http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050929/D8CTUA3O7.html

Good News :

http://world.guns.ru/shotgun/sh17-e.htm


point and pull at the nearest BPL repeater




"David Stinson" wrote in message
k.net...
http://apnews.myway.com/article/20050929/D8CTUA3O7.html

Don't worry about the BPLosaurus. It's on the verge of extinction.
Too many other kick ass emerging technologies. 60Hz power lines are
just that.

regards,
N9NEO

wrote in message
oups.com...
Don't worry about the BPLosaurus. It's on the verge of extinction.
Too many other kick ass emerging technologies. 60Hz power lines are
just that.

regards,
N9NEO


I don't know what to make of this one. I wasn't really concerned about BPL,
which I figured was doomed right out of the box. But this isn't quite the
same thing. There's no wild claims of reliable widespread community
internet access through miles of radiating power lines. This promises local
networking, within the home. Not just computer networking, but all sorts of
electronic doo-dads might be networked. While I doubt networking adds much
value to a refrigiderator, I can imagine people would love to move their
computers, printers, TV sets, stereo speakers, DVD players and whatever,
wherever they want without having to worry about RCA connectors, F
connectors, parallel port connectors, S video connectors, binding posts, USB
ports or any of the other confusing nonsense. Just plug it in to the
outlet, and it works -- at least, that's the promise.

Will it work? I don't know, but it doesn't have the overambitions of BPL.
The potential market for this one is much larger than BPL's potential
market. And it sure looks like it will cause SW interference on a local
level, even if not on BPL's regional level.

Frank Dresser

In article ,
Frank Dresser wrote:

Will it work? I don't know, but it doesn't have the overambitions of BPL.
The potential market for this one is much larger than BPL's potential
market. And it sure looks like it will cause SW interference on a local
level, even if not on BPL's regional level.

With Google's $100,000,000 behind it, it WILL work.

Thats why I am supporting a worldwide boycott of Google and it's
customers (the sites that have "ads by google" and their advertisers).

Geoff.


--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (077)-424-1667 IL Fax: 972-2-648-1443 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Support the growing boycott of Google by radio users and hobbyists.
It's starting to work, Yahoo has surpassed Google.

On Sat, 01 Oct 2005 14:32:00 GMT, "Frank Dresser"
wrote:


wrote in message
roups.com...
Don't worry about the BPLosaurus. It's on the verge of extinction.
Too many other kick ass emerging technologies. 60Hz power lines are
just that.

regards,
N9NEO


I don't know what to make of this one. I wasn't really concerned about BPL,
which I figured was doomed right out of the box. But this isn't quite the

BPL itself it probably not doomed at not least for the utilities. They
see it as a way to not only do automated meter reading, but load
leveling/demand control as well. Of course those things can be
handled nicely by the low frequency stuff they use now, but remote
visual monitoring will require much more bandwidth. Many see it as a
way of getting the consumer to pay for the costs of more advanced
monitoring.

same thing. There's no wild claims of reliable widespread community
internet access through miles of radiating power lines. This promises local
networking, within the home. Not just computer networking, but all sorts of
electronic doo-dads might be networked. While I doubt networking adds much

This is old stuff. The only thing new is the chip. It's the home plug
system and what the BPL crowd hope to use and are using at the home
end of their feeds. OTOH there are many home plug systems in current
use that have nothing to do with BPL.

However the article is a bit generous when it talks about the
technology probably being used in Europe and the US due to the more
strict regulations in Japan. What he should have said is BPL is under
more strict regulations, it is *BANNED* in Japan.

value to a refrigiderator, I can imagine people would love to move their

They are talking about smart appliances where, in this case the
refrigerator would run diagnostics and if any thing such as pressure
is out of spec it'd call home reporting it needed service before
actually failing.

computers, printers, TV sets, stereo speakers, DVD players and whatever,
wherever they want without having to worry about RCA connectors, F
connectors, parallel port connectors, S video connectors, binding posts, USB
ports or any of the other confusing nonsense. Just plug it in to the
outlet, and it works -- at least, that's the promise.

It does take a modem for the computer that plugs into the socket, but
yes, you could put the thing any where in the house.
Like a dial up moden that can plug into any phone outlett, this modem
could plug into any electrical outlett.

Will it work? I don't know, but it doesn't have the overambitions of BPL.

Yes, the home plug system has been in use for some time.

The potential market for this one is much larger than BPL's potential
market. And it sure looks like it will cause SW interference on a local
level, even if not on BPL's regional level.

The interference, so far, has been confined to next door neighbors.
According to the reports on some forums you had best hope your
neighbor doesn't purchase one of those Ionic Breeze air filters.

I do wonder about ingress though. As with BPL a 5 watt signal from
100 feet will block almost any system completely (with the exception
of the Motorola which uses hard filtering)

I do some DXing which means I run the legal limit on all bands with
directive antennas. Based on the 5 watts at 100 feet I should take
out any BPL up to a bit over a mile on 20, 15, 10, and 6 meters while
40 and 75 would be about a quarter to half mile and 160 would be maybe
a city block. The 75 meter half wave slopers to the NE (Europe) ends
within 50 feet of the local power line. The one to the sough ends
within a 150 feet of the power line. The one to the NW is pretty much
in the clear. The 40 meter antennas run pretty much in the same
directions but I hope to have a 40 - 10 yagi up soon. As I'm also
setting up for digital including RTTY and WSJT, I don't think it'd
take much of a transmission to shut down quite an area. With the
power levels and antenna gain the ERP might even keep the neighborhood
RF quiet.


Frank Dresser

BTW, the only reason I ended up on this thread Frank was your post. I
make it a policy to never click on links in a post that do not come
with a complete description such as the original post. I typically
kill file the thread as those are the ones that usually send you off
to some malicious site.

Even if it looks like it might be interesting, I let some one else be
the guinea pig. :-))

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

"Roger" wrote in message
...



BPL itself it probably not doomed at not least for the utilities. They
see it as a way to not only do automated meter reading, but load
leveling/demand control as well. Of course those things can be
handled nicely by the low frequency stuff they use now, but remote
visual monitoring will require much more bandwidth. Many see it as a
way of getting the consumer to pay for the costs of more advanced
monitoring.

Which consumers will pay the costs? The power consumers or the presumed
broadband internet over powerline consumers?

Now that I think of it, they could try to sell a BPL security camera for
every utility pole, and ask the police departments to pay for it.



This is old stuff. The only thing new is the chip. It's the home plug
system and what the BPL crowd hope to use and are using at the home
end of their feeds. OTOH there are many home plug systems in current
use that have nothing to do with BPL.

Yeah, you're right. I was going to comment that this Panasonic plan looks a
lot like an upgraded version of the homeplug standard.



However the article is a bit generous when it talks about the
technology probably being used in Europe and the US due to the more
strict regulations in Japan. What he should have said is BPL is under
more strict regulations, it is *BANNED* in Japan.



They are talking about smart appliances where, in this case the
refrigerator would run diagnostics and if any thing such as pressure
is out of spec it'd call home reporting it needed service before
actually failing.

True, but I don't think the average consumer much cares about such
over-hyped geekoid stuff as networked appliances. I'd be far more impressed
with a chip which reduced power consumption by 20% or so. Besides, most
current appliances are already highly reliable. Computerizing appliances in
an attempt to increase reliability might be, at best, a wash.




It does take a modem for the computer that plugs into the socket, but
yes, you could put the thing any where in the house.
Like a dial up moden that can plug into any phone outlett, this modem
could plug into any electrical outlett.


Yes, the home plug system has been in use for some time.

How much RFI does a home plug system make? I have no expirence with
homeplug, but I'm imagining it's on the order of a poorly filtered
switchmode power supply.




The interference, so far, has been confined to next door neighbors.
According to the reports on some forums you had best hope your
neighbor doesn't purchase one of those Ionic Breeze air filters.

I do wonder about ingress though. As with BPL a 5 watt signal from
100 feet will block almost any system completely (with the exception
of the Motorola which uses hard filtering)

I do some DXing which means I run the legal limit on all bands with
directive antennas. Based on the 5 watts at 100 feet I should take
out any BPL up to a bit over a mile on 20, 15, 10, and 6 meters while
40 and 75 would be about a quarter to half mile and 160 would be maybe
a city block. The 75 meter half wave slopers to the NE (Europe) ends
within 50 feet of the local power line. The one to the sough ends
within a 150 feet of the power line. The one to the NW is pretty much
in the clear. The 40 meter antennas run pretty much in the same
directions but I hope to have a 40 - 10 yagi up soon. As I'm also
setting up for digital including RTTY and WSJT, I don't think it'd
take much of a transmission to shut down quite an area. With the
power levels and antenna gain the ERP might even keep the neighborhood
RF quiet.

I'm not sure there's much comfort in that. Radio rights come from
politicians, and politicians respond to public pressure.



BTW, the only reason I ended up on this thread Frank was your post. I
make it a policy to never click on links in a post that do not come
with a complete description such as the original post. I typically
kill file the thread as those are the ones that usually send you off
to some malicious site.

Even if it looks like it might be interesting, I let some one else be
the guinea pig. :-))

Hmmm. Guess I waste time, so you don't have to!


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Frank Dresser

Hell they don't need all that crap to steal from the public on the utility
end.
I moved here to TN to care for my Mom terminal in bed with cancer
3 years ago.
http://personal.atl.bellsouth.net/m/...adbilling.html

You wouldn't believe it but they don't have to put the RATE on the
bills. So why they bother with meter reading at all. They just
charge what ever they want. So long as the TVA routes all
the power via local utility companies they don't have to
account for it to anyone.

They said there wasn't room for it but they can put lines of crap
advert's on the bill. Printing a variable is one of the first things
taught in most computer courses... Where is the rate WHAT is the rate.


Just think what a few dollars a month from all those fools amount
too. Millions!!! And no one gives a damn.

The state quickly washed their hands saying it was a municipal thing.
And the "media" won't touch it because they get their share through
"advertising" As if there were some where else to plug in or get
water from.

Any real investigative journalist looking for a story and fame?


END of soap box.... too old and busted up to pursue this myself.

Cheers Big Bro's commin



"Frank Dresser" wrote in message
...

"Roger" wrote in message
...



BPL itself it probably not doomed at not least for the utilities. They
see it as a way to not only do automated meter reading, but load
leveling/demand control as well. Of course those things can be
handled nicely by the low frequency stuff they use now, but remote
visual monitoring will require much more bandwidth. Many see it as a
way of getting the consumer to pay for the costs of more advanced
monitoring.

Which consumers will pay the costs? The power consumers or the presumed
broadband internet over powerline consumers?

Now that I think of it, they could try to sell a BPL security camera for
every utility pole, and ask the police departments to pay for it.



This is old stuff. The only thing new is the chip. It's the home plug
system and what the BPL crowd hope to use and are using at the home
end of their feeds. OTOH there are many home plug systems in current
use that have nothing to do with BPL.

Yeah, you're right. I was going to comment that this Panasonic plan looks
a
lot like an upgraded version of the homeplug standard.



However the article is a bit generous when it talks about the
technology probably being used in Europe and the US due to the more
strict regulations in Japan. What he should have said is BPL is under
more strict regulations, it is *BANNED* in Japan.



They are talking about smart appliances where, in this case the
refrigerator would run diagnostics and if any thing such as pressure
is out of spec it'd call home reporting it needed service before
actually failing.

True, but I don't think the average consumer much cares about such
over-hyped geekoid stuff as networked appliances. I'd be far more
impressed
with a chip which reduced power consumption by 20% or so. Besides, most
current appliances are already highly reliable. Computerizing appliances
in
an attempt to increase reliability might be, at best, a wash.




It does take a modem for the computer that plugs into the socket, but
yes, you could put the thing any where in the house.
Like a dial up moden that can plug into any phone outlett, this modem
could plug into any electrical outlett.


Yes, the home plug system has been in use for some time.

How much RFI does a home plug system make? I have no expirence with
homeplug, but I'm imagining it's on the order of a poorly filtered
switchmode power supply.




The interference, so far, has been confined to next door neighbors.
According to the reports on some forums you had best hope your
neighbor doesn't purchase one of those Ionic Breeze air filters.

I do wonder about ingress though. As with BPL a 5 watt signal from
100 feet will block almost any system completely (with the exception
of the Motorola which uses hard filtering)

I do some DXing which means I run the legal limit on all bands with
directive antennas. Based on the 5 watts at 100 feet I should take
out any BPL up to a bit over a mile on 20, 15, 10, and 6 meters while
40 and 75 would be about a quarter to half mile and 160 would be maybe
a city block. The 75 meter half wave slopers to the NE (Europe) ends
within 50 feet of the local power line. The one to the sough ends
within a 150 feet of the power line. The one to the NW is pretty much
in the clear. The 40 meter antennas run pretty much in the same
directions but I hope to have a 40 - 10 yagi up soon. As I'm also
setting up for digital including RTTY and WSJT, I don't think it'd
take much of a transmission to shut down quite an area. With the
power levels and antenna gain the ERP might even keep the neighborhood
RF quiet.

I'm not sure there's much comfort in that. Radio rights come from
politicians, and politicians respond to public pressure.



BTW, the only reason I ended up on this thread Frank was your post. I
make it a policy to never click on links in a post that do not come
with a complete description such as the original post. I typically
kill file the thread as those are the ones that usually send you off
to some malicious site.

Even if it looks like it might be interesting, I let some one else be
the guinea pig. :-))

Hmmm. Guess I waste time, so you don't have to!


Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Frank Dresser

snippyd
every utility pole, and ask the police departments to pay for it.
snippyd


BTW that still means the tax payers if I recall who gets money from
where.

Seems as though Central PA has abandoned the idea and termed it as a
failure. Article here.

http://www.mcall.com/news/local/all-...l=all-news-hed