wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Fri, Oct 27 2006 8:16pm
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
"Chris" wrote in message

How refreshing to find that not one attribute has been forged.

In addition, I have repeatedly stated that each and every mode has
its
advantages and disadvantages.

If you were to compare and contrast all existing modes, it think it is
likely that you would claim that CW is the best mode.

Depends on the conditions. One can construct scenarios where whatever
mode
they favor is the "best".

"CW always gets through..." :-)

"CW always gets through" in only one scenario, and that is a fictitious
K3LT scenario.

Any one striving to be a knowledgeable ham should
be converstant with those scenarios.

...especially in the Newington, CT, area. :-)

Is somebody running for an ARRL office?

If you need an image, SST or fax are
far better modes than CW. The "best" mode depends on the purpose of the
communication and the conditions under which that communication must be
sent.

There is NO separate pass-fail TEST for "image, SST [sic]
or fax" nor for data or voice required by the FCC for an
amateur license. ["SSTV"]

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.

Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!


Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate software.
Once I decided to try the digital thing, I made the interface and was up and
running in an hour. After a couple of months, it became rather boring. On
the other hand, code needs to be learned before it can be tried. Many
people will give up learning before they've had a chance to try it if there
is not a test for it.

PSK will allow 100 WPM data to get through when all the
morsepersons have to use their imaginations to fill in
the garbled morse characters.

Yet PSK fails utterly and completely when there is an aurora. And the
ionospheric problems associated with an aurora cause problems far south of
the actual aurora zone so it is not just a northern issue. The computer may
be sending PSK at 100wpm per minute but the data won't be copyable on the
other end. Even a beginner sending and receiving at 5wpm will have better
throughput. When the aurora is relatively mild, even voice will be more
successful than PSK.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.

Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!

Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate software.

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

Once I decided to try the digital thing, I made the interface and was up and
running in an hour. After a couple of months, it became rather boring.

Do you suppose that there are licensed amateurs that find CW boring?

On
the other hand, code needs to be learned before it can be tried. Many
people will give up learning before they've had a chance to try it if there
is not a test for it.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.

wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.

Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!

Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate
software.

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?


Beats me. But you know what they say. There's the right way, the wrong way
and the Army way. I would not presume to pass judgement on their training.
However it may be that some of the recruits have not yet learned to read a
schematic and have never operated a soldering iron. I'm quite sure that is
not part of basic training.

Once I decided to try the digital thing, I made the interface and was up
and
running in an hour. After a couple of months, it became rather boring.

Do you suppose that there are licensed amateurs that find CW boring?


So what if it is boring. That is no reason not to learn it. I suspected
that digital would end up being boring but since I believe that a person
should be striving to increase their knowledge and skills, I decided it was
time to become familiar with this area. Afterall, I might find myself in
the position of being asked to Elmer someone in this area.

On
the other hand, code needs to be learned before it can be tried. Many
people will give up learning before they've had a chance to try it if
there
is not a test for it.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.


They have different goals and objectives than amateur radio. Government
agencies and commercial business do not have the goal of individual self
training and experimentation. Comparing amateur radio to
government/commercial applications is like comparing apples to pomegranates.
They're both red fruits but there the similarity ends.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...

wrote:

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.

Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!

Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate
software.

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

Beats me. But you know what they say. There's the right way, the wrong way
and the Army way. I would not presume to pass judgement on their training.
However it may be that some of the recruits have not yet learned to read a
schematic and have never operated a soldering iron. I'm quite sure that is
not part of basic training.

What's to know? Follow the little lines, right? And a soldering
pencil is just another appliance.

Once I decided to try the digital thing, I made the interface and was up
and
running in an hour. After a couple of months, it became rather boring.

Do you suppose that there are licensed amateurs that find CW boring?

So what if it is boring. That is no reason not to learn it. I suspected
that digital would end up being boring but since I believe that a person
should be striving to increase their knowledge and skills, I decided it was
time to become familiar with this area. Afterall, I might find myself in
the position of being asked to Elmer someone in this area.

On
the other hand, code needs to be learned before it can be tried. Many
people will give up learning before they've had a chance to try it if
there
is not a test for it.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.

They have different goals and objectives than amateur radio.

Saving lives and property. Highly disimilar from amateur radio.

Government
agencies and commercial business do not have the goal of individual self
training and experimentation. Comparing amateur radio to
government/commercial applications is like comparing apples to pomegranates.
They're both red fruits but there the similarity ends.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

That must be why the GROL exam was lifted from the Amateur Advanced
Exam (minus the amateur rules and CW req't).

wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.
Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!
Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate software.

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.

Oracle uses a lot of code.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

The ONLY separate pass-fail TEST is for manual telegraphy.
Wow! I guess CW is more valued than ALL OF THE OTHER MODES COMBINED!
Not so. However, all the digital and image modes are merely a matter of
connecting the radio to the computer and running the appropriate software.

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.

Always a kind word for our armed forced...

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Lackland. San Antonio.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.

Oracle uses a lot of code.

Dave K8MN

Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.

Always a kind word for our armed forced...

Armed forced?

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career. Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.


Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:

Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?

I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.

Always a kind word for our armed forced...

Armed forced?

Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.


Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Dave K8MN

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
wrote:
Then why do the military service have technical schools to do somehting
so very simple?
I guess it is because of the raw material they have to work with.
Always a kind word for our armed forced...
Armed forced?

Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

I didn't write it. You did.

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

....but one had to at least be a high school graduate to enter the Air
Force. That didn't mean that everyone who entered the Air Force was
particularly bright or had prior experience in a field related to an Air
Force career field. Of those who *were* bright and experienced in a
field, there was no guarantee that they'd be placed in an AFSC related
to their experience. A member of my basic training flight had some
medical school. He became a Security Policeman. A fellow with
electronics skills was made a cook.

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

I don't know anyone who experienced "grave disappointment" or anyone who
has written anything like that.

Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.
Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

I knew it without consulting Wikipedia. If I'd meant "Lackland", I'd
have written "Lackland".

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

So you're asking if I caught stories about the military?

Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.
Oracle uses a lot of code.

Is Oracle an Extra? What's his call?

Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

Bill Gates never gave up on code either.

Dave K8MN

From: on Tues, Oct 31 2006 6:07 pm

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
wrote:


Must you put on your stupid face? Can't you take a typo?

Brian, it's the usual PCTA "answer" in debate. :-)

Lacking any valid response, they resort to misdirective
attempts at personal humiliation about minutae that
have NO direct bearing on the SUBJECT.

Since Heil is bound and determined to find typos and
misspellings, all we have to do is scrutinize HIS
epic prose in here and make him wallow in his own
typographical errors...forever and ever... :-)

Our military isn't perfect. Many of those who enlist aren't all that
sharp. Most are shoved into a career field in which they have no
interest. Most aren't going to make the military a career.

You must be remembering the draft years when, even though the Air Force
didn't use the draft, the draft generated a significant interest in Air
Force service.

That and the USN. The USAF and USN weren't considered
as direct combat military branches by draftees worried
silly about harm to their precious bodies. Back in the
Vietnam War era 33 to 50 years ago, that is.

Some are
lucky enough to have skills obtained prior to military service. Some of
those are fortunate enough to serve in a field in which they have some
expertise or interest.

Some with grave disappointment that they couldn't be hams in particular
combat zones.

Funny thing, but the military doesn't consider amateur
radio "contesting" as a useful skill in maintaining
communications 24/7. Military personnel placement types
MIGHT give such recruits a nod in the direction of some
communications IF (and only IF) there is a directive they
have for a communications specialty.

When I enlisted in the Army, I was assigned to Signal Corps
and Signal Basic Training WITHOUT being a licensed amateur
and hitting only the medium percentile in the morse code
aptitude test! Sunnuvagun! :-)

Oh, yeah, in March 1952 there was a definite WAR going on,
but in northeast Asia, not southeast Asia. The Army had
definite needs for infantry, artillery, and armor
personnel replacements but I was picked for signal. My
only license then was an Illinois driver license. :-)

What we got there in Heil's (altered?) version of his
personal biographic factoids is strangely similar to
the undetailed, grandiose CLAIMS of the former "war
hero of the USMC," Major Dud (Robeson). :-)

No problem on proof for me. I've got my records and some
of them are digitized (PDF for universality in viewing)
from their original form. The official archives in
St. Louis (NARA Military Personnel Records Center) has
them for proof by anyone with access.


Why aren't the communications billets merely a direct duty assignment
after basic training?

They can be. That's how I did it. I never set foot in an Air Force
technical school. Of course I'd already been a radio amateur for seven
years when I joined the military. I was awarded my 3-level right out of
basic training. I went directed duty to Barksdale AFB after ten days of
leave after Amarillo.

Lackland. San Antonio.

Yes, Lackland AFB is in San Antonio. Amarillo AFB was in Amarillo.
That's where I went through basic training. Amarillo. Amarillo.

I see. Wikipedia confirms Amarillo AFB as an inprocessing base.

Did you catch what Robesin's got?

I have no idea of what you mean, Brian.

Stories about the military.

Oh, my, here comes Major Dud Robeson the II. :-)

Since 54 years ago I've been acquainted with (perhaps) hundreds
of military personnel both as one myself and (much longer) as
a civilian. I don't know of ANY military personnel who "DIDN'T"
receive any specialty training after their Basic Training (or
Boot Camp for USN and USMC and USCG).

The USAF signals people have a long tradition of keeping comms
alive and well 24/7 just as the Army did it (USAF came out of
the Army in the later 1940s). "Getting the message through"
at any time of the day or night is the watchword for both USA
and USAF signals. They don't do it the "amateur way" as a
HOBBY.

There IS an exception: AFRS and (later) AFRTS. A Special
Services branch...entertainment (and, supposedly morale)
folks in uniform. Armed Forces Radio (and Television)
Service doesn't operate from combat zones, doesn't even
"fight" for ratings. It is show biz.

MARS might be in the same category as AFRS-AFRTS. It was
never essential to military communications despite the
civilian hoopla attached to it. From the 1990s onward,
MARS has taken on a communications role for most of the US
government...and doing good at that...using military MARS
personnel. With DSN connection to the Internet, the "boys
overseas" don't need to wait for surface mail or use
phone patches to talk direct to family and friends.

But...in Heil's case WE don't really know in DETAIL what
Heil actually did. He hasn't described it in anything but
vague generalities and intimations of work performed. To
use Major Dud Robeson's "description" Heil was "in one
hostile action" action. :-)

Heil sounds off real big, smug and arrogant with "facts."
Thing is, he just doesn't apply those facts factually to
his own (33 to 40 year prior personal history) other than
the usual claims of having "expertise" in amateur radio.
[he sounds like a verbose Blowcode in drag... :-) ]


Whole government agencies gave up on code. Commercial businesses gave
up on code.

Oracle uses a lot of code.

Heil put on his stupid face again. :-( The "code" referred
to by you, by me, is COMPUTER (Instruction) "CODE."

Sigh...more MISDIRECTION into the general "code."


Oracle is a business which didn't give up on code.

Bill Gates has an answer for your Oracle.

Very much so! :-) A few billion bucks here, a few billion
bucks there...might even add up to real money! (paraphrasing
Yogi Berra) [thanks to the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation
for all their many chartitable contributions worldwide!]
I just don't think Bill Gates (or Paul Allen) much give a
**** for morse "code." :-)

I know and use a few high-level COMPUTER codes. I know and
use a few Assembler-level COMPUTER codes. Those just ain't
"morse code." :-) My little Apple ][+ can do a third of
a million "words per second." [based on the average number
of clock cycles per byte-word instruction Ain't NO morseman
that can come close to that. :-)

My current computer box is one helluva lot FASTER than that
1980-era Apple ][+ and goes faster per second with 32-bit
words. My dial-up connection to the Internet (usually 50
KBPS) does about 50,000 "words per minute" just with the
3 KHz bandwidth telephone line. The new set-top cable TV
box we just had installed this morning (has a DVR built-in
plus more cable service channels, all on digital) has an
incredibly high data rate. [our Samsung 27 inch DTV accepts
DTV direct from the new digital service set-top box]

But...we must all "respect and honor" the mighty morse
expertise of the PCTA amateur extras because they think they
typify the "state of the art" in communications mode use.
Greater than 20 "words per minute!" Good grief...

1906 thinking in the year 2006. Ptui.