From: John Smith I on Sat, Dec 30 2006 9:42 pm

Dee Flint wrote:
...
But do you wish to submit a guess?

Dee, N8UZE

Guess? No. Logic? Yes.

There will be a lag in new membership, perhaps numbers will begin a slow
growth--perhaps a rapid jump then a slowing off--hard to tell ...

Everyone doing the guessing is working with OLD paradigms.
There's NEVER been a time when there was NO code test, at
least since 1934. Nobody's been exposed to that kind of
environment/situation...all they've got is the old times
when there was ALWAYS a code test.

Then, all of a sudden, some magazine, or some group like MENSA will pick
it up, or the college crowd will accept it as "being hip", etc., etc.,
anyway, it will catch on--trendy to be a ham. There will be some new
technology which finally begins to trickle into amateur radio and new
designs in the stagnated equipment; then all of a sudden it will spring
full-blown into "being vogue."

That's entirely possible but I'd say Unlikely with a
capital U. Just too many old farts ready to jump in
with the standard "they 'know' what is good for ham
radio!" AS IF. :-) [if they 'already knew' why
didn't they DO something about it?]

But, but, but, the NEW DESIGNS in "stagnated equipment"
have ALREADY HAPPENED, beginning between 30 and 20 years
ago. ALL by manufacturers, generally off-shore...by
Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, JRC. Ten-Tec is struggling to stay
in the market (they are a USA company) but isn't achieving
market dominance at all. Note: W1AW uses Harris
transmitters (a pro user market dominant company).

All them handheld VHF and above radios for the US ham
market were pioneered for commercial and military users,
not hams. [this newsgroup doesn't have regulars who
bother with the world above 30 MHz so they are unfamiliar
with it] [maybe Hans Brakob does...but Hans hasn't been
around much in the last year]

Who knows how, when or where--the important thing is the door now has
been breached. The dead hams fingers have been torn from their death
grips on the hobby. Now, IT CAN HAPPEN!

I'll go with that...but it's been a bit late. When one
American in three had a cellphone subscription (two years
ago according to the Bureau of Census) it is UNlikely
that morsemanship on HF to "talk to foreign lands" is
going to be some catchy, with-it motivation. Ordinary
folk can just dial direct on the telephone system at
lesser cost than paying $2K for a "free" ham station.

We all can help, but who can say who will finally be recognized as the
trigger ...

An ACTOR could begin the publicity. Imagine...a HAM ACTOR!
I can see the ARRL news headlines now...BSEG

Of course, the L.A. area is rather FULL of "ham actors"
who only need AMPAS and SAG "licenses" (actually registry)
to do their "ham" thing. :-)

"There's no business like show business..." :-)

Regards,
LA

wrote:
...

Len:
Everyone doing the guessing is working with OLD paradigms.
There's NEVER been a time when there was NO code test, at
least since 1934. Nobody's been exposed to that kind of
environment/situation...all they've got is the old times
when there was ALWAYS a code test.


Well, since that paragraph is totally composed of logic--hope you don't
expect an argument from me! YEP, pretty much like that alright ...

That's entirely possible but I'd say Unlikely with a
capital U. Just too many old farts ready to jump in
with the standard "they 'know' what is good for ham
radio!" AS IF. :-) [if they 'already knew' why
didn't they DO something about it?]


Again, hope you don't expect an argument from me. Heck, these
newsgroups are full of such and only prove the very point you make here ...

But, but, but, the NEW DESIGNS in "stagnated equipment"
have ALREADY HAPPENED, beginning between 30 and 20 years
ago. ALL by manufacturers, generally off-shore...by
Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, JRC. Ten-Tec is struggling to stay
in the market (they are a USA company) but isn't achieving
market dominance at all. Note: W1AW uses Harris
transmitters (a pro user market dominant company).


Now here, I disagree with you. That is STILL ancient technology,
thinking and design. See that computer in front of you, when you can no
longer tell the difference between that computer and your rig--WELCOME
TO THE NEW MILLENNIUM!!!

All them handheld VHF and above radios for the US ham
market were pioneered for commercial and military users,
not hams. [this newsgroup doesn't have regulars who
bother with the world above 30 MHz so they are unfamiliar
with it] [maybe Hans Brakob does...but Hans hasn't been
around much in the last year]


Again, no argument here ...

I'll go with that...but it's been a bit late. When one
American in three had a cellphone subscription (two years
ago according to the Bureau of Census) it is UNlikely
that morsemanship on HF to "talk to foreign lands" is
going to be some catchy, with-it motivation. Ordinary
folk can just dial direct on the telephone system at
lesser cost than paying $2K for a "free" ham station.


Again, absolutely. However, if ham radio is in vogue, pocket books will
open and the director calls, "ACTION!"

An ACTOR could begin the publicity. Imagine...a HAM ACTOR!
I can see the ARRL news headlines now...BSEG

Of course, the L.A. area is rather FULL of "ham actors"
who only need AMPAS and SAG "licenses" (actually registry)
to do their "ham" thing. :-)

"There's no business like show business..." :-)

Regards,
LA


Len, Len, Len. Most hams are the slowest dimwits I have ever had the
misfortune to participate with. Now don't get me wrong, mixed up in
their senseless mass are a few sheer geniuses, but the ratio is about
(100 dummies)1 bright) and just to find sane hams one has to cope with
the ratio of (10 insane)1 sane).

But then, you already knew that ...

Warmest regards,
JS

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
wrote:
...

Len:
Everyone doing the guessing is working with OLD paradigms.
There's NEVER been a time when there was NO code test, at
least since 1934. Nobody's been exposed to that kind of
environment/situation...all they've got is the old times
when there was ALWAYS a code test.


Well, since that paragraph is totally composed of logic--hope you don't
expect an argument from me! YEP, pretty much like that alright ...

That's entirely possible but I'd say Unlikely with a
capital U. Just too many old farts ready to jump in
with the standard "they 'know' what is good for ham
radio!" AS IF. :-) [if they 'already knew' why
didn't they DO something about it?]


Again, hope you don't expect an argument from me. Heck, these newsgroups
are full of such and only prove the very point you make here ...

But, but, but, the NEW DESIGNS in "stagnated equipment"
have ALREADY HAPPENED, beginning between 30 and 20 years
ago. ALL by manufacturers, generally off-shore...by
Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, JRC. Ten-Tec is struggling to stay
in the market (they are a USA company) but isn't achieving
market dominance at all. Note: W1AW uses Harris
transmitters (a pro user market dominant company).


Now here, I disagree with you. That is STILL ancient technology, thinking
and design. See that computer in front of you, when you can no longer
tell the difference between that computer and your rig--WELCOME TO THE NEW
MILLENNIUM!!!

All them handheld VHF and above radios for the US ham
market were pioneered for commercial and military users,
not hams. [this newsgroup doesn't have regulars who
bother with the world above 30 MHz so they are unfamiliar
with it] [maybe Hans Brakob does...but Hans hasn't been
around much in the last year]


Again, no argument here ...

Too bad. Several of us do quite a bit of work above 30MHz. The strange
thing is other than the repeaters, I seldom find any Technicians out there.


I'll go with that...but it's been a bit late. When one
American in three had a cellphone subscription (two years
ago according to the Bureau of Census) it is UNlikely
that morsemanship on HF to "talk to foreign lands" is
going to be some catchy, with-it motivation. Ordinary
folk can just dial direct on the telephone system at
lesser cost than paying $2K for a "free" ham station.


Again, absolutely. However, if ham radio is in vogue, pocket books will
open and the director calls, "ACTION!"


Anything that depends on being "in vogue" can just as quickly go "out of
vogue". I want people who are interested in amateur radio not a
"fashionable activity".

An ACTOR could begin the publicity. Imagine...a HAM ACTOR!
I can see the ARRL news headlines now...BSEG

Of course, the L.A. area is rather FULL of "ham actors"
who only need AMPAS and SAG "licenses" (actually registry)
to do their "ham" thing. :-)

"There's no business like show business..." :-) Regards,
LA


Len, Len, Len. Most hams are the slowest dimwits I have ever had the
misfortune to participate with. Now don't get me wrong, mixed up in their
senseless mass are a few sheer geniuses, but the ratio is about (100
dummies)1 bright) and just to find sane hams one has to cope with the
ratio of (10 insane)1 sane).

But then, you already knew that ...


That's probably the same ratio as in the rest of the population. Why should
ham radio be any different?

Warmest regards,
JS

Dee, N8UZE

Dee Flint wrote:
...

Too bad. Several of us do quite a bit of work above 30MHz. The strange
thing is other than the repeaters, I seldom find any Technicians out there.


Really, know about spread spectrum? Know anyone to give you some
frequency ring keys? Yanno, there be pirates in those waters bucko!
Perhaps you have noticed a bit more background noise ... ever see any
"strange activity" there, or hear conversations which seem to be spoken
in code? Hear strangely modulated signals?


Anything that depends on being "in vogue" can just as quickly go "out of
vogue". I want people who are interested in amateur radio not a
"fashionable activity".


There ya go! Right close to the real problem now, aren't we. Let me
be blunt--just to make the point hit home ... who gives a damn what Dee
wants? Don't hold yer breath ...


That's probably the same ratio as in the rest of the population. Why should
ham radio be any different?


Because in software engineering the ratios are about backwards to those
found in "amateur radio", because in colleges the ratio is about
backwards to those found in amateur radio ... as a matter of fact, among
all technical minded people that ratio is about backwards to what is
found here--does that provide a clue to what is wrong here? You
beginning to see the matrix?

However, got some damn good brass pounders here! They probably can play
a musical instrument too! Well, at least a kazoo. grin

Regards,
JS

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:
...

Too bad. Several of us do quite a bit of work above 30MHz. The strange
thing is other than the repeaters, I seldom find any Technicians out
there.


Really, know about spread spectrum? Know anyone to give you some
frequency ring keys? Yanno, there be pirates in those waters bucko!
Perhaps you have noticed a bit more background noise ... ever see any
"strange activity" there, or hear conversations which seem to be spoken in
code? Hear strangely modulated signals?


Anything that depends on being "in vogue" can just as quickly go "out of
vogue". I want people who are interested in amateur radio not a
"fashionable activity".


There ya go! Right close to the real problem now, aren't we. Let me be
blunt--just to make the point hit home ... who gives a damn what Dee
wants? Don't hold yer breath ...


Anyone who takes up a hobby because it is "fashionable" to do so will not
cause an enduring growth in amateur radio. It is not an issue of what I
want. It is called facing reality. Fashions come and go. To insure the
long term health of ham radio, we need a sustainable growth pattern not
erratic blips due to people taking it up because it is in vogue.


That's probably the same ratio as in the rest of the population. Why
should ham radio be any different?


Because in software engineering the ratios are about backwards to those
found in "amateur radio", because in colleges the ratio is about backwards
to those found in amateur radio ... as a matter of fact, among all
technical minded people that ratio is about backwards to what is found
here--does that provide a clue to what is wrong here? You beginning to
see the matrix?


Really, I've met just as many idiots in the technical fields as outside of
it. The biggest difference is that those with the degree or working on the
degree seem to feel that means they automatically have a higher IQ. That
just isn't so.

Dee, N8UZE

"Dee Flint" wrote in message
...

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Dee Flint wrote:
...

Too bad. Several of us do quite a bit of work above 30MHz. The
strange
thing is other than the repeaters, I seldom find any Technicians out
there.


Really, know about spread spectrum? Know anyone to give you some
frequency ring keys? Yanno, there be pirates in those waters bucko!
Perhaps you have noticed a bit more background noise ... ever see any
"strange activity" there, or hear conversations which seem to be spoken
in
code? Hear strangely modulated signals?


Anything that depends on being "in vogue" can just as quickly go "out
of
vogue". I want people who are interested in amateur radio not a
"fashionable activity".


There ya go! Right close to the real problem now, aren't we. Let me
be
blunt--just to make the point hit home ... who gives a damn what Dee
wants? Don't hold yer breath ...


Anyone who takes up a hobby because it is "fashionable" to do so will not
cause an enduring growth in amateur radio. It is not an issue of what I
want. It is called facing reality. Fashions come and go. To insure the
long term health of ham radio, we need a sustainable growth pattern not
erratic blips due to people taking it up because it is in vogue.


That's probably the same ratio as in the rest of the population. Why
should ham radio be any different?


Because in software engineering the ratios are about backwards to those
found in "amateur radio", because in colleges the ratio is about
backwards
to those found in amateur radio ... as a matter of fact, among all
technical minded people that ratio is about backwards to what is found
here--does that provide a clue to what is wrong here? You beginning to
see the matrix?


Really, I've met just as many idiots in the technical fields as outside of
it. The biggest difference is that those with the degree or working on
the
degree seem to feel that means they automatically have a higher IQ. That
just isn't so.

Dee, N8UZE

Well said, Dee. Like you, I've met many men and women whose IQ and learning
abilities often far surpass those of the 2.0 grade average college grad who
had to cheat on finals simply to get a "D" average.

John Smith I wrote:
wrote:
...

Len:
Everyone doing the guessing is working with OLD paradigms.
There's NEVER been a time when there was NO code test, at
least since 1934. Nobody's been exposed to that kind of
environment/situation...all they've got is the old times
when there was ALWAYS a code test.

Well, since that paragraph is totally composed of logic--hope you don't
expect an argument from me! YEP, pretty much like that alright ...

Every Mighty Macho Morseman has disagreed with that.
I am "always mistaken." :-)

That's entirely possible but I'd say Unlikely with a
capital U. Just too many old farts ready to jump in
with the standard "they 'know' what is good for ham
radio!" AS IF. :-) [if they 'already knew' why
didn't they DO something about it?]

Again, hope you don't expect an argument from me. Heck, these
newsgroups are full of such and only prove the very point you make here ...

No argument expected, John. I'm probably preaching to
the choir but I'm also rather savoring retribution! evil smirk

But, but, but, the NEW DESIGNS in "stagnated equipment"
have ALREADY HAPPENED, beginning between 30 and 20 years
ago. ALL by manufacturers, generally off-shore...by
Yaesu, Kenwood, Icom, JRC. Ten-Tec is struggling to stay
in the market (they are a USA company) but isn't achieving
market dominance at all. Note: W1AW uses Harris
transmitters (a pro user market dominant company).

Now here, I disagree with you. That is STILL ancient technology,
thinking and design. See that computer in front of you, when you can no
longer tell the difference between that computer and your rig--WELCOME
TO THE NEW MILLENNIUM!!!

Actually, that "computer look-alike" has already been done.
Twice. Maybe three times. Icom has a nice little box whose
control panel is the PC itself.

But...I digress...unlicensed (in the amateur service) are NOT
allowed to observe, conclude, or voice ANY opinion on
ANYTHING in amateur radio! [but, "you knew that" dintya?]

All them handheld VHF and above radios for the US ham
market were pioneered for commercial and military users,
not hams. [this newsgroup doesn't have regulars who
bother with the world above 30 MHz so they are unfamiliar
with it] [maybe Hans Brakob does...but Hans hasn't been
around much in the last year]

Again, no argument here ...

I'll go with that...but it's been a bit late. When one
American in three had a cellphone subscription (two years
ago according to the Bureau of Census) it is UNlikely
that morsemanship on HF to "talk to foreign lands" is
going to be some catchy, with-it motivation. Ordinary
folk can just dial direct on the telephone system at
lesser cost than paying $2K for a "free" ham station.

Again, absolutely. However, if ham radio is in vogue, pocket books will
open and the director calls, "ACTION!"

THAT will be the day. :-)

An ACTOR could begin the publicity. Imagine...a HAM ACTOR!
I can see the ARRL news headlines now...BSEG

Of course, the L.A. area is rather FULL of "ham actors"
who only need AMPAS and SAG "licenses" (actually registry)
to do their "ham" thing. :-)

"There's no business like show business..." :-)

Len, Len, Len. Most hams are the slowest dimwits I have ever had the
misfortune to participate with. Now don't get me wrong, mixed up in
their senseless mass are a few sheer geniuses, but the ratio is about
(100 dummies)1 bright) and just to find sane hams one has to cope with
the ratio of (10 insane)1 sane).

But then, you already knew that ...

Actually, no. I disagree with you. The Mighty Macho Morsemen
have been brainwashed by just about the only publications
group in the USA specializing in amateur radio. [they had
reported (IRS) income of $12.5 million three years ago]

These 3Ms sill think that morsemanship is the end-all, be-all
of "radio operating." Period, full stop. They are stuck in a
time warp to the standards and practices of seven decades
ago, never to advance. shrug

Dummies NO. Just brainwashed.

LA