Hi all.

I bought a house built in 2007 a few months ago. It has underground phone and power lines. The house is 650 ft from the road. I tried to have cable installed, and the installer verified that I do not have a cable line that runs to my house. Upon further inspection, I located an empty conduit at the house and an empty conduit at the street. Both have string lines for pulling in them. I've tried pulling the lines but they are stuck.

Charter communications agreed to have a company come out and inspect the line and flush it out of it was blocked. Unfortunately they ran into a problem. They pressurized both sides of the conduit to 350psi and there is no air leak.

Halfway between the house and street there is a power box and telephone tower junction box. The cable contractors seem to think that there must be a junction fortune empty conduit in the vicinity of the power / telephone boxes. They are about 325 ft from the house and street. They told me I need to locate the junction myself before they can run a cable line.

I have not been able to figure out a way to locate the junction myself. No rental company has a snake longer than 100ft and to hire a company to come out and run a jet line (recommended by the contractor) would cost $1,200.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to locate the underground junction? Im at a loss, without cable and wifi. My two little boys don't have Mickey Mouse Clubhouse anymore and they are bugging me hahaha. Thank you in advance for the ideas folks!

-Lost dad in CT. Aka Joe

On Sun, 25 Oct 2015 19:30:25 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

Halfway between the house and street there is a power box and telephone tower junction box.
The cable contractors seem to think that there must be a junction fortune empty
conduit in the vicinity of the power / telephone boxes. They are about 325 ft
from the house and street. They told me I need to locate the junction myself
before they can run a cable line.

Local code probably won't allow the cable company to run coax cable
inside the power conduit, so that's out. It's likely that there's one
pull box every 100-150ft or so. The distance varies depending on the
age of the system and local code.

Step one is to go until the local planning department and see if they
have permit applications and plans for your house.

It's likely that the two conduits parallel each other for the entire
length. If you can inject a signal/tone into the power line, you can
follow it around the property. The signal conduit will be fairly
close and parallel.

I've used a stethoscope and an air compressor on lines where a snake
isn't possible. Blow compressed air in one end and you can hear the
sounds of any leaks along the line. Any exit points, such as pull
boxes will be obvious. Don't pressurize the conduit or you'll blow
the lid off a pull box and let water in. It doesn't work under hard
pack dirt, concrete, deep conduit, or next to noisy roads, but it's
quick and easy. If you want to get fancy, two microphones going to
separate oscilloscope inputs. The ratio of the delays will mark the
relative position of the conduit. If you can't hear the air leaks,
make a whistle from a piece of PVC pipe and shove that into the
conduit.
https://www.google.com/#q=pvc+pipe+whistle
http://www.instructables.com/id/Simple-PVC-Whistle/ (see step 4)

Get the kids involved. I think they'll find it interesting.





--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

Hi Jeff thank you for the response!

I guess I should try to clarify a little more about the situation. Lol

The conduit on both ends have been pressurized to 350 psi and held the pressure for over 10 minutes. That would means to me that there are no leaks unfortunately.

Where can I find a radio transmitter that I can somehow get it into the line? I cannot find a place that has a snake longer than 100'. The contractors snaked the line themselves with a 200' snake on both ends and theirs went in without a problem.

I will also try contacting the town today to see if they have the records, but from what I remember the BI saying, they only keep records for 5 years.

Thanks again buddy.

Joe

On 10/25/2015 7:30 PM, wrote:
Hi all.

I bought a house built in 2007 a few months ago. It has underground phone and power lines. The house is 650 ft from the road. I tried to have cable installed, and the installer verified that I do not have a cable line that runs to my house. Upon further inspection, I located an empty conduit at the house and an empty conduit at the street. Both have string lines for pulling in them. I've tried pulling the lines but they are stuck.

Charter communications agreed to have a company come out and inspect the line and flush it out of it was blocked. Unfortunately they ran into a problem. They pressurized both sides of the conduit to 350psi and there is no air leak.

Halfway between the house and street there is a power box and telephone tower junction box. The cable contractors seem to think that there must be a junction fortune empty conduit in the vicinity of the power / telephone boxes. They are about 325 ft from the house and street. They told me I need to locate the junction myself before they can run a cable line.

I have not been able to figure out a way to locate the junction myself. No rental company has a snake longer than 100ft and to hire a company to come out and run a jet line (recommended by the contractor) would cost $1,200.

Does anyone have any ideas as to how to locate the underground junction? Im at a loss, without cable and wifi. My two little boys don't have Mickey Mouse Clubhouse anymore and they are bugging me hahaha. Thank you in advance for the ideas folks!

-Lost dad in CT. Aka Joe

All the underground conduit must have a wire in the trench near the
conduit. Call the local number for the service that finds and marks all
the underground utilities so a contractor can excavate without hitting
the existing conduit/pipes/etc. This service is free to you, paid for by
the various utilities in your area.

They will mark the path of each conduit with spray marker and you will
be able to see where each conduit/trench is located.

Satellite TV will probably be cheaper in the long run.

Paul

On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

The conduit on both ends have been pressurized to 350 psi and held
the pressure for over 10 minutes. That would means to me that there
are no leaks unfortunately.

If the pipes were made from plastic, 350 PSI is enough to blow the
couplings and crack the sides out of the pipe. No leaks could also
mean that there's no continuity from end to end. When you say that it
"held pressure for over 10 mins", does that mean that the pressure
stayed at 350 psi with the compressor turned off, or that it took 10
minutes to leak down to 0 psi? If you are unable to see end to end
continuity with air pressure, then you will certainly not be able to
shove a snake down the pipe without hitting something blocking the
path. Or, there may not be a path. Also, If there really is a pull
box in mid path with hole plugs, your 350 PSI pressure test just blew
all the plugs out, which will later let water into the boxes. Pull
boxes are made to handle high pressure from the OUTSIDE (to keep water
out), not from the inside. Nice work. Also, how did you get 350 PSI
air? Most shop single stage air compressor will only do about 150 PSI
max.

I suggest you use the whistle trick from each end. If you have air
continuity from end to end, you should be able to easily hear the
whistle at the other end with a stethoscope. Depending on the depth
of the conduit and the construction, you should also be able to hear
it through the ground. (Some specifics on what materials you're
working with would be helpful). You may not be able to trace the
entire pipe, but you can at least get the general direction.

If you have money, rent an underground pipe locator. Shove your 100ft
snake through each end of the pipes, use that as an "antenna", and
follow the pipe lines. You'll be missing 100ft in the middle, but I
think you might be able to visually connect the dots.

Where can I find a radio transmitter that I can somehow get it
into the line? I cannot find a place that has a snake longer than 100'.
The contractors snaked the line themselves with a 200' snake on
both ends and theirs went in without a problem.

If the pipe is steel, you won't get any RF through it. There are low
frequency pipe finders that will go through dirt. However, they
require a tracer wire be buried with the conduit.
https://www.google.com/#q=underground+pipe+locator

I will also try contacting the town today to see if they have the
records, but from what I remember the BI saying, they only keep
records for 5 years.

How about a clue as to what you're working with?
Type of conduit pipe? Diameter? Depth of burial?
What's currently in the conduit?
Type of ground? Concrete overlay? Rocky? Water table?

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

"Jeff Liebermann" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 26 Oct 2015 07:36:00 -0700 (PDT),

snip

If the pipe is steel, you won't get any RF through it. There are low
frequency pipe finders that will go through dirt. However, they
require a tracer wire be buried with the conduit.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

.... and if the pipe is steel a two-unit tracer will work. They can be
rented from a surveyors' supply store -- or at least they could when I
rented one in Anchorage to trace existing antenna cables at the HF xmtr site
at Elmendorf AFB.

Unit 1 is laid on the ground over the known location of any part of the
conduit, cable, water pipe -- whatever you have to trace -- and it couples a
low-power, low-freq signal into the ground and into the trace object. Unit
2 is handheld and is used to follow the reradiated signal from the conduit,
somewhat in the manner of a metal detector. (Just don't get too close to
Unit 1 or you pick it up through the air and you don’t trace anything.)

For the dozen or so cables that were intertwined close to Air Force
transmitter building, my tracing was sometime a bear. For one conduit, you
should be able to do it easily. If you can’t rent one, find a surveyor who
owns one and maybe you can pay him to send a helper to your house with his
tracer. Youtube has multiple videos that display the use. From my
experience, every one of the half-dozen videos I opened was dumb-looking, so
I can’t recommend any videos. However, if something is better than nothing,
search on Youtube for underground conduit tracer and make your own
evaluation. I think my tracer in 1995 was pretty easy to use. Unit 1
output power and Unit 2 sensitivity were both adjustable.

This one video sucks the least ... but the guy begins by demonstrating it
with insufficient separation, which is wrong.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UNCTpk1W5cU

"Sal"
John, KD6VKW

....any ideas as to how to locate the underground junction?

Is the conduit metallic or some plastic? I ask only
because if it's a metal you can connect an oscillator of
some sort (GDO, Antenna Analyzer, etc) you should
be able to trace the route of the conduit using a pocket
short wave receiver, and if you are really lucky,
you might find a bend or some anomaly
that would point out the junction. I'm just taking a shot
in the dark, but it might be a quick and simple solution.

Irv VE6BP

The conduit is 3" sc 40 pvc. There are no wires in it, but once I find it there will be lol.

Charter is now saying if I do not locate the ends by the beginning of next week, I will have to wait until the spring. Looks like my weekend is going to consist of lots of digging!