Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html

Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."

then

Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
is for MoCA, not just cable TV.


MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
"drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
within their home, and use services like Netflix & Hulu on their TV
sets.


It is the modern cable TV, like it or not. Companies not playing will
likely be packing some day. Personally I doubt it'll do much for home
networking, at least not appliance control. Computing, yes, and that's
the new game in town. Cable companies offering "all-in-one" packages
where you get phone, Internet, TV and all that from the "company store".
Pretty pricey, last time I looked it was $99/mo and that only for the
first year. Probably goes up afterwards.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.


Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong. You are wrong and it's eating you alive. Even the title of the
article in your link states: "Testing And Deployment: Making MoCA
In-Home Networking Easier" and the article starts with: "Market growth
and competition for enhanced video services revenue have MSOs and telcos
scrambling for technology and operational advantages. In the next
decade, consumer electronics with embedded Internet and IP video support
will be widely available." No where does it mention a cable drop. It
is a method to transmit digital data between a DVR and any TV connected
to the system. Nothing more. It's no wonder you can't get a computer
to run properly, when you can't even read a simple networking article
like this and understand it.


Show me anywhere in that article that states a 300 foot cable TV drop
is required. The word drop shows up twice and the first is part of
another word:


1: "Additionally, the technician can monitor the MoCA channel for
bit errors based on corrected or dropped MoCA packets."
^^^^

2: "A drop amplifier that does not bypass the MoCA spectrum."
^^^^
This means that some installations require a bi-directional amplifier
to compensate for long drops just as they always have. 'Drop Amplifier'
refers to a single output CATV amplifier as opposed to the multiport
CATV distribution amplifiers used in apartment complexes and condos.


Companies not playing will likely be packing some day.


Maybe in 30 years, when tiny rural systems can't find anything
cheaper on the market and upgrade in bits and pieces. YOU know all
about being a cheapskate.


Personally I doubt it'll do much for home networking, at least
least not appliance control.


Why should it? Why would your DVR need to talk to your
refrigerator? It is strictly a streaming system for home
Entertainment. It's been available here, for years. Hell, even my
dad's Direct TV sat system w/DVR does it. Appliances don't need a TV
tuner and other crap for a simple ethernet interface.


Computing, yes, and that's the new game in town. Cable companies
offering "all-in-one" packages where you get phone, Internet, TV
and all that from the "company store".


Phone and internet are delivered via a cable modem that works to -15
dBmv.


Pretty pricey, last time I looked it was $99/mo and that only for the
first year. Probably goes up afterwards.


It goes a hell of a lot higher than that. That $99 doesn't get you
basic cable, internet and phone here. Add on more tiers and hgher
bandwith internet and it can pass $250 a month.


You are so ignorant that it's scary. Read ALL of the page you linked
to and look at the images. It is a lousy home network via coax
streaming media standard and nothing more. Not that I ever expect you
to be man enough to admit you are wrong. Everything is always someone
else's fault. No one ever does anything right but you. The fact that
you design medical electronics scares the hell out of me.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.


Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.


Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?

[...]

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.


Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.


Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?

The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.

zzzzzzzzzz wrote:
On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.

Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.

Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?

The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.


:-)

But it's everywhere. Here is an example from South Carolina about what
happens when a company wants to push through a sub-par 125ft and the
city insists state-of-the-art 300ft:

http://www.redorbit.com/news/technol...any_agreement/

They threatened to not renew the franchise. And this was six years ago.

--
Regards, Joerg

http://www.analogconsultants.com/

" wrote:

On Sun, 12 Feb 2012 13:54:36 -0800, Joerg wrote:

Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Joerg wrote:
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
? Joerg wrote:
?? http://www.cablefax.com/ct/sections/...ier_44237.html
??
?? Quote "The Multimedia Over Coax Alliance (MoCA) provides a standard ..."
??
?? then
??
?? Quote "The maximum cable distance supported between the root and the
?? last outlet is 300 feet, with a maximum attenuation of 25 dB". And this
?? is for MoCA, not just cable TV.
?
?
? MoCA is home networking, hence the 300 foot figure. A drop at +10
? dBmv already allows a 25 dB loss for the cable modem, since they are
? designed to work to -15 dBmv. That webpage also mentions verifing that a
? "drop amplifier does not block Moca". In other words, it's home
? networking for multimedia devices and has nothing to do with the length
? of the cable drop. It is to allow customers to stream audio and video
? within their home, and use services like Netflix ? Hulu on their TV
? sets.
?

It is the modern cable TV, like it or not.


Sigh. You never back down, even when you are shown that you are
wrong.


Because I am not.

http://publicservice.vermont.gov/con...rts_cable.html

Quote "If its under 300 feet, its free to the consumer".

Yes, it is as simple as that. You are within 300ft and the cable company
must serve you. This is state-of-the-art. Now you'll probably declare
the whole State of Vermont to be wrong?

The whole state? Na, there's probably three sane people left.


The FCC says the requirement is 100 feet in CFR 47-46.606, section
three, quoted below:
---
(3) The visual signal level, across a terminating impedance which
correctly matches the internal impedance of the cable system as viewed
from the subscriber terminal, shall not be less than 1 millivolt across
an internal impedance of 75 ohms (0 dBmV). Additionally, as measured at
the end of a 30 meter (100 foot) cable drop that is connected to the
subscriber tap, it shall not be less than 1.41 millivolts across an
internal impedance of 75 ohms (+3 dBmV). (At other impedance values, the
minimum visual signal level, as viewed from the subscriber terminal,
shall be the square root of 0.0133 (Z) millivolts and, as measured at
the end of a 30 meter (100 foot) cable drop that is connected to the
subscriber tap, shall be 2 times the square root of 0.00662(Z)
millivolts, where Z is the appropriate impedance value.)
---


That mess in Vermont involves Adelphia cable, and the settlement of a
huge fraud lawsuit. They agreed to build to a minimum of 14 homes per
mile, when the industry usually stops at 35-40 homes per mile as ever
paying back the construction costs. Vermont had them by the balls, if
they wanted to renew their franchisee. Adelphia is also heavily invested
in FIOS.


The other franchises I looked at only had a 300 foot limit if it was
Fiber to the structure, which doesn't have the roll off and insertion
loss of coax.

Here is a typical RG6 from Belden:

Freq. (MHz) Attenuation (dB/100 ft.)
5 .67
55 1.60
211 2.87
270 3.24
300 3.43
350 3.72
400 4.00
450 4.26
550 4.71
750 5.59
870 6.00
1000 6.54

This shows the loss at 12.78 dB at 450 MHz which would be a very old
system.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.