On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:36:57 -0700, Wes Stewart
wrote:
|Hi All,
|
|The statement "an engineer" is certainly inaccurate by my count too.
|What about Davis, Grant, and Eisenhower?

I was thinking of people that I had a chance to vote for. But, what
about them? If we're going to get picky.

You choose to limit the population by who you could've voted for is
not?

Davis wasn't POTUS.

He sure wasn't POTUSSR.


Washington was not an engineer in the usually accepted sense of the
word.

A technically trained user of instrumentation for the purpose of
measuring and generating specifications is not an engineer? We are
not talking about Alchemy or Astrology here. Getting picky.

If attending West Point makes one an engineer, then Grant and Ike were
engineers. Otherwise...

Otherwise? ALL graduates of West Point are engineers. West Point is
the 4th overall rated Engineering school in America. It was the ONLY
Engineering school in America for decades.


Grant worked in his father's leather shop, and was a failed farmer and
financier. (Anheuser Busch owns the farm now. I was there a couple of
months ago.)

I have degrees in the Liberal Arts and have made a career in
Engineering. I have failed in many things. I don't suppose you want
to vote for me, but then I'm not running.

Ike was a jock, who went to West Point intending to play ball, not to
get an engineering degree. (I was at his library, tomb, etc. a couple
of months ago too.)

Begs the results, he graduated with an Engineering degree.

If we're looking for qualifications for greatness, maybe "self-taught"
should be more important than "Harvard-educated lawyer" or "West
Point-educated engineer." Washington and Lincoln top my list. (I
spent some time with Abe this summer too)

This, too, is picky. I can't say that I have any favorite president,
especially after having put my life on the line to obey their orders.
Those several, I'm sure, considered themselves great presidents.

The point is, there is nothing inherently distinctive about being an
Engineer, and being President, and the combination being great or bad.

There is nothing distinctive about a president wearing a flight-suit
for an afternoon - especially when 77% of the troops would vote for
someone else ("The Army Times" Poll, Oct 2003).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 23:36:48 GMT, "Larry"
wrote:

A little off subject, but did you know Robert E. Lee was originally an
engineer in the Army? One of the reasons he was so successful is that he
helped design many of the forts he later captured... partly because he knew
their structural weaknesses.

Larry N8LP


Hi Larry,

We are all off topic. Lee graduated from West Point as Honor man. He
was the first cadet to do so with 0 demerits (damned difficult to,
considering using the word damn hits you with one demerit). Lee was
also the Superintendent of West Point (same as Chancellor or head of a
University). The infrastructure of America (canals, railways,
bridges...) were all designed by West Pointers before the Civil War.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 01:31:12 GMT, Richard Clark
wrote:

|On Sun, 07 Dec 2003 17:36:57 -0700, Wes Stewart
|wrote:
||Hi All,
||
||The statement "an engineer" is certainly inaccurate by my count too.
||What about Davis, Grant, and Eisenhower?
|
|I was thinking of people that I had a chance to vote for. But, what
|about them? If we're going to get picky.
|
|You choose to limit the population by who you could've voted for is
|not?

Forgive me. This topic drifted off when Yuri (if I can remember that
far back) proposed the premise that maybe we would be better off with
engineers running things rather than lawyers and politicians.

I offered *an* example of POTUS and *an* example of a mayor to refute
this idea. I did not intend them to be the *only* examples.

|
|Davis wasn't POTUS.
|
|He sure wasn't POTUSSR.
|
|
|Washington was not an engineer in the usually accepted sense of the
|word.
|
|A technically trained user of instrumentation for the purpose of
|measuring and generating specifications is not an engineer? We are
|not talking about Alchemy or Astrology here. Getting picky.

Not me, the place that I worked for sure was though. I can tell you
from very personal experience that it was the accepted norm that many,
many graduate engineers thought that *anyone*, regardless of talent,
without an engineering degree was not a "real" engineer.

Hell, I knew people that thought that if you didn't have a PhD you
didn't know squat. One of these could not hold a conversation about
the weather without interjecting, "When I was working on my
thesis...."

[snip]

| I don't suppose you want
|to vote for me,

You have a great gift of gab, but no, I wouldn't vote for you g

"Larry" wrote in message igy.com...
A little off subject, but did you know Robert E. Lee was originally an
engineer in the Army? One of the reasons he was so successful is that he
helped design many of the forts he later captured... partly because he knew
their structural weaknesses.

Larry N8LP

Larry, so good to see you back.
What ever happenned with your article and ARRL?
It would be a real shameif your article doesn't reach
the ham community at large.
Best regards
Art




"Richard Clark" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 7 Dec 2003 08:38:48 -0600 (CST),
(Richard Harrison) wrote:

Wes, N7WS wrote:
"We had an engineer for President. Look how well that worked out. One
term and we replaced him with a movie actor.

Jimmy Carter in retirement, is negotiating peace accords around the
world. He is now in Geneva working with Palestineans and Israelis.

We`ve had other engineers starting with George Washington.

We`ve had Herbert Hoover, a,n engineer, who wrecked the economy, as
Ronald Reagan later did. Hoover, the engineer was replaced by FDR who
served 11 years and changed the world for the better forever. W. is
trying to undo the New Deal and in the process will likely wreck the
economy as Hoover did.

Best regards, Richard Harrison, KB5WZI

Hi All,

The statement "an engineer" is certainly inaccurate by my count too.
What about Davis, Grant, and Eisenhower?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Art:

My friend you have me confused with someone else!

I have never once commented or posted anything about *your* antenna
inventions or technical claims. Nor do I intend to until you stop whining!

What I have commented on is your many posts which contain
complaints laments and cries for pity and understanding because of your
claimed lack of knowledge, expertise, or whatever.

Your suppositions that others do not give your *inventions* credit
simply because you lack such personal qualifications is plain stupidity.

Art, that's why I call you "cry baby" and "whiner".

If your technical inventions/claims/whatever... are great then they will
stand
on their own merits and need no support by claims of the insufficient
qualifications of their inventor!

I have noted one here who gives a damn what technical credentials you,
or any other poster to the NG, hold! Your qualifications are irrelevant to
the subject.

[Unless of course you happen to hold a Ph.D. from Cornell
in Astrophysics, only then apparently can you claim that your
graduaton diploma makes your inventions unique and special!
[Heh, heh... That last sentence was not meant to denigrate
that fine University, only one of it's claimed graduates.]

Art, just stop your whining and let the world get on with its
valid and invalid critiques of your work!

Hey... Oliver Heaviside, never accepted his nomination to the Royal Society,
by degreed grandees and he never completed grade school, or studied anything
formally beyond age 16, yet Oliver stood with the greatest scientists,
mathematicians,
engineers and natural philosphers of his time simply be "doing" things that
they couldn't.

Education, academic degrees, and technical training mean nothing.

Art my friend, it's your "track record, it's what you accomplish in life
or do that is important, not what examinations you have passed!

Get real you big cry baby, let what you have done or accomplished stand on
it's
own merits and see if it survives and what others think of it, and just stop
all of your
damned whining!

If it doesn't survive the critiques of the world then it isn't worth a damn
anyway.

No one pays attention to whiners!

I for one simply don't care to waste valuable time investigating any
technical advances
or claims put forward and supported by a whiner and whining.

Whining about inferiority and lack of academic qualifications is a sure sign
that the
prosyletizer probably has nothing worth while to contribute.

Art, put your ideas and inventions out there and let others have at it, if
your ideas
and accomplishments are worthy they will stand on their on, if not they
wont!

But whining about inferior technical qualifications...? What does that
accomplish?

Whining... Man, give it up!

Instead, spend your bandwidth on clear concise explanations of your the
benefits
and originality of your technical contributions.

Nuff said?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message
link.net...
Mac:

[snip]
"J. McLaughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear Peter:
I would have sent this to you privately, but you do not provide a
valid E-mail address.
[snip]

The Internet "worms" nearly *killed* my computer communications
capability
this past year, no thanks to the younger generation of unethical
"hackers"
and
brought to everyone courtesy of the "world's richest man", and so these
days...

If you want to email me direct you must send via the arrl dot net relay.

:-)

[snip]
Well done on presenting the sequence of understanding and
emphasizing the role of mathematics.
[snip]

Thanks!

As you no doubt appreciate, it pays to know a little history only to
avoid repeating it.

There is very little ambiguity equivocationn or cause for argument when
using the universal albeit sometimes cryptic language of mathematics.

The elementary mathematical skills which Art often eschews are neither
difficult nor expensive to acquire and definitely not difficult to carry
around.

Such skills do however require some little dedication to study...

just as the ham radio license *used to* require. :-)

Art's "cry baby" attitude about his lack of such skills does nothing to
help
either himself or the other NG participants.

"Mathematics - just do it" would be a good motto for Art to follow
perhaps
replacing his continual complaints regarding his lack of ability and
qualifications.
Art's "cry baby" comments only appear boorish and become very tiresome
to
NG participants.

Well Peter now you are being stupid and making up stories.
Maybe I can expect the same tactics that you put on Chip when he made
claims on antennas which you didn't understand
But I am ready. You stated lack of skills on my part well I have
enough of those skills that you are talking about. I made the claim of
an antenna that uses all those skills and you stated a good engineer
knows when to discard his model. Well Peter, if you were an engineer
you would not discard it until you made a working model and compared
it to theory ( using all those mathematical skills that you bandy
about or as I say talking the talk). I also gave you the theoretical
background of the antenna and invited you to point out the fallacies
, mathematical ofcourse, and all you still do is 'talk the talk' with
no show.
Well Peter, if that the attitude you need to take me on with then be
my guest,
even with the likes of the Doctor and the Bum holding your coat or
throwing snide remarks is not enough to push me off the newsgroup like
you did with Chip.
So go ahead and be my guest and flaunt your mathematical skills to
show how I and my antenna is a fake and my skills are lacking. I would
love it for you to make a stand on that subject so everybody can see
who you are and what you are
when forced to 'walk the walk'. If I haven't the qualifications in
any subject I carefully state so especially when talking on this
newsgroup,
I am no way interested in infering that I am an expert where I am not,
there are enough doing that already, but with respect to my antenna
work I stand by it. I am willing to walk the walk but you Peter
obviously feel more comfortable in just talking or making acrid
remarks.

So I am staying here Peter, and you can have at it and show your true
colours
Can I now expect for you to sue me now since you are well practiced at
that?

Art Unwin..... XG



[snip]
In "Hamerica" some real Engineers are P.E.s. It is not just for
Canadians.
[snip]

Well Mac as you well know, MI is not far from Canada sharing both
a riverside a lakeside and common weather. What's your point?

:-)

[snip]
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
[snip]

Speaking of Michigan, my wife and I attended a party at our next door
neighbour's home here last week. MI snowbirds, Jo and Ivan had just
arrived here in FL from MI to stay over the season here in their winter
home on our "tropical island".

Me? Even though an ex-Canadian, I like it here on the island all year
long.

Mac. Take care and enjoy the Holiday Season up North.

Art,
For the last time, I am not a doctor. I have never been
a doctor. And, I've never claimed to be a doctor of any
kind. It's a nick name. I didn't pick it, it was 'given'
to me, I didn't have any choice in the matter. But I've had
it for quite some time now and have gotten used to it. If
you want to misconstrue it's meaning, I can't do anything
about that, other than explain as I have a number of times.
If you don't like it, then I'm sorry. But don't expect me
to change it, I'm not going to do that at this late date.
If you don't want to call me 'Doc, that's fine, don't. My
name is Paul, you can use that, or whatever your little
heart desires. I'm tired of your nonsense about a nick name.
------- 'Doc -------

PS - Rather than 'snide', call my remarks about you 'pithy'.
I've never been full of 'snide'. I'll probably admit
to being full of 'pith'.

Einstein : E = m*c^2

Heaviside : p = d/dt

Petert,
I bemoan the fact that so many on this newsgroup such as yourself
just do not understand complex circuits and how it relates to
antennas.
We have an abundance of people who can only do the talk as well as
some that can do the walk. As far as antennas and complex circuitry
goes you have shown that you can only do the walk. That will disapoint
the Doctor of Phillosophy as well as the Bum since they now do not
have anybody to follow, tailgate or whatever for their snide remarks
without content. You are quite correct that
having something after your name as it only shows a level of education
that you have recieved and not meant to show what one has achieved.
As for myself it was my future employer that paved the way with money
and government interjection for me and my family to come to the U.S.
If I 'fooled' them then at that time while in the U.K.then I fooled
them until my retirement in the U.S.where again I became a nothing.

You however, feel that not having retired retains a couple of steps
above us that have, which gives you the right to admonish at will with
a spray of He, He ,He's and a "What" or "****' thrown in for good
measure probably to relieve your own similar tensions obtained by you
from your collegues at work !

Art
By the way I have this picture of you in my mind that shows you short
in height
but certainly not retund. Am I close?
As for lifes track record time is short and the grim reaper does not
give advance notice so get moving.

"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message link.net...
Art:

My friend you have me confused with someone else!

I have never once commented or posted anything about *your* antenna
inventions or technical claims. Nor do I intend to until you stop whining!

What I have commented on is your many posts which contain
complaints laments and cries for pity and understanding because of your
claimed lack of knowledge, expertise, or whatever.

Your suppositions that others do not give your *inventions* credit
simply because you lack such personal qualifications is plain stupidity.

Art, that's why I call you "cry baby" and "whiner".

If your technical inventions/claims/whatever... are great then they will
stand
on their own merits and need no support by claims of the insufficient
qualifications of their inventor!

I have noted one here who gives a damn what technical credentials you,
or any other poster to the NG, hold! Your qualifications are irrelevant to
the subject.

[Unless of course you happen to hold a Ph.D. from Cornell
in Astrophysics, only then apparently can you claim that your
graduaton diploma makes your inventions unique and special!
[Heh, heh... That last sentence was not meant to denigrate
that fine University, only one of it's claimed graduates.]

Art, just stop your whining and let the world get on with its
valid and invalid critiques of your work!

Hey... Oliver Heaviside, never accepted his nomination to the Royal Society,
by degreed grandees and he never completed grade school, or studied anything
formally beyond age 16, yet Oliver stood with the greatest scientists,
mathematicians,
engineers and natural philosphers of his time simply be "doing" things that
they couldn't.

Education, academic degrees, and technical training mean nothing.

Art my friend, it's your "track record, it's what you accomplish in life
or do that is important, not what examinations you have passed!

Get real you big cry baby, let what you have done or accomplished stand on
it's
own merits and see if it survives and what others think of it, and just stop
all of your
damned whining!

If it doesn't survive the critiques of the world then it isn't worth a damn
anyway.

No one pays attention to whiners!

I for one simply don't care to waste valuable time investigating any
technical advances
or claims put forward and supported by a whiner and whining.

Whining about inferiority and lack of academic qualifications is a sure sign
that the
prosyletizer probably has nothing worth while to contribute.

Art, put your ideas and inventions out there and let others have at it, if
your ideas
and accomplishments are worthy they will stand on their on, if not they
wont!

But whining about inferior technical qualifications...? What does that
accomplish?

Whining... Man, give it up!

Instead, spend your bandwidth on clear concise explanations of your the
benefits
and originality of your technical contributions.

Nuff said?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.



"Art Unwin KB9MZ" wrote in message
m...
"Peter O. Brackett" wrote in message
link.net...
Mac:

[snip]
"J. McLaughlin" wrote in message
...
Dear Peter:
I would have sent this to you privately, but you do not provide a
valid E-mail address.
[snip]

The Internet "worms" nearly *killed* my computer communications
capability
this past year, no thanks to the younger generation of unethical
"hackers"
and
brought to everyone courtesy of the "world's richest man", and so these
days...

If you want to email me direct you must send via the arrl dot net relay.

:-)

[snip]
Well done on presenting the sequence of understanding and
emphasizing the role of mathematics.
[snip]

Thanks!

As you no doubt appreciate, it pays to know a little history only to
avoid repeating it.

There is very little ambiguity equivocationn or cause for argument when
using the universal albeit sometimes cryptic language of mathematics.

The elementary mathematical skills which Art often eschews are neither
difficult nor expensive to acquire and definitely not difficult to carry
around.

Such skills do however require some little dedication to study...

just as the ham radio license *used to* require. :-)

Art's "cry baby" attitude about his lack of such skills does nothing to
help
either himself or the other NG participants.

"Mathematics - just do it" would be a good motto for Art to follow
perhaps
replacing his continual complaints regarding his lack of ability and
qualifications.
Art's "cry baby" comments only appear boorish and become very tiresome
to
NG participants.

Well Peter now you are being stupid and making up stories.
Maybe I can expect the same tactics that you put on Chip when he made
claims on antennas which you didn't understand
But I am ready. You stated lack of skills on my part well I have
enough of those skills that you are talking about. I made the claim of
an antenna that uses all those skills and you stated a good engineer
knows when to discard his model. Well Peter, if you were an engineer
you would not discard it until you made a working model and compared
it to theory ( using all those mathematical skills that you bandy
about or as I say talking the talk). I also gave you the theoretical
background of the antenna and invited you to point out the fallacies
, mathematical ofcourse, and all you still do is 'talk the talk' with
no show.
Well Peter, if that the attitude you need to take me on with then be
my guest,
even with the likes of the Doctor and the Bum holding your coat or
throwing snide remarks is not enough to push me off the newsgroup like
you did with Chip.
So go ahead and be my guest and flaunt your mathematical skills to
show how I and my antenna is a fake and my skills are lacking. I would
love it for you to make a stand on that subject so everybody can see
who you are and what you are
when forced to 'walk the walk'. If I haven't the qualifications in
any subject I carefully state so especially when talking on this
newsgroup,
I am no way interested in infering that I am an expert where I am not,
there are enough doing that already, but with respect to my antenna
work I stand by it. I am willing to walk the walk but you Peter
obviously feel more comfortable in just talking or making acrid
remarks.

So I am staying here Peter, and you can have at it and show your true
colours
Can I now expect for you to sue me now since you are well practiced at
that?

Art Unwin..... XG



[snip]
In "Hamerica" some real Engineers are P.E.s. It is not just for
Canadians.
[snip]

Well Mac as you well know, MI is not far from Canada sharing both
a riverside a lakeside and common weather. What's your point?

:-)

[snip]
73 Mac N8TT
--
J. Mc Laughlin - Michigan USA
[snip]

Speaking of Michigan, my wife and I attended a party at our next door
neighbour's home here last week. MI snowbirds, Jo and Ivan had just
arrived here in FL from MI to stay over the season here in their winter
home on our "tropical island".

Me? Even though an ex-Canadian, I like it here on the island all year
long.

Mac. Take care and enjoy the Holiday Season up North.

Art:

[snip]
By the way I have this picture of you in my mind that shows you short
in height but certainly not retund. Am I close?
[snip]

Heh, heh... yse. You really wanna know my physical description!

What's with you?

Next you'll be whining that a short but not rotund man is being critical of
your inventions simply because you are tall and rotund!

Hey! Just in case it matters and FYI...

I'm 5' 8", 165 pounds, blood pressure 115/70, I run 7 minute
miles daily, current age 62, born just after Pearl Harbour,
and my dear wife Mary still thinks I'm a "hunk" after 40 years
of marriage!

What?

Currently I run a "thriving" personal consulting business from my home
office - doing analog and RF design for companies that no longer seem
to be able to find good analog and RF designers among the current
generation of Engineers - and so keep coming back to us "old farts"
for new designs!

What?

--
Peter K1PO
Indialantic By-the-Sea, FL.

Heh, heh... yse. You really wanna know my physical description!

What's with you?



Could it be that he is long lost brother of Chipster?
There is some silimarity :-)
Pa-tents, inquiring mnid, vining, yada, yada


fat BUm but back on Atkins