On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 09:58:09 -0800, John Smith
wrote:

However, the part of success in selling snake oil, "In all, it's a
perfectly acceptable small market waiting to be exploited", I'd have to
see to believe ... the market seems saturated already!

Acording to my mentor (now retired), the secret to success for a small
business is to find a narrow corner of the market, so narrow that it
won't attract the attention of the big guys, and do everything you can
to own it. Small companies just don't have the resources of the big
guys. The trick is to avoid them, not lock horns with the big guys..
Therefore, I don't see anyone going into the land mobile, TV, tower,
GPS, cellular, or car antenna business. These certainly are
saturated, although you might be able to compete on a cost basis.
Where small companies have succeeded are in the niche markets, such as
Stepper IR, various weird CB antenna contrivances, and wi-fi antennas.
If you've got connections in Homeland Security, consider military and
paramilitary antenna system.

As for snake oil, I don't consider giving the customer what they want
to be snake oil. If the market demands garrish, weird looking,
strange, camouflaged, and/or colorful antennas, it's not snake oil.
Several vendors have demonstrated that weird looking sells well. If
that's what the customer wants, I don't see a problem.

It's also possible to produce deluxe versions of common antennas. For
example, I suspect a gold plated antenna, with rare earth doping to
improve conductivity, and ceramic insulators made from clay found in
Area 51, to be sellable. It's not that far from what I read in the
audiophile catalogs, with their $500 power cords, wooden amplifier
boxes, glass turntables, and acoustic pretzel speaker enclosures. You
might not sell too many of these deluxe versions, but you'll make lots
of money on each one.
http://www.audioadvisor.com
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRGRPC

Remember, the surest sign of success is pollution. Since the market
for antenna products are not yet totally polluted, I don't consider
the market to be anywhere near saturated or successful.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

As for snake oil, I don't consider giving the customer what they want
to be snake oil. If the market demands garrish, weird looking,
strange, camouflaged, and/or colorful antennas, it's not snake oil.
Several vendors have demonstrated that weird looking sells well. If
that's what the customer wants, I don't see a problem.

I'm thinking of pink dipoles for the YL Hamettes!


It's also possible to produce deluxe versions of common antennas. For
example, I suspect a gold plated antenna, with rare earth doping to
improve conductivity, and ceramic insulators made from clay found in
Area 51, to be sellable. It's not that far from what I read in the
audiophile catalogs, with their $500 power cords, wooden amplifier
boxes, glass turntables, and acoustic pretzel speaker enclosures. You
might not sell too many of these deluxe versions, but you'll make lots
of money on each one.
http://www.audioadvisor.com
http://www.audioadvisor.com/prodinfo.asp?number=CRGRPC

Of course, the manufacturer would have to live with themselves. I would
go as far as the goofy pink antenna I mentioned above. I don't think I
would have the lack of integrity to make the bogus claims made for stuff
like the Audiophile industry does. They have a distinct Carney/Rube
thing going on with their customers.

I got it!

My urine contains special compounds because of my consumption of
asparagus, chocolate and beer. This cause my urine to have special
properties that cause magnetic particles to increase their flux
concentration, giving increased power output, more brilliant lows and
Highs, and making for much less listening fatigue.

I will sell bottles of the miracle liquid for 1000 dollars per liter.
However, as everyone knows, ther eis nothing like freshness for the
important compounds, so for 25 thousand dollars plus air and food
expensies, I will come to visit and pee on your speakers......

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:03:30 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

I will sell bottles of the miracle liquid for 1000 dollars per liter.
However, as everyone knows, ther eis nothing like freshness for the
important compounds, so for 25 thousand dollars plus air and food
expensies, I will come to visit and pee on your speakers......
- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Sorry, but a similar product has already been invented and been on the
market for about 5 years:
http://j-walk.com/other/wifispray/

The ladyfriend would probably buy the pink antennas. She just bought
a pink bicycle. In disgust, I bought her pink garden tools and a
stuffed pink pig. That might also explain why I'm spending the
evening posting useless usenet drivel, instead of engaging in
debauchery. Anyway, pink is the "in" color, so I guess it's ok:
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+camouflage
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+products

At one time I was labelled an "effet commie liberal pinko swine" (or
something like that), but that was long ago.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:

...
Remember, the surest sign of success is pollution. Since the market
for antenna products are not yet totally polluted, I don't consider
the market to be anywhere near saturated or successful.

Jeff:

Sorry to have clipped your post so severely, however, anyone with a real
newsgroup reader has access to the original ...

You might be right, I was just expressing an opinion, one which is
impossible to justify ... :-)

Warm regards,
JS

Michael Coslo wrote:

...
My urine contains special compounds because of my consumption of
asparagus, chocolate and beer. This cause my urine to have special
properties that cause magnetic particles to increase their flux
concentration, giving increased power output, more brilliant lows and
Highs, and making for much less listening fatigue.
...
- 73 de Mike N3LI -

My gawd man! Finally, something which makes sense.

Say they hire you to disperse your urine beneath these antennas in
question, my gawd, ground conductivity, conductivity and factors would
off scale!

Let us see EZNEC take that into consideration!

ROFLOL!!!!

GOOD POST! wink

Regards,
JS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:03:30 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

I will sell bottles of the miracle liquid for 1000 dollars per liter.
However, as everyone knows, ther eis nothing like freshness for the
important compounds, so for 25 thousand dollars plus air and food
expensies, I will come to visit and pee on your speakers......
- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Sorry, but a similar product has already been invented and been on the
market for about 5 years:
http://j-walk.com/other/wifispray/

The ladyfriend would probably buy the pink antennas. She just bought
a pink bicycle. In disgust, I bought her pink garden tools and a
stuffed pink pig. That might also explain why I'm spending the
evening posting useless usenet drivel, instead of engaging in
debauchery. Anyway, pink is the "in" color, so I guess it's ok:
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+camouflage
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+products

At one time I was labelled an "effet commie liberal pinko swine" (or
something like that), but that was long ago.

In the outdoor sporting equipment trades (aka huntin/shootin/fishin) the
phrase is "pink it and shrink it"..

Michael Coslo wrote:

...
Self-arranging and self replication are actually easy enough to do that
the old definition of life that depends on that have been discarded for
much tighter definitions, Otherwise we would already be able to claim
that we created life.

As an example, lipids, or phospholipids, are a common substance (read
oils) that have the tendency to form into small bilayer spheres that
isolate the interior from the exterior world. Then what is needed is for
the right compounds to get trapped inside that sphere, and maybe
something interesting will happen.


http://blog.wired.com/wiredscience/2...npu=1&mbid=yhp



A immune system analog:


http://www.sandia.gov/media/NewsRel/NR2002/nanoarch.htm


Point is, these things are not some impossible to happen, "just so"
scheme. As time goes on, it looks more and more like on a planet capable
of sustaining life, life will happen.

Now if someone wanted to claim that some entity made that planet that
could support life, then these things happened - that is a different story.

- 73 de Mike N3LI -

You know, in your particular case, I have been too nice ...

Nothing yet, has been a human creation which even comes close to
mimicking a very lowly virus ...

You are an idiot, all your posts here have only described you sheer
idiot nature in exact detail ... you are loathsome, you are an absolute
idiot, you are something I pick off my shoe when walking my dog and not
paying adequate attention ...

Now, let those who find you different come to the aid of you ego ... I
wipe you off like the chit from my boot ...

Regards,
JS

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
. . .
At one point, I had illusions of designing and producing antennas.
It's an ideal product. Few people understand how they work. Antennas
tend to be surround by hype and are often close to magic. Testing is
difficult and expensive. Product comparisons are non-existent.
Religion and bias toward specific styles and manufacturers seem to be
the prime criteria for selection. The weirder it looks, the better it
sells. Aesthetic concerns have provided a whole new market. There
are already some rather dubious antenna products on the market. Etc.
In all, it's a perfectly acceptable small market waiting to be
exploited. Hopefully, my marketing and sales expertise will
adequately compensate for my marginal antenna design abilities. I had
plans to build the product line using the audiophile model, where
garish industrial design and endless ambiguous buzzwords have done
quite well. Due to health problems, I doubt that I'll do anything, so
it's all yours.

I suggest you stick with the amateur market, which pretty much fits your
description. There are other antenna customers, though, who depend
intensely on antenna performance for the operation and performance of
their products and missions. All my consulting clients, and a large
number of my professional software customers, are in this category. They
can't afford careless or substandard design, and simply won't tolerate it.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 01 Dec 2008 17:03:30 -0500, Michael Coslo
wrote:

I will sell bottles of the miracle liquid for 1000 dollars per liter.
However, as everyone knows, ther eis nothing like freshness for the
important compounds, so for 25 thousand dollars plus air and food
expensies, I will come to visit and pee on your speakers......
- 73 de Mike N3LI -

Sorry, but a similar product has already been invented and been on the
market for about 5 years:
http://j-walk.com/other/wifispray/

Oh dear, people have to look out for bogus products like that! My wizz
is the wonderful wizz, the wizz that was, becuz becuz becuz becuz......
becuz of the wonderful things it does....



The ladyfriend would probably buy the pink antennas. She just bought
a pink bicycle. In disgust, I bought her pink garden tools and a
stuffed pink pig. That might also explain why I'm spending the
evening posting useless usenet drivel, instead of engaging in
debauchery. Anyway, pink is the "in" color, so I guess it's ok:
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+camouflage
http://images.google.com/images?q=pink+products

Pink really does suck as a color. My mentor, Opus the penguin, said it
best. If a million people believe a wrong thing, it is still a wrong thing.


- 73 d eMike N3LI -

John Smith wrote:


You know, in your particular case, I have been too nice ...

Nothing yet, has been a human creation which even comes close to
mimicking a very lowly virus ...

And yet, if you are so sure, why do you not have the courage of your
convictions to say, "Man cannot and never ever will create such a thing
as a lowly virus.

Your sentence leaves open the possibility that man might create such a
thing tomorrow, next week, some time.


You are an idiot, all your posts here have only described you sheer
idiot nature in exact detail ... you are loathsome, you are an absolute
idiot, you are something I pick off my shoe when walking my dog and not
paying adequate attention ...

And oddly enough, that doesn't bother me much, or at all. Everyone is an
idiot in someone's book.

I gave you references, I give you a reasoned post, even gave you a part
in agreement that there is a possibility that some being being created
it all.

Your response is that I am fecal matter on your shoe. I am the idiot.


- 73 de Mike N3LI -