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#1
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(insert standard "I Am Not A Lawyer" disclaimer HERE)
On Jul 14, 4:18 pm, KC4UAI wrote: On Jul 11, 8:45 pm, "KØHB" wrote: I so wish that the FCC could be persuaded to reconsider us hams in their limited preemption of CC&R's and give us the same standing as TV antennas and satellite dishes. As K2ASP says, that action has to come from Congress. IMHO, part of the problem is that CC&Rs are a different thing than zoning ordinances and other govt. regs. Most anti-antenna rules are essentially private contracts that you, the buyer, agreed to when you bought the place. Asking for preemption means you want out of that part of the deal. That's a tough sell! It is my understanding that what drove the OTARD process for satellite TV was that the satellite TV companies pushed the case, and invested the sizable $$$ resources necessary to win. IIRC, their argument was essentially that the no-TV-antennas CC&Rs effectively created a cable-TV monopoly by making it impossible for some people to choose satellite TV, since the dish has to have a clear view of the sky where the satellite is. Regular broadcast TV was added to the mix a bit later, basically on the same argument. There was big money at stake because the satellite TV folks saw a huge part of the TV market being off-limits to them because of no-satellite-dish CC&Rs. All I want is reasonable accommodation here. The problem is, who determines what's reasonable? In some places a clothesline in the back yard is considered an eyesore! As it stands I’m left to what ever I can cram into the attic and nothing higher than the top of the roof on my single story ranch. Well, it's a buyer's market now.... --- Besides pushing Congress, one of the things I think we hams could do to help the process is to never refer to amateur radio as "a hobby" or even worse, "just a hobby". While most hams do radio simply as an avocation, IMHO the word "hobby" carries with it a sort of meaning that it's not a serious thing worthy of protection. You'll never hear folks who do sports or art nonprofessionally refer to those activities as "just a hobby". Nor will the term be used by volunteers who donate their time and efforts to a variety of causes. IOW, "hobbies" don't get the kind of respect we want amateur radio to have. If we hams describe amateur radio as "just a hobby", the folks who want to restrict us may think "well, if they say it's just a hobby, what's the problem with a few restrictions?" and "there are all sorts of hobbies that these homes don't accomodate, like raising horses, target shooting, or pleasure boating with a boat that won't fit in the garage. What's different about your radio hobby?" You can be sure the satellite TV people pushing for the OTARD ruling never, ever referred to watching TV as "a hobby", even though their viewers don't get paid to watch TV. 73 de Jim, N2EY If I could only put up a few supports and a 35’ vertical, what a difference it would make. |
#2
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:32:00 -0400, N2EY wrote:
IMHO, part of the problem is that CC&Rs are a different thing than zoning ordinances and other govt. regs. Most anti-antenna rules are essentially private contracts that you, the buyer, agreed to when you bought the place. Asking for preemption means you want out of that part of the deal. That's a tough sell! Morally, I would suggest that when a given CC&R restriction is universal - when *every* acceptable property in an area carries identical anti-antenna restrictions - then that contract provision was NOT agreed to. It was *forced* on a buyer who does not have the option of buying a property 5x the size (and 5x the price) of anything else in the neighborhood/living on a street with four crack houses/living 50 miles from work/etc.. In a moral world, the amateur should be able to invalidate anti-antenna restrictions by showing that no comparable property was available that lacked those restrictions. Of course, in the real legal and political world, no such right exists or is likely to come into being... It is my understanding that what drove the OTARD process for satellite TV was that the satellite TV companies pushed the case, and invested th e sizable $$$ resources necessary to win. IIRC, their argument was essentially that the no-TV-antennas CC&Rs effectively created a cable-T V monopoly by making it impossible for some people to choose satellite TV , since the dish has to have a clear view of the sky where the satellite is. Regular broadcast TV was added to the mix a bit later, basically on the same argument. And, I would suggest, supported by a cable TV industry that wanted to be deregulated, something that wasn't going to happen if a large fraction of their customers had no alternative. |
#3
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On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 16:29:11 EDT, Doug Smith W9WI
wrote: Morally, I would suggest that when a given CC&R restriction is universal - when *every* acceptable property in an area carries identical anti-antenna restrictions - then that contract provision was NOT agreed to. It was *forced* on a buyer .... [snipped] In a moral world, the amateur should be able to invalidate anti-antenna restrictions by showing that no comparable property was available that lacked those restrictions. Both of those points were made in the League's last assault on the problem and those arguments fell on deaf ears. That's when the Commission made it clear that they will move if and only if The Congress orders it to. -- 73 de K2ASP - Phil Kane ARRL Volunteer Counsel email: k2asp [at] arrl [dot] net |
#4
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#5
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On Jul 15, 8:16 pm, Dick Grady AC7EL wrote:
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:32:00 EDT, wrote: one of the things I think we hams could do to help the process is to never refer to amateur radio as "a hobby" or even worse, "just a hobby". While most hams do radio simply as an avocation, IMHO the word "hobby" carries with it a sort of meaning that it's not a serious thing worthy of protection. You'll never hear folks who do sports or art nonprofessionally refer to those activities as "just a hobby". Nor will the term be used by volunteers who donate their time and efforts to a variety of causes. IOW, "hobbies" don't get the kind of respect we want amateur radio to have. If we hams describe amateur radio as "just a hobby", the folks who want to restrict us may think "well, if they say it's just a hobby, what's the problem with a few restrictions?" and "there are all sorts of hobbies that these homes don't accomodate, like raising horses, target shooting, or pleasure boating with a boat that won't fit in the garage. What's different about your radio hobby?" Then what do we call it? Avocation? Pasttime? no, none of these ter ms seem appropriate, either. We don't need to call it anything other than "Amateur Radio". The person who gardens/landscapes doesn't use the word "hobby", s/he says "I'm a gardener" and that's it. The amateur artist who paints, sculpts, does pottery, photography, woodwork or any of a range of other activities does not use the word "hobby" either. I know! It's emergency preparation and training. Now that's sounds impressive.. We don't need to sound impressive. All we need to do is not sound apologetic. "Just a hobby" sounds self-denigrating to me. Part 97 does not use the word "hobby". Neither should we. Consider the following conversations: Conversation 1 "What's that wire up there?" "It's my ham radio antenna" "What's ham radio?" "It's just a hobby where I talk to other ham radio operators." "Why would you want to do that? Don't you have a telephone and the internet?" Conversation 2 "What's that wire up there?" "It's the antenna for my Amateur Radio station" "What's Amateur Radio?" "It's a form of noncommercial radio by which licensed radio operators all over the world communicate with each other using a wide variety of methods and technologies." Which do you think sounds better to a non-ham? 73 de Jim, N2EY |
#6
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Dick Grady AC7EL wrote in
: On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 08:32:00 EDT, wrote: Besides pushing Congress, one of the things I think we hams could do to help the process is to never refer to amateur radio as "a hobby" or even worse, "just a hobby". While most hams do radio simply as an avocation, IMHO the word "hobby" carries with it a sort of meaning that it's not a serious thing worthy of protection. Then what do we call it? Avocation? Pasttime? no, none of these terms seem appropriate, either. I know! It's emergency preparation and training. Now that's sounds impressive.. 73 de Dick, AC7EL How about "service". The Amateur Radio Service! 73 de KC1IH |
#7
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![]() wrote in message ... Besides pushing Congress, one of the things I think we hams could do to help the process is to never refer to amateur radio as "a hobby" or even worse, "just a hobby". But ham radio's dirty little secret is that we have let it become "just a hobby". With the exception of 2M most of our VHF/UHF spectrum is shared with "real" users like DoD who tolerate our presence and because they are NTIA (not FCC) controlled are (at least for now) immune to auctions. Our HF spectrum isn't particularly attractive for commercial applications. Were it not for those fortunate circumstances, our allocations would have been auctioned long ago. 73, de Hans, K0HB |
#8
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#9
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Michael Coslo wrote:
Here are some ideas: The old vertical as a flagpole. [ Etc. ] Mind if I play devils advocate here for a minute? Where is it written that as Licensed Amateur Radio Operators we have a fair pass to ignore the rules? What part of "no antennas" in the CC&R you signed do you not understand? "But but but, I'm a Ham radio operator!" I'm sorry, I just keep seeing this same thing over and over and over and I don't buy it. (Along with, since I have a license, I don't need a permit to put up a tower.) Jeff-1.0 wa6vfi |
#10
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Jeffrey D Angus wrote in
: Michael Coslo wrote: Here are some ideas: The old vertical as a flagpole. [ Etc. ] Mind if I play devils advocate here for a minute? Where is it written that as Licensed Amateur Radio Operators we have a fair pass to ignore the rules? Well, we don't really. I only offer advice to those who might have made a mistake. What part of "no antennas" in the CC&R you signed do you not understand? "But but but, I'm a Ham radio operator!" I'm sorry, I just keep seeing this same thing over and over and over and I don't buy it. I think that in most cases, the Ham didn't read the fine print, or they might not have been a Ham when they bought the house. I've been a long term advocate of knowing what you are getting into. I'm one of thos insufferable geeks that irritate the lawyers and other people present by reading over the fine print. I'm a quick reader though - it is 5 to 10 minutes well spent. I even read equipment manuals, heheh. I wouldn't buy a house in a neighborhood that wouldn't allow mw to put up an antenna. But I know that not everyone is so careful - and I don't think that they should be punished forever. I think that the fight to give them access to the airwaves is a good fight. All that being said, who would want to live in those neighborhoods anyway? All we have to do is keep the grass cut, the house in good repair, and no junk cars sitting around. And our neighborhood is a showpiece. My antennas notwithstanding. (Along with, since I have a license, I don't need a permit to put up a tower.) Well now there is a different kettle of fish. A tower can be a major liability. We can have them here, but they must be approved by an engineer. And I agree with that, even if they take the arbitrary "100 percent height fall radius circle". I don't know if any tower has fallen that way. At least I wouldn't have to fight the township just to put one up. - 73 de Mike N3LI - |
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