Sidebands
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Dec 31, 8:30 am, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Write: "electric wave equation" and you have 21 000 in 0.2 s.
Happy New Year.
S*

you have a poor search engine, i get 6M hits... and all of them are
either for 'electric field' or 'electromagnetic wave'. provide a
formula or specific reference.

Write: ("electric wave equation") and your search engine will be poor.

For EM waves: "Maxwell's contribution to science in producing these
equations lies in the correction he made to Ampère's circuital law in his
1861 paper On Physical Lines of Force. He added the displacement current
term to Ampère's circuital law and this enabled him to derive the
electromagnetic wave equation in his later 1865 paper A Dynamical Theory of
the Electromagnetic Field and demonstrate the fact that light is an
electromagnetic wave".

And:
"Heaviside worked to eliminate the potentials (electric potential and
magnetic potential) that Maxwell had used as the central concepts in his
equations;[21] this effort was somewhat controversial,[25] though it was
understood by 1884 that the potentials must propagate at the speed of light
like the fields, unlike the concept of instantaneous action-at-a-distance
like the then conception of gravitational potential.[22] Modern analysis of,
for example, radio antennas, makes full use of Maxwell's vector and scalar
potentials to separate the variables, a common technique used in formulating
the solutions of differential equations. However the potentials can be
introduced by algebraic manipulation of the four fundamental equations."

Electric waves are normal pressure waves. In place of pressure is the
voltage. In Heaviside's no voltage. But "However the potentials can be
introduced by algebraic manipulation of the four fundamental equations."

Nice manipulations.
S*

Sidebands
 

Electric waves are normal pressure waves. In place of pressure is the
voltage.

sorry, this is not correct. site a CURRENT source for this
statement. you did a good job quoting the proper relations between
potentials and fields, why not for 'electric waves'? if there are so
many good references that your search shows up there must be one that
provides a current good description of them.

In Heaviside's no voltage. But "However the potentials can be
introduced by algebraic manipulation of the four fundamental equations."

of course, potentials are not required, they are a figment of the
equations. what is required are the fields. the potentials, as you
quote:

Modern analysis of,
for example, radio antennas, makes full use of Maxwell's vector and scalar
potentials to separate the variables, a common technique used in formulating
the solutions of differential equations.

are just a 'technique' used to solve the equations, they are not the
result. there are many techniques like that used to solve
differential equations, they often introduce new variables that have
no physical meaning but are useful to simplify the equations leading
to a useful result. as you quoted above, even heaviside realized the
potentials and therefore the separate electric and magnetic 'waves'
were not necessary to the solution so he eliminated them. while this
may have provided a simpler representation of Maxwell's equations, it
did not change the results that they represented.

Sidebands
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...

Electric waves are normal pressure waves. In place of pressure is the
voltage.

sorry, this is not correct. site a CURRENT source for this
statement. you did a good job quoting the proper relations between
potentials and fields, why not for 'electric waves'? if there are so
many good references that your search shows up there must be one that
provides a current good description of them.

In Maxwell's time were math for the longitudinal waves. I am sure that were
such for electric waves also. But I am not interested in equations.
Maxwell did the math for the rotational oscillations. It is still in use in
engines area.

What Heaviside did I do not know because I do not understand in what way the
magnetic whirl appears around the wire.
It is only the piece to teach the math.

In Heaviside's no voltage. But "However the potentials can be
introduced by algebraic manipulation of the four fundamental equations."

of course, potentials are not required, they are a figment of the
equations. what is required are the fields. the potentials, as you
quote:

Modern analysis of,
for example, radio antennas, makes full use of Maxwell's vector and
scalar
potentials to separate the variables, a common technique used in
formulating
the solutions of differential equations.

are just a 'technique' used to solve the equations, they are not the
result. there are many techniques like that used to solve
differential equations, they often introduce new variables that have
no physical meaning but are useful to simplify the equations leading
to a useful result. as you quoted above, even heaviside realized the
potentials and therefore the separate electric and magnetic 'waves'
were not necessary to the solution so he eliminated them. while this
may have provided a simpler representation of Maxwell's equations, it
did not change the results that they represented.

The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the distance.
S*

Sidebands
 

The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the
distance.
S*


No, the topic that you asked about is do sidebands change with distance.

But, yes radio waves do experience Doppler shift, damped or otherwise!

Jeff

Sidebands
 

On Jan 1, 5:46*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In Maxwell's time were math for the longitudinal waves. I am sure that were
such for electric waves also. But I am not interested in equations.
Maxwell did the math for the rotational oscillations. It is still in use in
engines area.

of course there was, because they didn't know any better yet. all
those theories have been proven wrong and dropped 100 years ago. if
you want to talk waves you MUST use the equations, they are what
provides the description of the fields. Maxwell did math for lots of
things unrelated to electromagnetics, that was a very interesting
time.



What Heaviside did I do not know because I do not understand in what way the
magnetic whirl appears around the wire.
It is only the piece to teach the math.

if you don't know then why quote him?


The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the distance.
S*

no, damped waves do not exhibit redshift with distance, unless of
course they are from a distant galaxy that is moving away from us
rapidly!

Sidebands
 

"Jeff" wrote ...

The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the
distance.
S*

No, the topic that you asked about is do sidebands change with distance.

One sideband is "redshifted" and the second "blueshifted". AM waves have the
increasing/decreasing amplitudes. The damped also but there no symmetry.
Were the sidebands symmetric at the damped waves?

But, yes radio waves do experience Doppler shift, damped or otherwise!

It is not distance dependent.
S*

Sidebands
 

Szczepan Bialek wrote:


One sideband is "redshifted" and the second "blueshifted". AM waves have the
increasing/decreasing amplitudes. The damped also but there no symmetry.
Were the sidebands symmetric at the damped waves?

Meaningless word salad gibberish.

Seek medical help.


--
Jim Pennino

Remove .spam.sux to reply.

Sidebands
 

Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w wiadomosci
...
On Jan 1, 5:46 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In Maxwell's time were math for the longitudinal waves. I am sure that
were
such for electric waves also. But I am not interested in equations.
Maxwell did the math for the rotational oscillations. It is still in use
in
engines area.

of course there was, because they didn't know any better yet. all
those theories have been proven wrong and dropped 100 years ago. if
you want to talk waves you MUST use the equations, they are what
provides the description of the fields.

Seperate "electric field", "magnetic field", gravity field" are for kids.

Charged body at rest produces the electric field but a moving body do not
produce the electric field but magnetic.
Do you understand it?

Maxwell did math for lots of
things unrelated to electromagnetics, that was a very interesting
time.

Eg. 60 pages of equations for Saturn's rings.

What Heaviside did I do not know because I do not understand in what way
the
magnetic whirl appears around the wire.
It is only the piece to teach the math.

if you don't know then why quote him?

The citations were from Maxwell's papers and Wiki.

The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the
distance.
S*

no, damped waves do not exhibit redshift with distance, unless of
course they are from a distant galaxy that is moving away from us
rapidly!

Wiki wrote: "They initially interpreted these redshifts and blue shifts as
due solely to the Doppler effect, but later Hubble discovered a rough
correlation between the increasing redshifts and the increasing distance of
galaxies. Theorists almost immediately realized that these observations
could be explained by a different mechanism for producing redshifts.
Hubble's law of the correlation between redshifts and distances is required
by models of cosmology derived from general relativity that have a metric
expansion of space.[16] As a result, photons propagating through the
expanding space are stretched, creating the cosmological redshift."

Photons are stretched with the distance.
Damped waves are like photons.
S*

Sidebands
 

On Jan 2, 5:48*pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:
Uzytkownik "K1TTT" napisal w ...
On Jan 1, 5:46 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

In Maxwell's time were math for the longitudinal waves. I am sure that
were
such for electric waves also. But I am not interested in equations.
Maxwell did the math for the rotational oscillations. It is still in use
in
engines area.
of course there was, because they didn't know any better yet. *all

those theories have been proven wrong and dropped 100 years ago. *if
you want to talk waves you MUST use the equations, they are what
provides the description of the fields.

Seperate "electric field", "magnetic field", gravity field" are for kids.

of course, that is why you haven't learned enough to understand them
that way yet, you are below kids in understanding fields.



Charged body at rest produces the electric field but a moving body do not
produce the electric field but magnetic.
Do you understand it?

do you understand that the electric field from a charged body at rest
does not propagate, it is static everywhere so there are no waves.

but what about if the body is at rest in one inertial frame and you
are moving past it in another one, do you see a magnetic field or
not?


Maxwell did math for lots of

things unrelated to electromagnetics, that was a very interesting
time.

Eg. 60 pages of equations for Saturn's rings.



What Heaviside did I do not know because I do not understand in what way
the
magnetic whirl appears around the wire.
It is only the piece to teach the math.
if you don't know then why quote him?

The citations were from Maxwell's papers and Wiki.

The topic is if the damped radio waves exhibit "redshift" with the
distance.
S*
no, damped waves do not exhibit redshift with distance, unless of

course they are from a distant galaxy that is moving away from us
rapidly!

Wiki wrote: "They initially interpreted these redshifts and blue shifts as

due solely to the Doppler effect, but later Hubble discovered a rough
correlation between the increasing redshifts and the increasing distance of
galaxies. Theorists almost immediately realized that these observations
could be explained by a different mechanism for producing redshifts.
Hubble's law of the correlation between redshifts and distances is required
by models of cosmology derived from general relativity that have a metric
expansion of space.[16] As a result, photons propagating through the
expanding space are stretched, creating the cosmological redshift."

Photons are stretched with the distance.
Damped waves are like photons.
S*

now that is a good laugh... stretching photons would be quite a trick
since they don't exist in Maxwell's equations. damped waves may be
made of many photons, but they are not 'like' photons... they are just
another set of em waves propagating along just like any other.

Sidebands
 

"K1TTT" wrote
...
On Jan 2, 5:48 pm, "Szczepan Bialek" wrote:

Seperate "electric field", "magnetic field", gravity field" are for kids.

of course, that is why you haven't learned enough to understand them
that way yet, you are below kids in understanding fields.

The only trouble for kids to remembe are the "hand rules".
Kids do not try to understand. They must remember.
Good memeory is most important in schools.


Charged body at rest produces the electric field but a moving body do not
produce the electric field but magnetic.
Do you understand it?

do you understand that the electric field from a charged body at rest
does not propagate, it is static everywhere so there are no waves.

But in antennas charge appears and disappears. Electric waves must appear.
Some Authors call them electrostatic waves.

but what about if the body is at rest in one inertial frame and you
are moving past it in another one, do you see a magnetic field or
not?

No. No magnetic charge and no magnetic field.


Wiki wrote: "They initially interpreted these redshifts and blue shifts
as
due solely to the Doppler effect, but later Hubble discovered a rough
correlation between the increasing redshifts and the increasing distance
of
galaxies. Theorists almost immediately realized that these observations
could be explained by a different mechanism for producing redshifts.
Hubble's law of the correlation between redshifts and distances is
required
by models of cosmology derived from general relativity that have a metric
expansion of space.[16] As a result, photons propagating through the
expanding space are stretched, creating the cosmological redshift."

Photons are stretched with the distance.
Damped waves are like photons.
S*

now that is a good laugh... stretching photons would be quite a trick
since they don't exist in Maxwell's equations. damped waves may be
made of many photons, but they are not 'like' photons... they are just
another set of em waves propagating along just like any other.

With the decreased amplitudes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Ondes_amorties.jpg
S*