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Dave Heil · October 30th 06, 01:44 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.

Nice place.
I worked there when Ramo-Wooldridge occupied that facility.
Stouffers ran both the RW and HAC cafeteria, good good food.
Is the Phoenix air-air missle

"Missile", Len. Once is a typo.

considered part of "aerospace?"
I'd say so, and thousands of other engineers would say so.
However, for a missle there is a STRONG interplay between
the tin benders and solder slingers to get an optimum
package with the most bang for its buck...and get it to the
target RELIABLY. HAC has had an excellent record in air-air
misslery, beginning with their first, the GAR-1 and GAR-2
(launched from F-102s, Shrub's NG plane).
Air-air missles...

"Missile", Len. Once is a typo.

...NEED little computers on board along with air data sensors
and control acuators to do their task.

"Actuators", Len.

I might have had some past jobs that made me a 'vassal' but
at Rocketdyne I never had any responsibility for pressure
VESSLES. That was for the smoke-and-fire guys to do. :-)

"Vessels", Len.

By the way, the almost-catastrophy of the Apollo 13 mission
was a LOX tank blowing up in the Service Module. Specifially
it was failure of the LOX stirring thermostate...

"Thermostat", Len.

...within it, a
design responsibility of mechanicals with thermodynamics
specialty. :-) [one of three VESSLES holding LOX in the
Service Module]

"Vessels", Len. Once is a typo.

The point is BEING ABLE TO DO THE JOB, not the number of
diplomas (suitable for framing) on display, or the number
of alphabetic characters one can put after a signature.

Like "IEEE"?

Does anyone NEED a radio license to effectively run,
repair, maintain, calibrate, test a radio transmitter? NO.
The license is a LEGAL requirement. The TEST for any radio
license, amateur or commercial, is ridiculously SIMPLE, and
has NEVER been made complex or comprehensive by the
FCC. It is an AUTHORIZATION by a government agency,
NOT a "qualification". It might as well be a fancy hunting
or fishing license.

You haven't passed an exam for the most basic amateur radio hunting and
fishing license, old timer.

However, the FCC regulations for radio amateurs is strict
on technical performance, a responsibility for EACH
licensee. Can you do any sort of comprehensive test to
insure compliance with the LAW? I can. I could long
before any degree was received.

You don't have to worry about doing so. You aren't involved.

Dave K8MN

an_old_friend · October 30th 06, 01:54 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.
prove postive of 2 thing DX is running poorly tonight and Heil has
nothing worthwhile to say

Dave Heil · October 30th 06, 02:15 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly proficient.
I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest is a recipe for
failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When I first started cw
contesting, I had to listen to the station many times through picking out
their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges before throwing in my
call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to get the balance of the
exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it, that's
sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

Heck no, Leonard. You'd have to first obtain an amateur radio license
in order to worry about amateur radio contesting.

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

Some folks use hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. Some participate
only to work states or countries or grid squares they've never
contacted. Some like to give points to those operating seriously in a
contesting event. Some just like to see if they can't beat the score of
a local friend or to see if they can do better than they did the last year.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't
worry too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license
before you could participate.

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Neither do the regs forbid it. Go figure!

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...
While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and I've
only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is that?
They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they don't use
them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Weird effects? Most of the propagation modes are fairly predictable,
Len. Line of sight varies with altitude above average terrain, with
height of antennas above ground, with gain of antennas used, with power
used and with feedline and preamps used. Enhanced propagation modes
exist commonly. I can regularly contact 6m stations within a several
hundred mile radius. At 2m and 70cm, I can work stations two hundred or
so miles away. With enhanced propagation modes at 2m or 70cm, I've
worked Iowa and Nebraska. I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?

Being a contester does not preclude ragchewing or DXing or traffic handling.

Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)

Yeah. "We" will see. Those of us with amateur radio licenses will
operate under the reg changes. You may read them.

In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Fix up your well equipped home workshop, Len. Get it all set up for
maintenance, repair and calibration. That way, you can go right to it
when and if you ever obtain an amateur radio license.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

Why are *you* worried about it?

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it.

That has long been evident.

The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.

That's incorrect, Leonard. The rest of the world didn't give up the use
or the testing. Some countries gave up testing. In the meantime, if
you'd like to become a radio amateur with HF access here in the U.S. of
A., you'll need to brush up on morse.

Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it.

Neither is amateur radio, Len, for the same reason.

Dave K8MN

Dee Flint · October 30th 06, 02:55 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

[snip]
I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't worry
too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license before
you could participate.

That's for sure Dave. I have worked WP2Z a total of 25 times in 5 years and
I am only a casual contester.

Dee, N8UZE

Dave Heil · October 30th 06, 04:40 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

Dee Flint wrote:
"Dave Heil" wrote in message
ink.net...
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

[snip]
I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)
In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't worry
too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license before
you could participate.

That's for sure Dave. I have worked WP2Z a total of 25 times in 5 years and
I am only a casual contester.

Dee, N8UZE

After a while, Dee, you hit Dayton and other hamfests and you meet some
of these contest ops. I've been working Mike Wetzel W9RE for thirty
years or so in contests. I've known Tim K3LR since he was a teenager.
He and WA3FET designed the Bencher Skyhawk tribander in recent years.

Back in 1990 when I was 9L1US in Sierra Leone, I worked Don Karvonen
K8MFO on ten bands within a 24 hour period (and not in a contest). Don
and I were on Market Reef in 1986.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil · October 30th 06, 04:56 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: on Sat, Oct 28 2006 7:49pm

Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

K3LT, the claimed summa cum laude in human resources
study at some college, claiming he "could get any job
he wanted" in that field after graduation. He became
a bus driver. :-)

Is it that you can't help fulfilling the profile, Len? You see the job
of another as something of which to ridicule.

Anyway, these are the guys who pass judgement on me because I am too
fat, lazy, and stupid to buy into the whole Morse Exam stuff at 5, and
then 13, and then 20 WPM.

The Morsemen are the Masters! :-)

Morsemen are 'superior' beings above us mundanes... :-)

Any radio amateur license holder is superior to you in amateur radio,
Len. :-)

Fifty-three years ago I first fired-up on HF with a
1 KW transmitter running RTTY. My "first" really big
HF transmission. :-)

....and you're *still* jabbering about it. :-)

Didn't get trained in "CW" by the Army, didn't have to
use "CW" to transmit on HF or VHF or UHF for the next
three years...the middle year involving responsibility
of running a team of operators manning 36 to 40
transmitters.

I'd be honked too if I didn't have a chance to familiarize myself with
the mode.

No license required. Perfectly legal.

Yeah, funny how government stations don't have licenses and don't
require operator licenses. Go figure!

Never needed nor used "CW" since on frequencies that
ranged from LF on up to 25 GHz, not even needed on HF
last year in operating an SGC 2020 from a boat in a
marina.

Well, I'll be darned.

But, to do AMATEUR radio operation below 30 MHz, one
*MUST* need to pass a "CW" test!

That's right. That's what the FCC says and, as you've pointed out, the
FCC rules amateur radio in this country.

1906 thinking in the year 2006. Ptui.

Yet despite your feelings, morse testing goes on. Amateur radio goes
on. Morse Code operation goes on. I can almost feel your pain.

Dave K8MN

Dave Heil · October 30th 06, 05:03 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:

...only if Miccolis is developing Alternate Personalities.

He DOES seem to be developing his Major Dud side...emulating
the group's Great [military] Imposter.

Wrap yourself in bunting and tell us a riveting tale of what it is like
to go through an artillery barrage, Len. Did that take place in Japan
during the 1950's? Can your friend Gene confirm it?

Before long he might
be mentioning wives, joining a local CAP, getting his pix in
QRZ. :-)

Brian seems to enjoy writing of Dee's ham husband. You fellows make
quite a team.

Dave K8MN

an_old_friend · October 30th 06, 05:10 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: Dee Flint on Sun, Oct 29 2006 8:48 am

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

No I do not say that all those who learned the code are highly proficient.
I am saying that setting someone up with CWGet for a contest is a recipe for
failure and a very unenjoyable contest experience. When I first started cw
contesting, I had to listen to the station many times through picking out
their call letter by letter over a dozen exchanges before throwing in my
call. I also sent PSE QRS 5 on many occasions to get the balance of the
exchange. But it worked.

If they choose to view as merely a hurdle to pass and never try it, that's
sad but that's their problem.

Never been a problem to me.

Heck no, Leonard. You'd have to first obtain an amateur radio license
in order to worry about amateur radio contesting.
nope

I can't see any personal enjoyment in "contesting," using
kilodollars worth of equipment just to accumulate the most
radio contacts in a short period of time. But, if that's
your Thing, go for it.

Some folks use hundreds of dollars worth of equipment. Some participate
only to work states or countries or grid squares they've never
contacted. Some like to give points to those operating seriously in a
contesting event. Some just like to see if they can't beat the score of
a local friend or to see if they can do better than they did the last year.

I started out in HF radio with the mission of keeping
communications channels open and working 24/7. Not my
thing to hop all over some small band and making
transitory contact with some individual one will probably
never "work" again. I put that on par with being a fan
of "Wheel of Fortune." :-)

In this weekend's CQ Worldwide DX Contest, serious ops likely contacted
the same station on a number of bands. They likely worked most of those
stations on a number of bands last year and the year before. Don't
worry too much about it. You'd have to obtain an amateur radio license
before you could participate.

nope

The FCC has nothing on "contesting," doesn't require it of
any licensee.

Neither do the regs forbid it. Go figure!

but since it is not a requirement it needs are a not a proper basis for
making rules

Then there are the majority of hams who have no-code licenses...
While they have numbers, way too many of them are inactive or have low
activity levels.

You don't hear them so they don't exist?!?

When I work VHF/UHF contests, I sometimes check the call
signs of the people worked. Most are Extras, some are Generals, and I've
only worked ONE Technician. And that's in a voice contest. Why is that?
They have full band privileges and full power privileges yet they don't use
them. Why? Same deal with the grid square hunters. And so on.

Tsk. VHF-UHF is LOS stuff regularly, sometimes "DX" when
there are atmospheric inversion layers for ducting or other
weird effects.

Weird effects? Most of the propagation modes are fairly predictable,
Len. Line of sight varies with altitude above average terrain, with
height of antennas above ground, with gain of antennas used, with power
used and with feedline and preamps used. Enhanced propagation modes
exist commonly. I can regularly contact 6m stations within a several
hundred mile radius. At 2m and 70cm, I can work stations two hundred or
so miles away. With enhanced propagation modes at 2m or 70cm, I've
worked Iowa and Nebraska. I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Did it ever occur to you that OTHER people on ham bands
are NOT really into 'contesting?" Maybe they LIKE to get
to know the other party on a radio circuit?

Being a contester does not preclude ragchewing or DXing or traffic handling.

if you were reading youd understand that the point made is that the
needs of CW Contester do (and should not) drive ARS licensing

or maybe you would not be able to understand that point

Now, if the FCC ever gets the 2004 "Omnibus" R&O published
in the Federal Register, we will see if they bothered to
update the old CCITT document to the current ITU document.

:-)

Yeah. "We" will see. Those of us with amateur radio licenses will
operate under the reg changes. You may read them.

mighty white of of you

In crowded, congested ham bands it would seem mo' bettah
to LEARN how to maintain, repair, calibrate their radios.
The FCC has lots technical requirements on radios which
licensees are REQUIRED to obey.

Fix up your well equipped home workshop, Len. Get it all set up for
maintenance, repair and calibration. That way, you can go right to it
when and if you ever obtain an amateur radio license.

Not to worry. The ready-built designer-manufacturers of
today's ham radios have done all the ADVANCED work for you.
No need to sweat actually LEARNING some beyond-basic
knowledge. Just plug it in and go. You can read the
operating manual as you go along.

Why are *you* worried about it?

he isn't you seem to be

You keep stressing the NEED to do radiotelegraphy. I don't
see it.

That has long been evident.

as has the fact the FCC and ITU don't see it either

The rest of the world isn't stressing any of that
"CW" need...they just gave up on morse code.

That's incorrect, Leonard. The rest of the world didn't give up the use
or the testing. Some countries gave up testing. In the meantime, if
you'd like to become a radio amateur with HF access here in the U.S. of
A., you'll need to brush up on morse.

for while longer yet

Computer programming is NOT for everyone. Some haven't got
the aptitude for it.

Neither is amateur radio, Len, for the same reason.

but that reason has NOTHING to with Morse

Dave K8MN

[email protected] · October 30th 06, 11:12 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

Dave Heil wrote:

I've contacted 67 countries on 6m in the past
six years. They range from the Marshall Islands to Madagascar.

Dave K8MN

And a whole slew of out-of-banders from France.

[email protected] · October 30th 06, 11:26 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

an_old_friend wrote:
Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
From: "Dee Flint" on Sat, Oct 28 2006 10:27pm

wrote in message
Dee Flint wrote:
wrote in message

If you go a bit north of Rocketdyne in Canoga Park, CA, you
would reach Hughes Aircraft Missle Division.

"Missile", Len.

prove postive of 2 thing DX is running poorly tonight and Heil has
nothing worthwhile to say

Heil hasn't said anything worthwhile in this newsgroup for years. But
he wants to run for ARRL office. Perhaps he's found his calling?

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