Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/9/2010 5:09 PM, tom wrote:

...
Actually it is not always summer somewhere. That's quite obvious. It is
only summer somewhere 6 months of the year, the other 6 it's spring and
fall.

tom
K0TAR


NO. But it is obvious you see the sun going between two hemispheres. I
see it oscillating through quadrants ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Sep 9, 7:46 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and
taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes
in
1845).
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years

older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*

ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging,

Earth rotate with the soup around the Sun (Sun's ether drag). No the Earth's
ether drag.

but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it.

Stokes ether not fail ANY test.

all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

The only one ether theory have failed. The solid dielectric ether. That
described by Heaviside:
http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Electr..._moving_charge

" It will be understood that I preach the gospel according to my
interpretation of Maxwell, and that any modification his theory of the
dielectric may receive may involve a fresh kind of propagation at present
not in question."

"All disturbances being propagated through the dielectric ether at the speed
of light,"

Now is like Cecil wrote: "Assuming the aether is the same thing as the
quantum soup, EM wave
propagation would not be possible without it. "

The next name is the "Interstllar Medium". The each soup must rotate with
the Sun because it is the Sun's product.

The soup is not the dilectric. It is plasma and as it is a conductor like
metals. Your radio waves propagate in the same manner in the metals and the
soup. They also propagate in a dilectrics as the displacement current.

But of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is because of
SR.
S*

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Aug 28, 3:32*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Aug 28, 1:06*pm, Art Unwin wrote:

One of the most perplexing aurguements in the history of Physics is
the supposed existence of the *Aether.

It has been proven that "empty space" is indeed not empty and consists
of quantum particles that wink in and out of existence. Aether does
exist as a sort of quantum soup, just not in the limited form that was
earlier conceived in the past before quantum physics. The Casimir
effect is a manifestation of the quantum soup that exists in "empty
space". Some physicists think that's where the dark energy is hiding.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Even if you remove the misc quantum particles empty space isnt
nothing. The problem most people have with their concept of the
universe is thinking of totally empty space as nothing. Space even
completely void of energy and various subatomic particles is still
something. We know that something can be altered so if you want to
call it Aether go ahead, a rose by any other name.....The present
title is usually space/time.

Jimmie

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/10/2010 4:42 AM, JIMMIE wrote:

...
call it Aether go ahead, a rose by any other name.....The present
title is usually space/time.

Jimmie

You touched on one major problem there, which throws most people off and
keeps them from being able to realize there is an ether, time. There is
no such thing as time which you can put in a bottle. There are no time
wells, there is no time flow, time is an imaginary concept.

Time is simply movement and distance conceptualized into a singular
"thing." No one has ever experienced time, they experience movement and
distance. No device has ever been created which can measure time or,
even, detect time. Our very best and most technical clock only measures
movement and distance, or loss of mass (movement of electrons away from
the main mass.)

If you have your mind locked into the space where it still
conceptualizes time as a real thing, it is going to be difficult to make
the jump in thinking to be able to conceptualize the ether. The ether
is what allows a concept like time to look real, a medium for things to
move through and required for anything we are seeing happening to occur in.

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 6:42*am, JIMMIE wrote:
Space even completely void of energy and various
subatomic particles is still something

Nope, it's not. Nothing that is completely devoid of energy/matter is
absolute nothing, i.e. zero volume and outside of the boundaries of
our universe, i.e. our space is a property of matter/energy. That
absolute nothing is what allows parallel universes to exist with zero
communications between them. The space contained by our universe is a
bubble caused by matter/energy. Outside that bubble is absolute
nothing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On 9/10/2010 3:13 PM, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 10, 6:42 am, wrote:
Space even completely void of energy and various
subatomic particles is still something

Nope, it's not. Nothing that is completely devoid of energy/matter is
absolute nothing, i.e. zero volume and outside of the boundaries of
our universe, i.e. our space is a property of matter/energy. That
absolute nothing is what allows parallel universes to exist with zero
communications between them. The space contained by our universe is a
bubble caused by matter/energy. Outside that bubble is absolute
nothing.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

I don't think so. We have nothing which can "touch" either, no "bottle"
we can hold some portion of it in ... and a soap bubble can't exist in a
vacuum ... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing." At the
very least, there would be yet another undiscovered media which supports
ether in the same manner with our ether supports our matter, and does
interact with ether ... but, that is only using logic.

I seen some news on the hadron collider ... they are moving up the time
frame when a lot of their predictions, on new particles, should be
found/proven ... I forgot to bookmark it. If I find it in the future I
will post it here ...

Regards,
JS

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 7:55*am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
*"K1TTT" ...
On Sep 9, 7:46 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:





"1925 - the Michelson-Gale-Pearson experiment produces a positive
result
while attempting to detect the effect of Earth's rotation on the
velocity
of light. The significance of the experiment remains debated to this
day, but
this planetary Sagnac effect is measured by ring laser gyros and
taken
into account by the GPS system."

The results of MMX and MGX prove the Stokes ether. "It rotates
with the Sun but not rotate with the Earth (it was predicted by Stokes
in
1845).
why don't you just go back to Opticks, thats only about 100 years

older than the almost 200 year old Stokes aether... you are still
going backwards dragging up old disproved theories.

Is GPS system 200 year old and disproved?
S*
ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the

corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging,

Earth rotate with the soup around the Sun (Sun's ether drag). No the Earth's
ether drag.

but that would cause many other effects

that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it.

Stokes ether not fail ANY test.

*all the aether theories

have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

The only one ether theory have failed. The solid dielectric ether. That
described by Heaviside:http://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Electr..._moving_charge

" It will be understood that I preach the gospel according to my
interpretation of Maxwell, and that any modification his theory of the
dielectric may receive may involve a fresh kind of propagation at present
not in question."

"All disturbances being propagated through the dielectric ether at the speed
of light,"

Now is like Cecil wrote: "Assuming the aether is the same thing as the
quantum soup, EM wave
propagation would not be possible without it. "

The next name is the "Interstllar Medium". The each soup must rotate with
the Sun because it is the Sun's product.

The soup is not the dilectric. It is plasma and as it is a conductor like
metals. Your radio waves propagate in the same manner in the metals and the
soup. They also propagate in a dilectrics as the displacement current.

But of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is because of
SR.
S*

no, sr is not necessary for propagation. and a dielectric is not
necessary for displacement current. nor is plasma necessary. you are
still very selective in your reading, a simple search shows that
stokes as well as all the other aether theories have been disproved
for nearly 100 years now.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 9, 10:55*pm, John Smith wrote:
On 9/9/2010 1:46 PM, K1TTT wrote:



ah, you think because they mention the gps system using the
corrections that were detected by the mgx experiment that there must
be an aether... but you are wrong, the gps system uses the
acceleration corrections predicted by special relativity that were
verified by the mgx experiment... there is no aether involved, it is
the acceleration caused by the rotating earth that causes the effect.
but of course you won't believe that and will insist that it is
because of aether dragging, but that would cause many other effects
that are NOT observed... in order for a theory to be right it must do
2 things, it must predict something that can be observed, and it must
not fail ANY test that would disprove it. *all the aether theories
have failed at least one test over the years and are therefore
incorrect.

What does the rotating earth accelerate? Light, RF? *The speed of light
is fixed within its' media, the ether, the only way to accelerate EM is
to accelerate the ether itself ...

The exact same arguments you state can be used as an argument for the
ether as well as SR ...

Regards,
JS

you obviously don't know the difference between speed and velocity and
how you can accelerate something without changing its speed. in any
case, if there were any kind of aether dragging or acceleration it
would cause shock or bow waves of compression in the aether at some
point that could be detected by variations in the speed of light in
different directions. this applies for earth dragging aether, or mr.
b's sun dragged aether.

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 10, 7:12*pm, John Smith wrote:
... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing" ...

That's exactly what I was trying to say. The quantum soup that we call
"empty space" within our bounded universe is not empty. Space within
our universe can never be absolutely empty and always contains at
least dark energy which comprises ~70% of our universe. It is
sometimes called zero-point energy, surrounds us, and allows us to
exist. From Wikipedia: "Zero-point energy is sometimes used as a
synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the
vacuum of empty space. When the term is used in this way, sometimes it
is referred to as the quantum vacuum zero point energy." Absolute-
nothing, i.e. less than zero-point energy, is the complete absence of
any type of matter and energy. Space cannot exist within absolute-
nothing which is what makes parallel universes possible. Instead of
asserting that space contains dark (zero-point) energy, it would be
more correct to to assert that space is the *result* of the pressure
of dark (zero-point) energy, i.e. the quantum vacuum that we call
"empty space" is *caused* by the existence of zero point energy left
over from the big bang - also responsible for the present expansion of
the universe.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

Recognition of the Aether presence or not
 

On Sep 11, 2:21*pm, Cecil Moore wrote:
On Sep 10, 7:12*pm, John Smith wrote:

*... I doubt if an either bubble can exist in "nothing" ...

That's exactly what I was trying to say. The quantum soup that we call
"empty space" within our bounded universe is not empty. Space within
our universe can never be absolutely empty and always contains at
least dark energy which comprises ~70% of our universe. It is
sometimes called zero-point energy, surrounds us, and allows us to
exist. From Wikipedia: "Zero-point energy is sometimes used as a
synonym for the vacuum energy, an amount of energy associated with the
vacuum of empty space. When the term is used in this way, sometimes it
is referred to as the quantum vacuum zero point energy." Absolute-
nothing, i.e. less than zero-point energy, is the complete absence of
any type of matter and energy. Space cannot exist within absolute-
nothing which is what makes parallel universes possible. Instead of
asserting that space contains dark (zero-point) energy, it would be
more correct to to assert that space is the *result* of the pressure
of dark (zero-point) energy, i.e. the quantum vacuum that we call
"empty space" is *caused* by the existence of zero point energy left
over from the big bang - also responsible for the present expansion of
the universe.
--
73, Cecil, w5dxp.com

has anyone linked zpe or 'quantum soup' or dark energy to
electromagnetic waves in a way that preserves the constancy of the
speed of light in all reference frames? or related those phenomena to
epsilon or mu of free space?