Jack Painter wrote:
wrote
I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Starting with a new battery, I have used a 12v marine deep-cell with
small
float-charger to power a 25w VHF transceiver for over two years. For
short
periods, this will handle 100w xmit on an HF rig that draws 20-30amp.
When a
charger is connected to a battery, adequate ventilation must be
provided,
and the smoking lamp is "out". There is nothing wrong with using an
emergency backup battery as part of normal (indoor) operations. It
will
provide hundreds of hours of monitoring and several minutes of
low-power
transmit w/o requiring a charge.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

How do you "vent" a batter thay is constantly hooked up to a trickel
charger?

wrote

Jack Painter wrote:
wrote
I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Starting with a new battery, I have used a 12v marine deep-cell with
small
float-charger to power a 25w VHF transceiver for over two years. For
short
periods, this will handle 100w xmit on an HF rig that draws 20-30amp.
When a
charger is connected to a battery, adequate ventilation must be
provided,
and the smoking lamp is "out". There is nothing wrong with using an
emergency backup battery as part of normal (indoor) operations. It
will
provide hundreds of hours of monitoring and several minutes of
low-power
transmit w/o requiring a charge.

Jack Painter
Virginia Beach, Virginia

How do you "vent" a batter thay is constantly hooked up to a trickel
charger?

First, mine is not constantly connected to the charger. When it is, I have a
window open and a fan circulating air in the station. Battery vents in an
automotive or outdoor environment often become sealed-shut. This is not the
case with a clean battery used indoors-only. A very small amount of moisture
is sometimes visible on the surface of the battery around the vents
following use of a powerful charger. This has never been my experience from
the trickle-charger, however. Keep the battery surfaces clean, verify that
the vents exist, then leave them in their normal (not loosened) condition
and all is well. Not all batteries are vented and I would avoid using any
charger indoors in that situation.

Jack

On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker) but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car. I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use
in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace
the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker)
but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car.
I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Richard Clark wrote:
On 25 Jan 2005 11:12:20 -0800, wrote:

So you are saying it wont matter?

I was wanting to use the marine battery I have but someone else
posted
a negative experience with the fumes ruining part of their house and
their own health. It scared me a little.

Hi Don,

Well it seems in the interim, you got good advice as to battery use
in
the shack, and shabby advice about writing. ;-)

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid. I went this direction knowing full well most
batteries die because of one cell failure - this way I can replace
the
dead cell. My buddy used a deep discharge battery that was over
floated (probably 15V) and he rarely minded the water level (too bad
too) as he boiled it down. There was some obvious corrosion near the
battery (sitting open to the environment, and he's a heavy smoker)
but
nothing widespread (his battery sat in a plastic tray on a wooden
shelf).

During normal use at field day, my batteries lasted many hours. When
the rig began to sputter, I swapped one out to charge from the car.
I
also monitored the voltage, and rarely ran below 11.5 Volts. Even
with a "quick" charge, I would always current limit it to about 5A.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.


I don't know what other's opinions will be regarding this, BUT - mine is NO.
I know a guy who fried a H.F. radio twice by doing that. Maybe he didn't
have it connected altogether properly, but the charger fried his radio twice
and it cost him a few bucks to get it fixed both times. The first time, he
didn't say what caused the failure. The second time, he figured out it had
to be the charger. Since he quit using the charger at the same time - once
the set was repaired - again, the set has worked fine. And yes, he still
uses the battery and a charger. He just disconnects the charger before
using - now.

L.

Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

Only if the charger isn't set properly.

What we're doing is called "float" service, where the charger voltage is set
lower than it would be for normal "recharge a dead battery" sorts of
applications. You have to check your particular battery's spec, but most
sit around 13.8-ish instead of the normal charger output of about 14.4.

On 26 Jan 2005 05:32:13 -0800, wrote:

Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

Hi Don,

Well then, I must presume it is the inferior product to blame (or
perhaps inferior advice). Take note that Dave has an identical
installation and we both suffer no problems whatever and this is for
YEARS of sustained service.

Hawker guarantees my cells for 15 Years of life and fully recommends a
continuous float charge. There are probably 100 Million batteries in
hospital corridors, schools, churches, theaters, public service
buildings all sitting there on a float charge waiting to turn on the
emergency lighting. In fact my current limiting of the quick charge
is overly conservative as Hawker explicitly offers there is no
restriction to inrush current from professional grade chargers.

Lou's report of his buddy's charger running at 18 V is nothing short
of a death wish with a meter indicator. If you read the precautions
printed on that charger's box, it also says it is dangerous to charge
an automotive battery with it while the battery is still connected to
the automotive electronics.

If you choose to employ cycle charging (where you disconnect the
charger and run the battery down), then you need to run at a higher
charge voltage which is typical of most chargers off the shelf for
automotive work where you are doing a battery overnight. The higher
voltage is NOT GOOD for floating - unless you have deep pockets for
battery replacement. In the case of automotive batteries, their ONLY
use is to start the engine. After that, they are little more than a
chemical capacitor for the alternator's supply to the automotive
electrical system. In the old days, better cars had a dash mounted
Ammeter. The plus indication showed a slight positive indication for
the alternator load (charge and ignition in the days before megawatt
stereo systems); or a negative indication when you were running on
battery alone (and your -well in this case, and age- generator was
shot).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

wrote:



Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently.
Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.

No. Thats the whole point of the "automatic" charger. The old style
"trickle"
chargers should not be left on past full charge for long periods.
I use a 12/2 automatic, and it's on 24/7. But, same for my 706. It's
usually
on 24/7...I bought it in 2001, and it probably hasn't had a full weeks
rest
since then...When a "12v" battery thats on a charger reaches appx 14.4
volts, it's
fully charged. If you unplug the charger, or if automatic cut off, the
voltage
will drop down to about 13.8v. When it drops much lower than that, the
charger
kicks back on, charges to appx 14.4v, and cuts off...Over and
over..This manner
of charging won't hurt a battery, and can be left on all day if you
want.
A trickle charger reaches 14.4, and keeps charging, but with a lower
current
level. It won't hurt it for short periods of time, but after a while,
the battery
overheats, and thats when you start boiling off electrolyte...How bad
depends on
the charge rate...A 1 amp or less trickle charge is not near as bad as
a 3-5
amp trickle charge to a fully charged battery. But after switching to
automatic,
I could never go back to the old style manual chargers...With those,
sometimes
I would forget to cut them off...And sometimes, I would cut them off,
and forget
to plug back in, and eventually, have a dead battery...Thats worse than
overcharging..
MK

wrote in message
ups.com...
Is it bad to leave a charger hooked up to the battery permanently. Mine
is a 12/2 with automatic operation.


Geeeeez just jump in AND DO SOMETHING!!! Get your feet
wet, you going to spend the rest of your life worrying about what might
happen? Take the proper precautions and get with it. Try to ENJOY the
hobby!!!!!

For the record, my batteries are actually sealed lead-acid Hawker
Energy (Gates) Cyclon BC Cell (25 AH) and not cheap - but then they
are rock solid.

Same ones I use!
Floated across a switchmode 15A charger set to 13.8V.
Been in service for 6 or 7 years with no trouble.

I added an "aw ****" fuse at 60A between the middle terminals at the 6V
point, and it has a couple of hefty outputs ending in powerpoles.