Brian wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


some snippage


We present more rational, compelling arguments, of course.


Carl, with all due respect, "rational and compelling arguments" are in
the head of the beholder.


Then the words "rational" and "irrational" have no meaning.

1. Everyone here thinks they are being rational, unless they are being
purposefully non-rational. (say Bruce for example, who is having fun
baiting people - and even in his case, take note that when he is
starting to be serious his spelling and grammar become correct)

2. You really aren't that far from the truth.

3. Insane people are exempt from all this. But there really aren't that
many insane people.

My rationale is that what is or isn't rational is based on the starting
assumption or world view.

If your basic assumption is that things should be simplified or to be
made easier, then you would agree with a proposal such as the NCI
proposal before the FCC. It is rational and compelling from that viewpoint.

If you believe that simplification is not necessary or desirable, you
are more likely to find the FISTS proposal rational and compelling.


- Mike KB3EIA -

"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...
It isn't on the FCC's website yet but you can read it here....


http://www.eham.net/articles/6371


Enjoy!


I thought that FISTS sold themselves as a non-political club?

How is sending in a petition a political act? Does that mean when NCI
sent
in a petition it was political? Or perhaps they were simply following
proceedures.

Of course participating in the regulatory process is a "political" thing.

And yes, FIST's position in the past (and IIRC, their charter) was
that they were *not* a politically-oriented group ... just a group that
was supposed to foster the *use* of Morse. And the test is *not*
necessary to use Morse ... someone sending slow as they learn
(voluntarily, because they *want* to) hurts nobody ... even the ARRL
has stated that the best way to learn Morse is on the air. Keeping
people off the air until they learn Morse to some specific level of
proficiency is counter, not just to the ARS as a whole, but to the
*professed* goal of those who want to keep Morse testing. If they'd
welcome folks whether they could beep or not, they'd stand a better
chance of gaining "recruits" than they do by acting crappy to those who
aren't interested in Morse, trying to keep them off of HF, and then
complaining that they don't "realize the benefits of Morse." After that
sort of treatment, no wonder so many folks aren't interested in Morse
(or ham radio for that matter ...)

Carl - wk3c

Please explain to the audience then, how, one can have basically no
knowledge of Morse, then get on the air and try to improve it? You MUST
have a rudimentary knowledge, in otherwords something to work with, before
one can proceed.

I think 5 WPM is a fair requirement.

I think total ellimination is equivilant to negotiations with a terrorist
organization (NCI).

Dan/W4NTI

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Carl R. Stevenson" wrote in message
...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
hlink.net...

"Brian" wrote in message
om...
"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...
It isn't on the FCC's website yet but you can read it here....


http://www.eham.net/articles/6371


Enjoy!


I thought that FISTS sold themselves as a non-political club?

How is sending in a petition a political act? Does that mean when NCI
sent
in a petition it was political? Or perhaps they were simply following
proceedures.

Of course participating in the regulatory process is a "political"
thing.

And yes, FIST's position in the past (and IIRC, their charter) was
that they were *not* a politically-oriented group ... just a group that
was supposed to foster the *use* of Morse.

Right. So where NCI is purposely a politically-oriented group, and
behaves accordingly, FISTS is specifically a non-political group who
is now behaving politically.

Why don't we hear any whining about how FISTS has broken with their
charter from the people that are always whining about NCI?

Usual PCTA double-standard?

Not only a dumb ass, but a knee jerk bleeding heart liberal to boot.

Dan/W4NTI

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
gy.com...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
73 de Jim, N2EY

FISTS #4360


Well just received my FISTS number and it is 10270. My OMs number is
10271.
So you don't need to count them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




Hmmmm, the ASCII format document with just the list copied and pasted into a
MS Word document shows to be 5,193 paragraphs, which would be
members--presuming there is one line/paragraph per member. That list is
labeled as "Active Members."

Kim W5TIT

Mike Coslo wrote in message ...
Brian wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in message ...

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:


some snippage


We present more rational, compelling arguments, of course.


Carl, with all due respect, "rational and compelling arguments" are in
the head of the beholder.


Then the words "rational" and "irrational" have no meaning.

1. Everyone here thinks they are being rational, unless they are being
purposefully non-rational. (say Bruce for example, who is having fun
baiting people - and even in his case, take note that when he is
starting to be serious his spelling and grammar become correct)

Bruce is an stupendous and amazing man.

2. You really aren't that far from the truth.

Oh, geez.

3. Insane people are exempt from all this. But there really aren't that
many insane people.

Not even Hinkley?

My rationale is that what is or isn't rational is based on the starting
assumption or world view.

Always is.

If your basic assumption is that things should be simplified or to be
made easier, then you would agree with a proposal such as the NCI
proposal before the FCC. It is rational and compelling from that viewpoint.

My basic assumption is there are some things the government should be
doing and there are some things that the government shouldn't be
doing.

We could start with the Constitution of the United States and its
Articles, and try to find the rationale for a welfare state.

Brian

"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message thlink.net...

I think total ellimination is equivilant to negotiations with a terrorist
organization (NCI).

Dan/W4NTI

Talk about a dumb ass. He combines Bruce's stupidity with reckless statements.

Talk about a dumb ass. He combines Bruce's stupidity with reckless
statements.


Dumb Ass is someone who lets NCI dictate to them what they can and cant say

(N2EY) wrote in
:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
...

How do you justify a trained group of communicators that are versed
in a mode that is as useful and needed as CW is? There isn't an
emergency right now.

It's especially hard when the emergency management agencies have
no use for a cadre of CW ops ... it's not the type of communications
that they want or need.

KT4ST has shown that to be untrue. However, with all due respect, Carl,
I don't think you'd be the most effective salesman for the mode...

Just as the CW NTS nets are anachronisms ...

What about SSB NTS nets? Are they anachronisms?


Yes! NTS is an anachronism, period. Quaint, perhaps charming, but an
anachronism. Sorry.


A CW NTS net can handle more traffic in less time using less spectrum
than an SSB NTS net. Been there, done that.

73 de Jim, N2EY

On Mon, 01 Sep 2003 19:57:23 GMT, "Carl R. Stevenson"
wrote:


"Dick Carroll;" wrote in message
...

As you may know, FISTS has many times the membership numbers of NCI.

How many *US* licensees are members of FISTS, Dick?

Carl - wk3c

Nearly 10,000.

Not all of them are users of code either. FISTS welcomes anybody,
unlike the NCI where you join "the cause to remove code requirements".

If you prefer to remove the code requirement, no one is forcing you do
unplug your keyer from your radio.

Stacey, AA7YA
FISTS #3857

On Tue, 2 Sep 2003 19:43:55 -0500, "Kim W5TIT"
wrote:

"Dee D. Flint" wrote in message
igy.com...

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
73 de Jim, N2EY

FISTS #4360


Well just received my FISTS number and it is 10270. My OMs number is
10271.
So you don't need to count them.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE




Hmmmm, the ASCII format document with just the list copied and pasted into a
MS Word document shows to be 5,193 paragraphs, which would be
members--presuming there is one line/paragraph per member. That list is
labeled as "Active Members."

Kim W5TIT


It works like 10-X International. I've had a 10-X number for 12
years and have remained "inactive" (non-paid member) for 11 years, but
I can exchange 10-X numbers on the air if I so choose. So reading
from the active list is very misleading.

I am however an active member of the FISTS, as you probably already
gathered from perusing the "Active Members" list.

Stacey, AA7YA