Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside
from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also
what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable
beacons on 2M or such.

Eric Weaver wrote:

Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside
from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also
what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable
beacons on 2M or such.

Is this one of those articles reposted from the "usenet 30 years ago"
system?

I think I made a synthesizer using that chip, but that is long ago
and I don't think I would use that today.

On Fri, 4 Jul 2014, Rob wrote:

Eric Weaver wrote:

Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside
from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also
what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable
beacons on 2M or such.

Is this one of those articles reposted from the "usenet 30 years ago"
system?

No, but it is like a flashback.

I think I made a synthesizer using that chip, but that is long ago
and I don't think I would use that today.

I was going to say, it's well in the past. The IC just makes it simpler,
there's nothing magical about the phase detector that can't be had other
wasy, and the rest is just a a crystal oscillator and and divider chain,
and a programmable divider chain. There may be more recent ICs, though a
lot of that has gone out of availability. The problem is, things used in
TV sets and AM/FM radios don't have the versatility of the general purpose
ICs, and the spacing will be too wide. But synthesizer ICs for TV likely
are for being controlled over a serial bus, like that I2C, and in this day
and age that likely is an easier process, saves having find bcd switches
at the very least.

There was a lot of tedious wiring forty years ago for those people making
sythesizers and frequency counters, but what worked then often still works
now, so long as you can get the logic ICs in packages that are not surface
mount. Later ICs became denser, so a 74390 (or schottky variant) has two
decade counters, and an 8bit latch intended for computers is twice as wide
as the 7475 latch so common decades ago in frequency counters.

SOmetimes the longer route along is actually faster than the short route.

Michael

On 7/4/14 2:22 PM, Michael Black wrote:
On Fri, 4 Jul 2014, Rob wrote:

Eric Weaver wrote:

Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside
from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also
what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable
beacons on 2M or such.

Is this one of those articles reposted from the "usenet 30 years ago"
system?

No, but it is like a flashback.

Sorry, my route to !ucbvax has been down a while...


One thing about doing google searches, they find out-of-date results
very well.



I think I made a synthesizer using that chip, but that is long ago
and I don't think I would use that today.

I was going to say, it's well in the past.[[good bits elided]]


SOmetimes the longer route along is actually faster than the short route.

Fair enough.
I like the 145151 because of the dipswitch programming, and not a whole
lot else.
(and I *can* get some pin-DIP 145151's locally, actually, though I'm not
afraid of nailing down an SOT28)

So pardon my ignorance, what's the hip PLL or at least
counter/phase-detector these days?

Eric Weaver wrote:
So pardon my ignorance, what's the hip PLL or at least
counter/phase-detector these days?

Hip these days is not to use a PLL but use an NCO.
Of course there are differences in the spurious and noise output.

However, when still using a PLL and using it for amateur purposes
(small steps relative to the frequency), at least go for a dual-modulus
system. Else the phase comparator has to operate at the frequency of
the channel step, or even at a fraction of that when a fixed prescaler
is required in front of the programmable divider. As the MC145151
at best operates up to 25 MHz, you often will require a prescaler.
A low phase comparator frequency means a slow loop.

The MC145152 is a dual-modulus version. However, note that with a
dual-modulus system it is more complicated to generate the setting
information, probably requiring a microcontroller. Once you are going
to need that, it is easier to use a more modern IC programmed using I2C.

On 04/07/2014 17:46, Eric Weaver wrote:

Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside
from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also
what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable
beacons on 2M or such.


I remember designing this family into a commercial product.

That was in 1984 - guess that that says something ;-}}

PA

On 07/05/2014 12:32 AM, Rob wrote:
Eric Weaver wrote:
So pardon my ignorance, what's the hip PLL or at least
counter/phase-detector these days?

Hip these days is not to use a PLL but use an NCO.
Of course there are differences in the spurious and noise output.

Fair enough. The Si570 and 571 look pretty sweet, but are a bit spendy
on something I was hoping to make a bunch of.



However, when still using a PLL and using it for amateur purposes
(small steps relative to the frequency), at least go for a dual-modulus
system. Else the phase comparator has to operate at the frequency of
the channel step, or even at a fraction of that when a fixed prescaler
is required in front of the programmable divider. As the MC145151
at best operates up to 25 MHz, you often will require a prescaler.
A low phase comparator frequency means a slow loop.

Given that it'll power up and stay on channel a long-ish time, that may
not be a bad thing, but point taken. It need not tune every finest step.



The MC145152 is a dual-modulus version. However, note that with a
dual-modulus system it is more complicated to generate the setting
information, probably requiring a microcontroller. Once you are going
to need that, it is easier to use a more modern IC programmed using I2C.



I guess it's time to hunker down and learn to program an Arduino or
Propeller...

Eric Weaver wrote:
I guess it's time to hunker down and learn to program an Arduino or
Propeller...

When you want to build it entirely yourself, probably yes.

Of course there are many existing designs like this:

http://sdr-kits.net/PA0KLT_Description.html

On 07/06/2014 09:56 AM, Rob wrote:
Eric Weaver wrote:
I guess it's time to hunker down and learn to program an Arduino or
Propeller...

When you want to build it entirely yourself, probably yes.

Well yeah point of personal pride, and all...



Of course there are many existing designs like this:

http://sdr-kits.net/PA0KLT_Description.html


Not a bad deal for around 50 bucks 'murrican. Even when you count the
shipping. Thanks!

On Saturday, July 5, 2014 12:43:38 PM UTC-4, Peter Able wrote:
On 04/07/2014 17:46, Eric Weaver wrote:



Wondering if there are any plans or commercial kits available (aside

from the part-15 3-meter broadcast stuff) with the MC145151 PLL. Also

what VCO people use with it. Seems it would be handy for tunable

beacons on 2M or such.









I remember designing this family into a commercial product.



That was in 1984 - guess that that says something ;-}}



PA

Hey OM
back in the day Farnsworth who invented TV used Diode logic to sync the signals, aka PLL, although me thinks Tesla came up with the first PLL everyone else stole his work. I just came into a bunch of diodes and am going to resurrect DTL circuits. We'll see how it works out, credit goes to Tesla for sure.
73 OM
de n8zu