"Rob" napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
If it were true, an antenna
would be a nonlinear element that would cause intermodulation. As we
don't see that happen on a well-designed antenna (it *does* happen
when
there are bad contacts with diode-effect in the antenna), we know that
an antenna by itself cannot be nonlinear and so there cannot be a net
flow of electrons.

The net flow of electrons is from the counterpoise to end of antenna.
S*

How do you explain that there is no intermodulation as a result of
the nonlinearity of the antenna that you claim?

I am here to learn.

Please don't wander off the subject and answer the question!
You did not answer the question why there is no intermodulation
in a transmitter antenna, while you claim it is nonlinear.

All is linear in the textbooks (necesary simplification).
In reality all is nonlinear.

Lately I have learn from Bilou:
"In such cases it is convenient to put the things to their limits.
Imagine the diameter of one half is infinite.
You now have a quarter wave over a ground plane.A well known case."

It means that a dipole fed from a coax is the monopole (a quarter wave)
with
the counterpoise.

"In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is
substituted for a buried network of wires. A counterpoise is a network of
wires place above the earth a slight distance and insulated from it, so
arranged to produce a very high capacity to the earth."

So I know now why you all claim that a dipole do not need a ground.

Because a dipole does not need a ground, it is a symmetric antenna which
is not driven relative to ground.

Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to
the shield of a coax?

The number of radials is the power dependent. More power radiated more
electrons must be taken from a ground.
Do you agree?
S*

No.

For what are sometime the 120 radials?
S*

napisa³ w wiadomo¶ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I am here to learn.

It means that a dipole fed from a coax is the monopole (a quarter wave)
with
the counterpoise.

No, it doesn not mean that.

"In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is
substituted for a buried network of wires. A counterpoise is a network of
wires place above the earth a slight distance and insulated from it, so
arranged to produce a very high capacity to the earth."


Radials are only required for an end fed monopole.

The number of radial required is dependant on the ground conductivity and
totally independant of power.

""In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is substituted for a buried network of wires".

The number of buried radials or that above ground (counterpoise) is power
dependent.
S*

Szczepan Bialek wrote:
Please don't wander off the subject and answer the question!
You did not answer the question why there is no intermodulation
in a transmitter antenna, while you claim it is nonlinear.

All is linear in the textbooks (necesary simplification).
In reality all is nonlinear.

So you think the electron emission from your transmitter antenna is
something not in the textbooks but still happening in reality?

Because a dipole does not need a ground, it is a symmetric antenna which
is not driven relative to ground.

Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to
the shield of a coax?

That is not a correct way to feed a dipole!
There must be a balun between the coax and the dipole.

The number of radials is the power dependent. More power radiated more
electrons must be taken from a ground.
Do you agree?
S*

No.

For what are sometime the 120 radials?
S*

To provide a return for the HF current being fed into an unbalanced
vertical. Not to provide electrons to be emitted.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Rob" napisa3 w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:
If it were true, an antenna
would be a nonlinear element that would cause intermodulation. As we
don't see that happen on a well-designed antenna (it *does* happen
when
there are bad contacts with diode-effect in the antenna), we know that
an antenna by itself cannot be nonlinear and so there cannot be a net
flow of electrons.

The net flow of electrons is from the counterpoise to end of antenna.
S*

How do you explain that there is no intermodulation as a result of
the nonlinearity of the antenna that you claim?

I am here to learn.

Please don't wander off the subject and answer the question!
You did not answer the question why there is no intermodulation
in a transmitter antenna, while you claim it is nonlinear.

All is linear in the textbooks (necesary simplification).
In reality all is nonlinear.

This is meaningless babble.

While lower level, i.e. grade school textbooks, may contain simplifications,
university level textbooks do not.

I would bet heavily that you have never read any textbook beyond the grade
school level.


Lately I have learn from Bilou:
"In such cases it is convenient to put the things to their limits.
Imagine the diameter of one half is infinite.
You now have a quarter wave over a ground plane.A well known case."

It means that a dipole fed from a coax is the monopole (a quarter wave)
with
the counterpoise.

"In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is
substituted for a buried network of wires. A counterpoise is a network of
wires place above the earth a slight distance and insulated from it, so
arranged to produce a very high capacity to the earth."

So I know now why you all claim that a dipole do not need a ground.

Because a dipole does not need a ground, it is a symmetric antenna which
is not driven relative to ground.

Do you mean the antenna with the two legs where the one leg is connected to
the shield of a coax?

There is nothing that requires a dipole to be connected to coax.

In fact many dipoles are connected to balanced line all the way to the
transmitter.

Those that are connected with coax usually have device between the coax
and the dipole to convert from unbalance to balanced.

Again you show you know nothing about antennas or the real world.


The number of radials is the power dependent. More power radiated more
electrons must be taken from a ground.
Do you agree?
S*

No.

For what are sometime the 120 radials?
S*

One more time, the number of radials needed for good perfomance for an end
fed monopole, and ONLY an end fed monopole, depends ONLY on the ground
conductivity.

Dipoles do NOT need radials.

Yagis do NOT need radials.

Loops do not need radials.

Slots do not need radials.

Horns do not need radials.

Rhombics do not need radials.

Stermba curtains do not need radials.

Log-periodics do not need radials.

Helicals do not need radials.

Only end fed monopoles need radials.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

"Ian" napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

The number of radials is the power dependent. More power radiated more
electrons must be taken from a ground.
Do you agree?
S*
Good morning Szczepan.
Here are two questions for you to ponder:
How many radials are needed for a receiving aerial?

It is power dependent.

No, it is not, it is ground conductivity dependant and has nothing to do
with power and they are ONLY needed for end fed monopoles.

Are liquids massless?

Ask Heaviside.

Heaviside has been dead for 87 years, but he did live long enough to
learn that there is no such thing as a massless liquid.

You will never live long enough to understand that.

Here is something to learn - the monopole and dipole are two different
aerials.

I did:
"The dipole antenna, which is the basis for most antenna designs, is a
balanced component, with equal but opposite voltages and currents applied at
its two terminals through a balanced transmission line (or to a coaxial
transmission line through a so-called balun)."

OK so far.

The dipole antenna is the two monopoles.

Now you are starting to drift off into la-la land again.

" The vertical antenna, on the other hand, is a monopole antenna. It is
typically connected to the inner conductor of a coaxial transmission line
(or a matching network); the shield of the transmission line is connected to
ground."

OK again.

If the antenna has the two legs and the one leg is connected to the shield
of the coax we have the monopole.

No, you do not.

You glossed right over the part in your own qoute that says: "or to a coaxial
transmission line through a so-called balun".

"In this way, the ground (or any large conductive surface) plays the role of
the second conductor of a dipole, thereby forming a complete circuit.[3]
Since monopole antennas rely on a conductive ground, a so-called grounding
structure may be employed to provide a better ground contact to the earth or
which itself acts as a ground plane to perform that function regardless of
(or in absence of) an actual contact with the earth." From:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antenna_(radio)

And again, you don't get it.

The above quote is talking about end fed monopoles and ONLY end fed
monopoles and has NOTHING to do with dipoles.


So: " It means that a dipole fed from a coax is the monopole (a quarter
wave) with the counterpoise." is right.
Do you agree?

No.

Once again you show you are incapable of reading and understanding your
own quotes.

Channel Jumper wrote:

"Sal M. O'Nella[_2_ Wrote:
;792869"]"Ian" wrote in message
..

snip
-
Wonder what would happen if he plugged his computer into a DC supply
rather than an AC supply?
73, Ian.-

He's be a bother to the fire department, not us.

The voltages inside of the computer is DC / not AC.

If he removed the power supply - it would still work on battery power.

For a laptop, but not for a computer in general unless you mean a bunch
of batteries for all the various voltages.

Szczepan Bialek wrote:

napisa? w wiadomo?ci
...
Szczepan Bialek wrote:

I am here to learn.

It means that a dipole fed from a coax is the monopole (a quarter wave)
with
the counterpoise.

No, it doesn not mean that.

"In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is
substituted for a buried network of wires. A counterpoise is a network of
wires place above the earth a slight distance and insulated from it, so
arranged to produce a very high capacity to the earth."


Radials are only required for an end fed monopole.

The number of radial required is dependant on the ground conductivity and
totally independant of power.

""In the case of very rocky or poorly conducting soil a counterpoise often
is substituted for a buried network of wires".

OK so far for an end fed monopole and only for an end fed monopole.

The number of buried radials or that above ground (counterpoise) is power
dependent.

No, it is not, the number of radial required is dependant on the ground
conductivity and totally independant of power.

There are hundreds of studies that show you are an utter idiot.

"Szczepan Bialek" wrote in message
.. .

The number of buried radials or that above ground (counterpoise) is power
dependent.
S*

An amusing guess and totally wrong.
What happens when the aerial is used with a receive-only station?

Ian.

On 7/4/2012 11:15 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:

Joel dipole has the two legs.
One of them is the antenna and the second the counterpoise.


Tell us which is which. Without your usual nonsense.

I know I'm asking the impossible here, but maybe just this once you
could answer a question clearly and directly.

And lipsticked pigs may fly at light speed.

tom
K0TAR

On 7/5/2012 2:41 AM, Szczepan Bialek wrote:


I am here to learn.

A statement with less truth would be hard to find. You are most
definitely NOT here to learn.

tom
K0TAR