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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask.
The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? TIA |
#2
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? TIA The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States, it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all) routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K. Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an attic? -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
#3
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On 27/04/2015 21:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote:
On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote: Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? TIA The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States, it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all) routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K. Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an attic? Not to sure on legal side in the UK, I presume it's ok in the US as i have seen this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXbWV1vsco and that has external sockets built in, so i presume law is fine with it in the US. I am on the top floor of a 2 story block and have access to a T&K bracket and about a 15-20 foot pole, so height should not be an issue, but before i went to the hassle of getting someone in to mount it (i can't due to disability) I want to make sure it can be done and buy the right equipment. Jim |
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On 4/27/2015 5:52 PM, Jim wrote:
On 27/04/2015 21:58, Jerry Stuckle wrote: On 4/27/2015 4:28 PM, Jim wrote: Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? TIA The first thing you need to do is check the law. In the United States, it would be illegal to add an external antenna to most (if not all) routers. I don't know if the same situation exists in the U.K. Would it be possible for you to place it somewhere high, like in an attic? Not to sure on legal side in the UK, I presume it's ok in the US as i have seen this video on youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yXbWV1vsco and that has external sockets built in, so i presume law is fine with it in the US. Don't be on it. Just because you see it on the Internet does not mean it's legal. There is a lot of illegal Chinese crap being sold to unsuspecting Americans. In fact, just a few months ago, a Chinese company ways fined several million dollars for selling illegal equipment in the U.S. Also, just because one piece of equipment is legal for an external antenna does NOT mean another piece also is legal. And even if it is legal in the U.S., the U.K. has an entirely different set of laws. What is legal in one country may or may not be in the other. I am on the top floor of a 2 story block and have access to a T&K bracket and about a 15-20 foot pole, so height should not be an issue, but before i went to the hassle of getting someone in to mount it (i can't due to disability) I want to make sure it can be done and buy the right equipment. Jim No, I am saying mount the modem in the attic, not an external antenna. Before you get a big fine from OFCOM I would recommend you check the legality. I suspect you will find what you want to do is NOT legal - which is why your modem does not have an external antenna jack. -- ================== Remove the "x" from my email address Jerry, AI0K ================== |
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On 27/04/15 21:28, Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? TIA I use one on my mobilehome (RV for our US readers) with my Huawi MiFi 4G/3G. The whip is mounted on a Panorama base (from a PMR whip) on the luggage rack (specifically fitted to mount antennas) and the cable run into the habitation area. A short adaptor lead goes from the BNC to the proper connector for the MiFi (I can't recall the type, TS9?). I generally gain several 'bars' on the 'S meter' on the setup page. Previously I used one of the tiny antennas of Ebay sitting on the roof with a 3G Mifi, it gave a useful increase in performance (unusable outside the motorhome without the antenna to reliable inside with it). I replaced it as I wanted a fixed set up which would work when driving (not for the driver!). |
#7
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
Jim wrote:
Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? I did the same for a friend using a Huawei E169 USB dongle with an external antenna socket. She lived in a basement and had no signal on her cell phone. The best results we go was with "15dBi GSM/3G/UMTS panel antenna with extension cable 5m + RP-SMA female to CRC9" from eBay, for about $50 including postage. You can buy LTE (4G) dongles from eBay with external antenna sockets. Just make sure they support the bands used in London, the antenna matches the bands, and the connector on the cable matches the dongle. This does require a computer to be used as a router, or a MiFi which has a USB socket for you to provide your own dongle. The other (probably cheaper) option is to find a cheap smartphone with an antenna socket and use wifi tethering. Or if it is just a problem with your home and holding the phone up to the window works, get a roll of duct tape. :-) Geoff. -- Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM/KBUH7245/KBUW5379 |
#8
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:28:36 +0100, Jim
wrote: Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. I'm bored. OT will have to suffice. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? I once did some experiments with cell phone antenna couplers. Phones were arriving which did not have a projecting antenna or any easy method of attaching an external antenna. The trick was to design a phone base that included some kind of coupler that did not require any connection or modification to the phone (or the FCC would reject it for type certification). The initial design was for 1900 Mhz only, but later mutations covered both 800 and 1900. In Europe, that would be 1800 and 900 MHz. I tried patch, loop, resonant loop, slot, cavity backed resonator, along with various reflectors. All of them were lossy. In the near field, all acted more like capacitors and xformers than antennas. So, the executive decision was to use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest, which was the loop. Second best was a 1/2 dipole, which was problematic due to its length. I don't know what frequency your Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN operates on 4G: http://www.gemtek.com.tw/pro_LTE_WLTFSR.htm but when you find out, just cut a length of wire 1 wavelength long, make a loop in almost any shape, and place it as close to the internal antenna as possible. The impedance will be about 100 ohms, so use 75 ohm CATV coax (RG-6/u) to the antenna. Never mind the mismatch at both the antenna and the loop. It's not worth the hassle matching it. You'll need to move the loop around the case to find the best pickup point. When you find it, tape it in place. I'm not sure what to recommend for the outside antenna. Much depends on the frequency of operation. In the US, most of the 4G stuff is moving to 700 MHz, leaving 800/1900 for voice and 3G data. Therefore, a single band 700 MHz antenna would be required for the US. No clue for the UK (and I'm too lazy to look it up). If it is single band, a simple patch antenna will get you about 8dBi gain. If you want more, look into yagi, corner reflector, or dish antennas. I'm partial to AMOS/Franklin antennas, but if your UK 4G system uses polarization based spatial diversity for MIMO, a single linear polarized antenna will limit your maximum download speed. This is probably more than you want to deal with, so I suggest starting with a simple 1/2 wave dipole and escalate as needed. Good luck. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
#9
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On 29/04/2015 23:34, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Mon, 27 Apr 2015 21:28:36 +0100, Jim wrote: Firstly sorry if this is OT guys but you do seem the best people to ask. I'm bored. OT will have to suffice. The part of London I live in has rubbish ISP speeds (4 mbit) and I have been offered an old Relish.net router which is a Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN, I know some of these have external aerial sockets (US ones I think) but the version I will get does not have any external sockets, so it's a case of go inside and try to figure out some way of connecting an external aerial, now the reason I need an external one is I am right on the edge of their coverage and only get a single bar using just the router, I do have some images of the inside of the router so I will post the links for them later, but I was just wondering if anyone has heard of this being done in the UK? I once did some experiments with cell phone antenna couplers. Phones were arriving which did not have a projecting antenna or any easy method of attaching an external antenna. The trick was to design a phone base that included some kind of coupler that did not require any connection or modification to the phone (or the FCC would reject it for type certification). The initial design was for 1900 Mhz only, but later mutations covered both 800 and 1900. In Europe, that would be 1800 and 900 MHz. I tried patch, loop, resonant loop, slot, cavity backed resonator, along with various reflectors. All of them were lossy. In the near field, all acted more like capacitors and xformers than antennas. So, the executive decision was to use the simplest, easiest, and cheapest, which was the loop. Second best was a 1/2 dipole, which was problematic due to its length. I don't know what frequency your Gemtek WLTFSR-115GN operates on 4G: http://www.gemtek.com.tw/pro_LTE_WLTFSR.htm but when you find out, just cut a length of wire 1 wavelength long, make a loop in almost any shape, and place it as close to the internal antenna as possible. The impedance will be about 100 ohms, so use 75 ohm CATV coax (RG-6/u) to the antenna. Never mind the mismatch at both the antenna and the loop. It's not worth the hassle matching it. You'll need to move the loop around the case to find the best pickup point. When you find it, tape it in place. I'm not sure what to recommend for the outside antenna. Much depends on the frequency of operation. In the US, most of the 4G stuff is moving to 700 MHz, leaving 800/1900 for voice and 3G data. Therefore, a single band 700 MHz antenna would be required for the US. No clue for the UK (and I'm too lazy to look it up). If it is single band, a simple patch antenna will get you about 8dBi gain. If you want more, look into yagi, corner reflector, or dish antennas. I'm partial to AMOS/Franklin antennas, but if your UK 4G system uses polarization based spatial diversity for MIMO, a single linear polarized antenna will limit your maximum download speed. This is probably more than you want to deal with, so I suggest starting with a simple 1/2 wave dipole and escalate as needed. Good luck. Thanks for the reply, I have been looking into it a bit more and it seems they use 124Mhz in the LTE bands of 43 and 43 which is about 3.5GHz and 3.6GHz |
#10
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External aerial for 4G+ (LTE Advanced) [Relish.net] Router
On Thu, 30 Apr 2015 00:44:19 +0100, Jim
wrote: Thanks for the reply, I have been looking into it a bit more and it seems they use 124Mhz in the LTE bands of 43 and 43 which is about 3.5GHz and 3.6GHz http://www.ukbroadband.com/4g-networks http://www.ukbroadband.com/relish https://www1.relish.net You're right. 3500/3700 MHz. I don't think you'll find a commercial antenna that covers that range. You'll probably end up building something. -- Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558 |
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