"Mark Keith" wrote in message
om...
"Thierry" http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote in message
...
Ok Mark, for sure for DXing a dipole or a windom is not a beam...

I'd rather have the coax fed dipole over the windom any day though...I
Hi,

No. For a true dipole and get a low impedance etc I prefer by far the ladder
line; The coax is easier but is less performing
This is not much difference, but measurable. I always prefered the optimum
solution.

bet many people would think it's a beam , the way it will most likely
trounce the average windom.
I tried one "windom" at a field day against a coax fed dipole. The
dipole won by 2 s units in any direction. Thats about what you would
see going from a coax dipole to an average beam...:/ Or by changing
from 100w to 500w-1 KW...


Ok. I will see but 2 S-unit are much. What is sure is that the radiation
pattern of a carolina windom is next over a dipole :
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...on-pattern.gif
it is much more omnidorectionnal what could explain is overall better
performance.



My objective is Dxing first as for local QSOs this is not a problem to
get
S9+.

If it's working local, why would it not be working dx ok? Why the
change to an antenna which basically will be the same, assuming

Local is not DX. High takeoff angle vs. very low. This is a huge difference
if you check your receive strength signal.

73
Thierry, ON4SKY

element lengths are fairly close for a given band, barring any changes
in feedline efficiency? IE: I assume you are going to switch from a
G5RV to a windom....
Thinking about either one of those antennas makes me want to take up
golf...
I don't like either one. It's no secret though....
The only thing the G5RV has going for it, is it is nearly a EDZ on
20m. But it's a reduced efficiency version compared to one fed in a
normal manner...
Coax to a choke to ladder line as a feedline is no way to live for a
serious dx'er who wants most of his power to actually be radiated by
the antenna element...The windom is not much better in this
regard....Or at least the ones I've seen.

I know very well that DX performances will be more than limited, all the
more in SSB, but this is a temporary solution waiting for a small beam
3-or
4 ele.

You still don't mention which band/s though... There are fairly simple
wire antennas much better for dx than the usual all band compromise
wire antenna. IE: extended double zepps, phased parallel dipoles, etc,
etc. I would use something along those lines if I wanted to dx say 20m
or up...If you want to dx 80/40, you might consider a bobtail curtain
or variant, or a good vertical. Trying to increase the dx potential by
changing from one semi lame antenna , to another semi lame antenna
strikes me as counterproductive. But, it's your yard and $$$.... :/
MK

No, no, no.. I said the vertical element was 20' off the
ground....bottom of the vertical feedline 20' off the ground, means
antennas height in the center was about 40-50'.
dt


On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:51:18 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"dmr" wrote in message
.. .
I have used 160M Carolina windoms for the past 5 years or so and have
found them to be really good performers. The higher you can get the
vertical element off the ground the better (I have had good results
with it only 20' off the gorund....Radioworks recommends more). I have
never modeled it, nor had experience with G5RV, but compared to a half
wave dipole at similar height, my "impression" is that it performs at
least as well, probably better, plus multiband. Beward you will need
to use a tuner with it, and if you are running legal limit, be careful
of your SWR's as you can burn out the balun or RF choke (they are not
traps).

Hi,

160m long 20' high ? That must be interesting and u had to confirm over 100
dx with such a length...
I very well know these problems of SWR etc,and many others. I am an OT you
know,... Hi! I learnt the lesson in the past in experimenting live a bad
SWR... youth errors as one tells... but interesting because I never more
forget the lesson, like many others in experimenting myself.
With some respect it it far better to be chocke a second and get a little
blister due to a SWR over 5:1 using a kW amp that having hours of theory...
because you cannot fix your idea on concrete things.

For the rest, of course the heigth (and length) are VERY important, all
using a dipole or windom all work fine or almost from 8m high and 20m long
and up. Below your radiation pattern is seriously affected compared to the
ideal solution (say 2-lamba over 12m high). And you feel that very well when
trying to call CQ DX and even simple CQ up to 5000 km away.
To get an idea simulate these specs in modeling software like multiprop that
use a VOACAP engine, or even nec, hfant and others.

See my best site for detail.
Thanks for the help.

73
Thierry, ON4SKY

There has been a lot of debate about this antenna, but I can
tell you the 160M version works quite well on all bandsl.
GL es 73
Dan (k0dan)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:28 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is
a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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Thierry wrote:
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

It is designed to radiate some vertically polarized energy so it
is also designed to receiver some vertically polarized energy.
That would render the Carolina Windom virtually useless at my QTH.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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Thierry wrote:
Without speaking about heigth above ground, QRG and length, how do we
explain the more or less omnidirectional pattern against a dipole, see
diagram at
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...on-pattern.gif
if there is no radiation from the coaxial ?

The vertical coax section between the impedance matching device at the
feedpoint and the RF choke is designed to radiate and it does. The
coax between the RF choke and the source is designed not to radiate.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Thierry wrote:
Without speaking about heigth above ground, QRG and length, how do we
explain the more or less omnidirectional pattern against a dipole, see
diagram at

http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...on-pattern.gif
if there is no radiation from the coaxial ?

The vertical coax section between the impedance matching device at the
feedpoint and the RF choke is designed to radiate and it does. The
coax between the RF choke and the source is designed not to radiate.
--

Hi Cecil,

it is well what i though, but in my case this is a Carolina Windom like on
this drawing
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...windom-dwg.gif

The balun is attached to the wire and there is no segment above it. the coax
enter the balun and the otehr side goes to the TX
hence my question. And is this design still a Carolina Windom, excepted the
segemnts of 1/3 2/3, it looks more to a hybrid between the dipole and the
Windom... isn't it ?
And on this model, if it uses a choke balun (what is not sure) the coax 'd
not radiate RF, othewhise of course if radiate much, like an vertical

Thierry, ON4SKY



73, Cecil, W5DXP


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it is well what i though, but in my case this is a Carolina Windom like on
this drawing
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...windom-dwg.gif

The balun is attached to the wire and there is no segment above it. the
coax
enter the balun and the otehr side goes to the TX
hence my question. And is this design still a Carolina Windom, excepted
the
segemnts of 1/3 2/3, it looks more to a hybrid between the dipole and the
Windom... isn't it ?
And on this model, if it uses a choke balun (what is not sure) the coax 'd
not radiate RF, othewhise of course if radiate much, like an vertical

Thierry, ON4SKY


What you have is the standard Off Center Fed antenna. A true Windom is fed
with a single wire about 1/3 the distance from one end. Many are calling
the OCF antenna a Windom which it is not. The OCF antenna is often called a
Windom by mistake. The Carolina Windom has about 6 meters of coax that is
vertical below the horizontal part and then a common mode choke. The
vertical is suspose to radiate some signal for DX and the horizontal is for
a higher angle of radiation for the close in stations. I don't know if it
actually works this way in practice , but that is their selling point. Here
is a URL for the Carolina Windom.

http://www.radioworks.com/ccwcover.html

Thierry wrote:
it is well what i though, but in my case this is a Carolina Windom like on
this drawing
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...windom-dwg.gif

The balun is attached to the wire and there is no segment above it. the coax
enter the balun and the otehr side goes to the TX
hence my question. And is this design still a Carolina Windom, ...?

Good Grief! No, that is *NOT* a Carolina Windom, which is an antenna
sold by Radio Works. Hopefully, they have it copyrighted and therefore
can object to the above BS. See it at

http://www.radioworks.com/ccwcover.html

The antenna you mention is simply an off-center-fed dipole, not really
a Windom at all. (Why are people with 65 IQ's allowed to build web pages?)
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Thierry wrote:
it is well what i though, but in my case this is a Carolina Windom like
on
this drawing
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry/Radi...windom-dwg.gif

The balun is attached to the wire and there is no segment above it. the
coax
enter the balun and the otehr side goes to the TX
hence my question. And is this design still a Carolina Windom, ...?

Good Grief! No, that is *NOT* a Carolina Windom, which is an antenna
sold by Radio Works. Hopefully, they have it copyrighted and therefore
can object to the above BS. See it at

http://www.radioworks.com/ccwcover.html

The antenna you mention is simply an off-center-fed dipole, not really
a Windom at all. (Why are people with 65 IQ's allowed to build web pages?)

the 65 IQ has nothing to do with it. The problem is that the manufacturer
sold it as a Windom...
and it is as it is off center fed... with a simple balun and coax, but the
opposite is not true.
Ok it is not a carolina, it 's only me who mixed both designs.

73
Thierry

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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