On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 16:05:39 GMT, Richard Clark wrote:

On Thu, 16 Sep 2004 17:39:50 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:
The objective is using them for local qso but also dx in ssb (according to
their possibilities, thus not up to reach JA from ON or maybe via the
grayline, to see..)

Hi Thierry,

One application (local/DX) has to suffer at the expense of the other.
YOU have to choose which application you want as first choice.

I am going to install both (in NS and EW direction) but I really don't know
which is best or if they are really on par.

This is another choice YOU have to make. What do YOU want to do? If
it is grayline, you cannot do this very effectively with a dipole
going North/South.

Even going East/West will not result in the best if you work stations
mostly in a ENE/WNW Great Circle bearing.

You need to use a propagation program like WinVOA to see what design
you need (dipole orientation that is) and then build to that bearing.
If you build two antennas that are crossed (and even if one is Windom
and the other G5RV); then you will have a suitable solution -
somewhere (even if you drive them both and phase them).

There is this already 2 or 3 hardware differences.

These are practical problems of construction, not operational results.

Knowing that one segment of the Windom is shorter, does it impact negatively
the radiation pattern with e.g. more sensitivity to QRM or other "defect"
that G5RV doesn't show ?

Short answer: NO. Long answer: Yes.

a field experiment is faster and welcome ;-)

Only if we happen to be a neighbor - quel dommage.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Hi Thierry,

If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole. Except for their use on harmonically
ralated bands the radiation is the same for each. Any different radiation
pattern on harmonically related bands results only from a difference in lengths
of the dipoles. The dipole length of the traditional G5RV is 102 feet. If the
Windom is cut for some longer length the pattern will be somehwhat different on
the higher harmonic bands, but the difference will be rather insignificant.

Walt, W2DU

Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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I have used 160M Carolina windoms for the past 5 years or so and have
found them to be really good performers. The higher you can get the
vertical element off the ground the better (I have had good results
with it only 20' off the gorund....Radioworks recommends more). I have
never modeled it, nor had experience with G5RV, but compared to a half
wave dipole at similar height, my "impression" is that it performs at
least as well, probably better, plus multiband. Beward you will need
to use a tuner with it, and if you are running legal limit, be careful
of your SWR's as you can burn out the balun or RF choke (they are not
traps). There has been a lot of debate about this antenna, but I can
tell you the 160M version works quite well on all bandsl.
GL es 73
Dan (k0dan)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:28 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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"dmr" wrote in message
...
I have used 160M Carolina windoms for the past 5 years or so and have
found them to be really good performers. The higher you can get the
vertical element off the ground the better (I have had good results
with it only 20' off the gorund....Radioworks recommends more). I have
never modeled it, nor had experience with G5RV, but compared to a half
wave dipole at similar height, my "impression" is that it performs at
least as well, probably better, plus multiband. Beward you will need
to use a tuner with it, and if you are running legal limit, be careful
of your SWR's as you can burn out the balun or RF choke (they are not
traps).

Hi,

160m long 20' high ? That must be interesting and u had to confirm over 100
dx with such a length...
I very well know these problems of SWR etc,and many others. I am an OT you
know,... Hi! I learnt the lesson in the past in experimenting live a bad
SWR... youth errors as one tells... but interesting because I never more
forget the lesson, like many others in experimenting myself.
With some respect it it far better to be chocke a second and get a little
blister due to a SWR over 5:1 using a kW amp that having hours of theory...
because you cannot fix your idea on concrete things.

For the rest, of course the heigth (and length) are VERY important, all
using a dipole or windom all work fine or almost from 8m high and 20m long
and up. Below your radiation pattern is seriously affected compared to the
ideal solution (say 2-lamba over 12m high). And you feel that very well when
trying to call CQ DX and even simple CQ up to 5000 km away.
To get an idea simulate these specs in modeling software like multiprop that
use a VOACAP engine, or even nec, hfant and others.

See my best site for detail.
Thanks for the help.

73
Thierry, ON4SKY

There has been a lot of debate about this antenna, but I can
tell you the 160M version works quite well on all bandsl.
GL es 73
Dan (k0dan)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:28 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is
a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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No, no, no.. I said the vertical element was 20' off the
ground....bottom of the vertical feedline 20' off the ground, means
antennas height in the center was about 40-50'.
dt


On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 11:51:18 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"dmr" wrote in message
.. .
I have used 160M Carolina windoms for the past 5 years or so and have
found them to be really good performers. The higher you can get the
vertical element off the ground the better (I have had good results
with it only 20' off the gorund....Radioworks recommends more). I have
never modeled it, nor had experience with G5RV, but compared to a half
wave dipole at similar height, my "impression" is that it performs at
least as well, probably better, plus multiband. Beward you will need
to use a tuner with it, and if you are running legal limit, be careful
of your SWR's as you can burn out the balun or RF choke (they are not
traps).

Hi,

160m long 20' high ? That must be interesting and u had to confirm over 100
dx with such a length...
I very well know these problems of SWR etc,and many others. I am an OT you
know,... Hi! I learnt the lesson in the past in experimenting live a bad
SWR... youth errors as one tells... but interesting because I never more
forget the lesson, like many others in experimenting myself.
With some respect it it far better to be chocke a second and get a little
blister due to a SWR over 5:1 using a kW amp that having hours of theory...
because you cannot fix your idea on concrete things.

For the rest, of course the heigth (and length) are VERY important, all
using a dipole or windom all work fine or almost from 8m high and 20m long
and up. Below your radiation pattern is seriously affected compared to the
ideal solution (say 2-lamba over 12m high). And you feel that very well when
trying to call CQ DX and even simple CQ up to 5000 km away.
To get an idea simulate these specs in modeling software like multiprop that
use a VOACAP engine, or even nec, hfant and others.

See my best site for detail.
Thanks for the help.

73
Thierry, ON4SKY

There has been a lot of debate about this antenna, but I can
tell you the 160M version works quite well on all bandsl.
GL es 73
Dan (k0dan)

On Fri, 17 Sep 2004 15:35:28 +0200, "Thierry"
http://www.astrosurf.com/lombry wrote:


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Walter Maxwell wrote:
If I may put in my two-cents worth, a dipole is a dipole. The G5RV is
a
dipole
and the Caroling Windom is a dipole.

Hi Walt, I don't know if you know or not, but the Carolina Windom
is designed for the vertical section to radiate so it has a
radiation pattern which is a combination of a dipole and a vertical.


Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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-----== Over 100,000 Newsgroups - 19 Different Servers! =-----

Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

Why would QRM be a problem ? The beter the antenna the more signal it will
pick up. Maybe you ment QRN (noise) instead of M (undesired radio signals)
?

"Ralph Mowery" wrote in message
ink.net...
Indeed, all the interest of the thing..., hence my question.
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

Thierry, ON4SKY

Why would QRM be a problem ? The beter the antenna the more signal it
will
pick up. Maybe you ment QRN (noise) instead of M (undesired radio
signals)
?

No ! I speak of QRM, made made, due to vertical segment (vertical polarized
I believed) that, i thougth, 'd pick up more QRM, in the same way as a
vertical antenna coupled to a dipole tight horizontally e.g..
But in this case it doesn't as this is a common-mode choke balun ; there is
no RF radiation form the coax.
In all cases I will see the result in the field very soon, adn could
appreciate both designs (dipole vs. windom).

Thierry, ON4SKY

Thierry wrote:
But I wonder also about the QRM pick-up along this vertical segment...
I will have the answer in two weeks.

It is designed to radiate some vertically polarized energy so it
is also designed to receiver some vertically polarized energy.
That would render the Carolina Windom virtually useless at my QTH.
--
73, Cecil, W5DXP


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