusations
against the ARRL and the universities. You then mentioned free
antenna articles hidden in secret university archives, and I expanded
on this distraction. It was of interest to me because it might
eliminate the necessity of shelling out $200 to the IEEE for
convenient access.

You also suggested that I might be a usenet troll. I've been accussed
of many things, but not of trolling. If I wanted to play troll, it
would be obvious and fairly evident.

So, back to my original diversion and topic drift:
1. Where this horde of university antenna design articles?
2. Do you think I should keep looking for this horde, or should I
give up now and shell out the $200.
3. After reading some of my 19,000 assorted postings, do you still
think I'm a troll?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 14:59:01 -0800, Richard Clark
wrote:

On Tue, 25 Nov 2008 12:01:35 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

Do I spend the money, or do I seach for your secret horde of free
university publications on antenna design?

Surely you must realize that this is not about money (a convenient
foil in this troll topic), but about skill (what the troll lacks).

If I had money and the necessary skills, I wouldn't be asking dumb
questions in this newsgroup.

The cheesy inventions that we have been breathlessly advised of have
the commensurate value of the bandwidth they return in a simple Google
search. It takes very little effort to recognize the moldy
fluorescence surrounding those meager offerings.

Wrong. Techno-hype became somewhat of a hobby of mine. During the
dot.com boom of the late 1990's, I was deriving considerable income
from doing technical sanity checks on business plans and projects.
During this time, I accumulated a fair collection of patents and ideas
that are pure bogus, yet were successfully promoted at least to the
point of being funded by technically clueless investors. Many are
still around today. Considering extent of the problem, and the fair
number of bogus patents, I would suggest that it is NOT easy to
recognize technical quackery.

Sure it IS easy. Unfortunately, there are plenty enough people who have
Mad Skillz in the suspension of disbelief.

Looking at technical guano and judging it as such is not difficult.
There are ways that dilettantes or the intelligent uninformed can detect
the aroma of hi-tech manure.

In a field where I am mostly ignorant - finance -I called shenanigans
when I first heard of heard of the new breed of ATM's. I yelled fraud
when I heard of the sub prime loans, and shook my head in disbelief as
80 year old people took out 50 year mortgages that folded interest and
principle back into the loan. And yet while I knew the present economic
crisis was coming back around 2003, it seems a whole lot of people
couldn't see that. And I was told by enough of them that my "old school"
view of economics was surely evidence of my stupidity.

In science, economics and technology, the evidence is all there, the
fundamentals are still quite serviceable, and analysis is not
difficult. The problem is that people start out with a basic premise
such as "Owning a house is the American Dream", or "The old guard is
saying that all is already known about antennas", and then trying to fit
everything into *that* philosophical Iron Maiden.

So I can take a look at say Art's antenna, and draw the conclusion that
it is very likely an inductor on the end of a pole, and it will tend to
perform like an EH antenna, with the coax serving as the major radiator.
Contacts can certainly be made. I don't even condemn it out of hand, I
don't think it is anything new, and after looking at it, it just seemed
to be a lot more effort to build than I wanted to trouble myself with.

Yet I'm an uneducated dilettante dummy - most people out there are a lot
smarter than me, so how come they can't figure this out when I can?


`- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Wed, 26 Nov 2008 13:29:20 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

Yet I'm an uneducated dilettante dummy - most people out there are a lot
smarter than me, so how come they can't figure this out when I can?

Hi Mike,

As a girlfriend of mine once offered:
"They've had the common sense educated out of them."

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:

As a girlfriend of mine once offered:
"They've had the common sense educated out of them."


That's a quintessentially American point of view. I highly recommend
_Anti-Intellectualism in American Life_ by Richard Hostadter. It helps
explain why ignorance is such an asset to American politicians (and
schoolchildren, for that matter), while intellectual accomplishments and
ability generally have to be hidden. It won a Pulitzer prize, which of
course proves that the author can't possibly have any common sense.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL