Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:


"Jock." wrote in message
...


On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 18:31:04 +1100, Simon VK3XEM
wrote:



I don't understand why cell phones aren't included.

How many points would I accrue from working my nearest cellphone
node which is about 2 km distant?



WAKE UP! There are so many different things you can do on Amateur
Radio, there is room for everyone.

Absolutely, but this isn't one of them.


I fail to see the difference between using an FM repeater that is linked
to another repeater on a different band, which is commonly done, and
using IRLP.... Yet using the repeater is perfectly acceptable?

Umm, do we have FM repeater contests?


Yep..... Well, contests that allow FM repeater contacts anyway...


IRLP is, usually, vastly different than EchoLink.. If stations at both
ends are using radio, then does it really matter how the link between is
established?

That depends. The idea of using Handi-talkies to talk across the world by
IRLP is interesting after a fashion, but in reality not a lot different
than using a phone patch to do the same.



True, but even a phone patch at one stage in history was popular and they
both still use radio to some degree. Maybe not everybody's 'cup of tea',
but still neither is CW, or SSTV, or RTTY, etc..

Certainly. One of the major reasons that I got into Ham radio *was* the
phone patch. One of my other hobbies is off road 4WD'ing. North of my
QTH is a great place for that. Unfortunately, I sometimes get stuck, and
extricating myself can take anywhere from a few minutes to half a day
(and I think you IRLP'ers have some odd ideas on how to have fun!!)
hehehe but I digress. My XYL gets a bit worried when I don't show up for
dinner, and cell phones just don't work that far out in the woods. But I
can patch in with either my handheld or truck radio, and let her know
I'll be late. All this much to the amusement of my local Ham bud's.


Using linked repeaters is fine, some of which use links

outside amateur bands, yet nobody here is suggesting that we put crap on
those operators!

Frankly, although I use FM repeaters of the linked and normal variety,
they are only for utilitarian purposes, and really aren't all that much
"fun"


I agree, and while I would much prefer to run DX on 50MHz SSB, that isn't
always possible so what happens during other times? Do I just switch all
the radio gear off and give up, or resort to using repeaters and the like???

Well, I don't know what your situation is for the lower HF bands. But
remember, my issue isn't with the mode, even though I don't care for it.
I just think things like contests are silly.


Yes, DX contacts via HF are nice, and may be what many consider to be
true amateur radio, but not everyone can get on HF bands and if IRLP
helps increase activity on radio bands then how can it be a bad thing?

It is a dilution of Amateur radio.


Voice was a dilution of Amateur Radio way back in the early days where CW
was all the go, yet here we are removing CW from the entrance requirements.

Well, I can see a difference when most of the transmission is via fiber
rather than the air.


Rather than criticise those using IRLP, shouldn't we just 'understand' that
maybe they use it for a reason and then encourage them to experiment with
other modes??? On the other hand, I know of many long time hams that use HF
often for DX contacts, even using CW, but at other times (e.g. when mobile,
when portable, or when conditions are very poor) they use IRLP to keep in
touch with overseas stations AND encourage newcomers to the hobby to chat
with people outside their city....

Or, will it encoiurage newcomers to simply stay at the lowes level,
because if chatting to people around the world is their goal, then they
have achieved it. As I have said, if that is what floats their boat,
then so be it.

I do, however, agree that a 24/7 contest for a whole 28 days is starting
to get a bit much! 24/7 for 1 or 2 days should be enough, just like most
other amateur contests.

Under no circumstances is it "like" other amateur contests.

This is what is a little bothersome about the whole thing. For me to
participate in an HF contest, (excluding that I have to do this stuff to
get on the air anyhow) I need to erect an antenna system that works fairly
well, I have to hone my receiving skills so that I can pull weak signals,
and to learn general good operating practices.

Now, what do I need to do with IRLP?..........


Erect an an antenna system that works fairly well (depending if you use a
repeater or simplex node), learn general good operating practices, get DTMF
working on your radio!!!!

And let us hope they don't stop there!


The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.


I agree EchoLink is just not amateur radio, although I use it sometimes from
inside the house where the XYL wont let me bring my radios!

hehe, my XYL was also pretty critical. I did eventually tell her that
I was thinking about taking up a new hobby in place of amateur radio.
The new hobby was going to bars and chatting with loose "wimmin". I
retrospect, the ham radio didn't seem so bad. Now as long as my antennas
aren't too obvious, she doesn't complain too much.

But again,
rather than criticise and make fun of their chosen mode, wouldn't we be much
better off encouraging the use of other modes????

Oh, heck, when you put it *that* way........ 8^)

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.


Hmm, and what someone else calls it bothers you? AND they want a contest.
The cheek of it!

Quite!

This a akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Take a
chill pill.

Brian, Chill pills are for the upset. Its just my opinion.

- Mike KB3EIA -

Brian Reay wrote:


I don't think anyone is saying "shut up" etc. I'm saying unless ILRP impacts
you, why worry?

Right. II understan you, but at least two peopple here have told me to
shut up. Or go away, or something like that.

Considering that this is a Usenet group, wouldn't shutting up and going
away deprive them of a good row?

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Dan/W4NTI" wrote in message
ink.net...

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


Dan/W4NTI wrote:

"Simon VK3XEM" wrote in message
...


Get over it! Go back to your CW if you want, who bothers you or bags you
for using it, I know I certainly don't.


--
The views I present are my own and NOT of any organisation I belong to.

73 de Simon, VK3XEM.
http://www.aca.gov.au/pls/radcom/cli...IENT_NO=157452
VoIP http://www.TALKonIP.com.au/


Thanks for bringing this up Mate!.

My major problem is folks refering to interconnecting "hams" over the
internet as "ham radio". Ham radio is R A D I O . Not INTERNET
connected to Nodes then to a radio somewhere. Call it whatever you
want, but it is NOT ham radio.


It is an H-T audio chat room, Dan.

- Mike KB3EIA -

As I said....call it whatever they want. But it ain't Ham Radio.

oh!! yes it is

let's take it one bit at a time

R = repeater = radio, receiver of repeater linked to
transmitter of a repeater in another country
the reverse is true.

I = internet, no problems here

L is for linking, no problems here

P is for protocol, to enable the two repeaters
to be able to be linked to gether, it is
radio at both ends.

what problem do you have with this

ALF VK5ZKL




Dan/W4NTI

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Martin, VK2UMJ wrote:

[SNIP]

I agree, and while I would much prefer to run DX on 50MHz SSB, that isn't
always possible so what happens during other times? Do I just switch all
the radio gear off and give up, or resort to using repeaters and the
like???

Well, I don't know what your situation is for the lower HF bands. But
remember, my issue isn't with the mode, even though I don't care for it. I
just think things like contests are silly.

Well, perhaps.. Then again *I* think that CW contests are silly!!!! ;-)
(now watch as I am slowly flamed by all the CW operators!!)

No, seriously, I agree that perhaps "contest" was a poor choice of titles
for it, although I see what they are trying to do - just the same as we are
all trying to do and get people active in some way. I also think the 28
days was a tad too long, for *any* 'contest'. Maybe if it only included
simplex nodes, or at least a special category to encourage these, that
would've been better as then at least there is some additional skill needed
to erect an antenna suitable for simplex contacts (a piece of string often
suffices for repeaters!!).

[SNIP]

Voice was a dilution of Amateur Radio way back in the early days where CW
was all the go, yet here we are removing CW from the entrance
requirements.

Well, I can see a difference when most of the transmission is via fiber
rather than the air.


Yes, so can I, but amateur 'radio' encompases many, many different
technologies. The days of "wireless" are long gone, decades ago the thought
of connecting a computer to give Packet or SSTV would no doubt have also
been frowned upon as 'not amateur radio'.....


Rather than criticise those using IRLP, shouldn't we just 'understand'
that maybe they use it for a reason and then encourage them to experiment
with other modes??? On the other hand, I know of many long time hams
that use HF often for DX contacts, even using CW, but at other times
(e.g. when mobile, when portable, or when conditions are very poor) they
use IRLP to keep in touch with overseas stations AND encourage newcomers
to the hobby to chat with people outside their city....

Or, will it encoiurage newcomers to simply stay at the lowes level,
because if chatting to people around the world is their goal, then they
have achieved it. As I have said, if that is what floats their boat, then
so be it.


I think that depends a lot on several factors, including the attitude of
fellow amateurs and how much encouragement we give them to try other bands.
Of course, if money or space limits your abilities then perhaps IRLP will be
the only option used, but I would much prefer in that case a licensed
amateur use IRLP rather than see them just give up their licence and leave
the hobby!

For those that can set up other bands, it is up to fellow amateurs (I
believe) to 'spark their interest' and encorage them. I have seen young
Scouts and Guides amazed at how they can chat via radio to people all over
the world, but often the lead up to them experiencing that is to get them on
Packet and show them how a computer can be linked to another computer
without using phone lines.. By sparking their interest using something they
know (computers), we get them to try radio...

[SNIP]

Erect an an antenna system that works fairly well (depending if you use a
repeater or simplex node), learn general good operating practices, get
DTMF working on your radio!!!!

And let us hope they don't stop there!


Too true!! It would certainly be nice to see them progress and take part in
other 'on air' contests next year!


The bothersome part is that it seems like too many IRLP'ers and
Echolinker's, just don't "get " that.


I agree EchoLink is just not amateur radio, although I use it sometimes
from inside the house where the XYL wont let me bring my radios!

hehe, my XYL was also pretty critical. I did eventually tell her that I
was thinking about taking up a new hobby in place of amateur radio. The
new hobby was going to bars and chatting with loose "wimmin". I
retrospect, the ham radio didn't seem so bad. Now as long as my antennas
aren't too obvious, she doesn't complain too much.


I have no problems with antenna's from the XYL, just none of those damn
noisy radio's inside! Has something to do with not enough room I guess.....

But again,
rather than criticise and make fun of their chosen mode, wouldn't we be
much better off encouraging the use of other modes????

Oh, heck, when you put it *that* way........ 8^)

I fully understand your feelings about IRLP, but I just don't think that
publicly criticising those that choose to use the mode is of any benefit, to
anyone! If you (or anyone) truly felt strongly enough about the length of
the contest, then I'm sure that politely worded notes to the organisers
would've gotten much further than some of the whinges we have seen on here!
Otherwise, for those that simply don't like IRLP, for whatever reason, is
there really any benefit to telling everyone this? I don't like CW, but I
don't make a big fuss everytime a CW contest is announces - I simply don't
take part in it! Likewise for those that don't like Packet, or RTTY, or
SSTV - I guess they just avoid those modes. So why should we start a debate
about IRLP that just ends up making us all look rather childish?????

Anyway, have fun and don't get too bogged in that 4WD!!!!



--
Martin, VK2UMJ

To reply by e-mail, replace ".invalid" with ".com.au"


Press any key to continue, or any other key to exit.

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:02:29 GMT, "Ashley VK3HAG"
wrote:

Personally, as a newbie to ham radio, (but long time cb'er and scanner
user) ...

Well, there's a surprise!
[NOT]

73 de G3NYY

Oh look, another ham that was born with a licence and callsign already
allocated!!!

What, you don't think amateurs start somewhere and may even have used other
forms of radio before???



--
Martin, VK2UMJ
(ham since 1996, CB since 1976, former Australian Volunteer CoastGuard and
State Emergency Service (SES) communications operator, SES communications
Subject Matter Expert, Emergency Communications Operator.)

To reply by e-mail, replace ".invalid" with ".com.au"


"I cannot help but notice that there is no problem
between us that cannot be solved by your departure."

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...
Brian Reay wrote:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...


I know that my objection to the internet modes is *not* their
existence, but that so many of their adherents want to call them
"radio". And having a contest only exacerbates the silliness.


Hmm, and what someone else calls it bothers you? AND they want a
contest.
The cheek of it!

Quite!

You seem a bit sensitive.


This a akin to "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin." Take a
chill pill.

Brian, Chill pills are for the upset.

Well, you certainly seem upset.

Its just my opinion.

Fair enough, and live by it by simply having nothing to do with VOIP etc.
Leave those who like it to do their own thing.

--
Brian Reay
www.g8osn.org.uk
www.amateurradiotraining.org.uk
FP#898

"Walt Davidson" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 17:35:30 +1100, "Martin, VK2UMJ"
wrote:

"Walt Davidson" wrote :
On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 02:02:29 GMT, "Ashley VK3HAG"
wrote:

Personally, as a newbie to ham radio, (but long time cb'er and scanner
user) ...

Well, there's a surprise!
[NOT]

Oh look, another ham that was born with a licence and callsign already
allocated!!!

What, you don't think amateurs start somewhere and may even have used other
forms of radio before???

When I got my amateur radio licence in 1960, there was no such thing
as CB in the UK, and no such thing as a code-free amateur licence. We
were much better off then!

CB is the recruitment ground for LIDs.

73 de G3NYY

--
Walt Davidson Email: g3nyy @despammed.com


I know of a few amateurs ( G3's to boot ) that have made a good living out of CB
in the HAY DAYS during the 80's , as well as picking up some more of the
colourful expressions as well , they can still to be heard to-day with their
Personals ,Twigs and Twenty's or even the name would be .

Come to think of it , why when they are working a local why cant they speak their
mother tongue ands have to pretend they're in a convoy.

DieSea

DieSea

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:08:20 +1100, Simon VK3XEM wrote:

Ashley VK3HAG wrote:
Only the nominated Participating Nodes may be used for the contest. However,
nodes that are connected to Reflectors that are Participating (ie a UK Nov
node) still count, but only the Participating Nodes may be connected to by
contesters, therefore it is fair to all stations, as only those nominated
in each country are participating nodes. Note that new nodes are added daily
to the participating list.

That certainly knocks down a lot of the flamers!

Really? To me it just makes the intending participants look even
sillier than before.

73 de Jock.
--
"Maybe this world is another planet's Hell."
- Aldous Huxley (1894-1963)

"Brian Reay" wrote:

: No doubt similar utterances were made when spark transmitters were phased
: out.


Dear Dear Brian.


you mean...you dont know ???

Surley you could have come up with a more definite statement than THAT ??


:
: Technology moves on, that is the nature of things. No one is forcing you to
: use ILRP or any of the other modes.
but yet you force M3 candiates to do a MORSE ASSESSMENT ??


No UK morse assessment pass = no UK licence whatsoever (FACT!)

COMPULSORY MORSE remains in the UK...
something you had a problem with prior to ITU meeting.


have a really really nice day Brian.