"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message link.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...



Believe it. The top gun rcvrs in those days with even half decent
selectivity were built by Collins and cost 7-8 weeks worth of an
average engineer's entire paychecks. Today much better rcvrs are
available for 10-12 *days* worth of his/her paychecks. Radio kids had
it really miserable, it took me a whole summer to earn enough money to
buy a monumental crapper S-40B rcvr from Sears. Seven QSOs at a time?
No problem! Had the same selectivity characteristics as one of today's
$10-20 throwaway pocket AM/FM broadcast rcvrs. Maybe worse. Ya could
hear a dozen or so stations when the band was really cooking, half
were real signals and the other half were images & intermod products.
Then came the drift . . "Golden Days" my ass . . !



w3rv

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

There's an element of truth in that I guess but there are much younger
ops out there today who are real hotshots and who didn't go thru the
masochistic nonsense us OFs had to put up with.

The biggest benefit I got out of participating in that scene was to
pointedly drive home my need to acquire an education which I could
leverage into a higher than average income. So that I could eventually
afford Collins gear. Which is exactly what I did. Incentives in ham
radio did *not* start with Incentive Licensing in 1968 . . .


Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year license
until 1967, when it became two years.

Had to. You waited 6 months for your license and you couldn't operate
til it arrived.

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna
set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which
bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices
before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making
S-40s,
so what's the solution?

73 de Jim, N2EY

That was the beginning of the 'dumbing down' process. We can thank Dick
Bash for his books on really tearing a hole in the fabric of the service.

Then when Heathkit folded its tent and went away was the final blow to the
golden age of ham radio.

From that point on it has been downhill, more and more bitching and moaning
about the code requirement. Making the test easier....more numbers. etc.
etc.

What is the answer Jim? Danged if I know. But what I do know is I am
going to return to my roots in ham radio. While I can still do so
physically, where gentlemen and ladies still exist and where I feel
welcome. That place is safe from the infringement of morons and clowns.

And you know where that is.

Dan/W4NTI

"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
m...
"Dan/W4NTI" w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com wrote in message
link.net...
"Brian Kelly" wrote in message
om...



Believe it. The top gun rcvrs in those days with even half decent
selectivity were built by Collins and cost 7-8 weeks worth of an
average engineer's entire paychecks. Today much better rcvrs are
available for 10-12 *days* worth of his/her paychecks. Radio kids had
it really miserable, it took me a whole summer to earn enough money to
buy a monumental crapper S-40B rcvr from Sears. Seven QSOs at a time?
No problem! Had the same selectivity characteristics as one of today's
$10-20 throwaway pocket AM/FM broadcast rcvrs. Maybe worse. Ya could
hear a dozen or so stations when the band was really cooking, half
were real signals and the other half were images & intermod products.
Then came the drift . . "Golden Days" my ass . . !



w3rv

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

There's an element of truth in that I guess but there are much younger
ops out there today who are real hotshots and who didn't go thru the
masochistic nonsense us OFs had to put up with.

The biggest benefit I got out of participating in that scene was to
pointedly drive home my need to acquire an education which I could
leverage into a higher than average income. So that I could eventually
afford Collins gear. Which is exactly what I did. Incentives in ham
radio did *not* start with Incentive Licensing in 1968 . . .


Dan/W4NTI


Thats right, my incentive was in 1961 when my mother paid for my ticket to
Pittsburg PA and went along to take my General test.

"We ain't doing this again Danny, you better pass it the first time". I
did. At age 14.

Dan/W4NTI

w3rv

(Brian) wrote in message om...
(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year license
until 1967, when it became two years.

Had to.

Had to what?

You waited 6 months for your license and you couldn't operate
til it arrived.

Six weeks, not six months.

In the time between passing the test and getting the license, I built
my first transmitter and power supply from junk parts and bought a
crystal for it. Hooked up the TR switch and got everything ready.
Already had the receiver and antenna. When the license arrived I was
ready to go.

(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2 years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making S-40s,
so what's the solution?

Merge the Novice and Tech Plus classes into a new class and give the
new class the privileges of both. Along with moving what are now the
HF Novice bands down to the XX.025s with a 100-200W max power out.
Wouldn't hurt anything and it might work.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv

In article t, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator.
It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about
it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna
set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which
bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices
before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making
S-40s,
so what's the solution?

73 de Jim, N2EY

That was the beginning of the 'dumbing down' process. We can thank Dick
Bash for his books on really tearing a hole in the fabric of the service.

Yup. And FCC refused to go after him, even though Phil Kane and others had the
goods on the guy.

Then when Heathkit folded its tent and went away was the final blow to the
golden age of ham radio.

Ikensu killed Heathkit and others. When a TS-520 cost about $600 complete, who
was gonna pay over $500 for an HW-101 and power supply?

From that point on it has been downhill, more and more bitching and moaning
about the code requirement. Making the test easier....more numbers. etc.
etc.

What is the answer Jim?

Comments to the FCC, for one thing. Comments for what we want and against what
we don't. On every petition, proposal, RM, NPRM, NOI or whatever alphabet soup
comes along. ECFS makes it easy. Maybe we won't win but they will not be able
to say there was no opposition.

Setting an example is another. Walk the talk. Build the rigs, put up the
antennas, keep the bands hopping. Write articles for QST and other mags. Give
talks at ham clubs. Do a station on FD for the local club. Etc.

Danged if I know. But what I do know is I am
going to return to my roots in ham radio. While I can still do so
physically, where gentlemen and ladies still exist and where I feel
welcome. That place is safe from the infringement of morons and clowns.

And you know where that is.

Sure. It's a place I never left.

73 de Jim, N2EY

(Brian Kelly) wrote in message . com...
(N2EY) wrote in message ...
In article . net, "Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2 years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and antenna set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew which bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation. They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating practices before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start making S-40s,
so what's the solution?

Merge the Novice and Tech Plus classes into a new class and give the
new class the privileges of both. Along with moving what are now the
HF Novice bands down to the XX.025s with a 100-200W max power out.
Wouldn't hurt anything and it might work.

Sounds good but doesn't go far enough.

How about this:

1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the
names if you don't like them - Third, Second, First, Novice,
General, Extra, whatever)

2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by
license class. Some bands may be split by mode only.
Bottom of each band is CW only, middle is CW/digital, top is
phone/image. Percentage division about 20%/30%/50% (varies with
band). "Digital" includes digital voice modes if bandwidth under
1 kHz.

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs,
procedures, and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure
stuff. Main objective is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics
get 200-50 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power
level is below the point where RF exposure evaluation required).
Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31, RTTY and many of the other
common data modes like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control
ops for repeaters, or club trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF
and about half of HF/MF spectrum, including parts of all
subbands-by-mode. Basic is meant as the entry level. Easy to
get, lots of privs, yet there's still a reason to upgrade.

4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam
on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates
get 300-400 watts on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be
VEs after qualification (see below), control ops for repeaters,
and club trustees. Intermediates get all VHF/UHF and about
three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum. Intermediate requires
at least one year experience as a Basic.

5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on
regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical,
with some regs to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all
privileges, modes, bands, etc. except that Fulls can be VEs
only after qualification (see below). Full license requires
at least one year as an Intermediate.

6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable. No
age requirements or limits.

7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or
six-character calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or
six-character calls. Nobody has to give up an existing callsign.

8) Separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to
Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing
VEs are grandfathered.

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses become Basics,
existing Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and
existing Extras become Fulls. Existing hams can continue to
use their current privileges as long as they retain license
documents showing their old license class.

10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to
upgrade, but their time in existing classes counts.

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is
envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has
reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges.
Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Nobody loses any privileges. There are only
three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't
have more work.

Example of new privileges:

80/75 meters
3500-3575 CW only
3575-3750 CW/data
3750-4000 CW/analog phone/image

Basic: 3525-3625 and 3900-4000
Intermediate: 3525-3750 and 3850-4000
Full: entire band


73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
(Brian Kelly) wrote in message
. com...
(N2EY) wrote in message
...
In article . net,
"Dan/W4NTI"
w4nti@get rid of this mindspring.com writes:

But, I'll bet, if you think about it.....it made you a better
operator. It
was a SKILL you HAD TO LEARN in order to StAY ON THE AIR? Think
about it.

'zactly. No other option. The Novice was not supposed to be a
permanent
license. That's why it had so few privileges and was so focused,

And the old Novice had another feature - it was a one-time one year
license
until 1967, when it became two years. Which meant that you either
upgraded
before the license ran out or you were off the air. The Novice year/2
years was
a big learning time. Lotta incentive!

In fact, one of the reasons FCC gave us incentive licensing was that
they
perceived a drop off in learning after the Novice year.

Most sensible newbies in those times had at least a receiver and
antenna set up
and working before they went for the Novice exam. They'd spent serious
time
listening to hams on the air before ever taking a test. They knew
which bands
were best at various times of day and year simply from observation.
They
developed a lot of operating skills and knowledge of operating
practices before
ever getting a transmitter.

When the Novice became 5 year renewable, that incentive went away.

We're not going to get the mfrs. to stop making IC-706s and start
making S-40s,
so what's the solution?

Merge the Novice and Tech Plus classes into a new class and give the
new class the privileges of both. Along with moving what are now the
HF Novice bands down to the XX.025s with a 100-200W max power out.
Wouldn't hurt anything and it might work.

Sounds good but doesn't go far enough.

How about this:

1) Three classes of license: Basic, Intermediate, Full (change the
names if you don't like them - Third, Second, First, Novice,
General, Extra, whatever)

2) HF/MF bands split into subbands by mode and split again by
license class. Some bands may be split by mode only.
Bottom of each band is CW only, middle is CW/digital, top is
phone/image. Percentage division about 20%/30%/50% (varies with
band). "Digital" includes digital voice modes if bandwidth under
1 kHz.

3) "Basic" license test is simple 20-25 question exam on regs,
procedures, and safety. Very little technical and RF exposure
stuff. Main objective is to keep Basics out of trouble. Basics
get 200-50 watts on HF/MF and 25 watts or so on VHF/UHF (power
level is below the point where RF exposure evaluation required).
Modes are CW, analog voice, PSK31, RTTY and many of the other
common data modes like packet. Basics cannot be VEs, control
ops for repeaters, or club trustees. Basics get most VHF/UHF
and about half of HF/MF spectrum, including parts of all
subbands-by-mode. Basic is meant as the entry level. Easy to
get, lots of privs, yet there's still a reason to upgrade.

4) "Intermediate" license test is more complex 50-60 question exam
on regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Intermediates
get 300-400 watts on all bands, all modes. Intermediates can be
VEs after qualification (see below), control ops for repeaters,
and club trustees. Intermediates get all VHF/UHF and about
three quarters (or more) of HF/MF spectrum. Intermediate requires
at least one year experience as a Basic.

5) "Full" license test is quite complex 100-120 question exam on
regs, procedures, safety and technical stuff. Mostly technical,
with some regs to cover expanded privs. Fulls get all
privileges, modes, bands, etc. except that Fulls can be VEs
only after qualification (see below). Full license requires
at least one year as an Intermediate.

6) All licenses are 10 year and fully renewable/modifiable. No
age requirements or limits.

7) Basics have six-character calls, Intermediates have five- or
six-character calls, and Fulls have four-, five-, or
six-character calls. Nobody has to give up an existing callsign.

8) Separate 30-35 question test for VE qualification, open to
Intermediates and Fulls, which allows them to be VEs. Existing
VEs are grandfathered.

9) Existing Novices, Techs and Tech Pluses become Basics,
existing Generals and Advanceds become Intermediates, and
existing Extras become Fulls. Existing hams can continue to
use their current privileges as long as they retain license
documents showing their old license class.

10) Experience requirement is not waived for existing hams to
upgrade, but their time in existing classes counts.

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is
envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has
reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges.
Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Nobody loses any privileges. There are only
three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't
have more work.

Example of new privileges:

80/75 meters
3500-3575 CW only
3575-3750 CW/data
3750-4000 CW/analog phone/image

Basic: 3525-3625 and 3900-4000
Intermediate: 3525-3750 and 3850-4000
Full: entire band



I like it Jim. I suggested to FCC years ago to go with a 3 tier license
structure. My major difference was to make the diverse modes a 'add on' to
the license. Instead of power restrictions.

Would be a lot easier to regulate that way. Having to test for a 'add on
endorsement' would still maintain the technical aspects of the ARS. And
provide a way of continued learning.

Just a thought.

Dan/W4NTI

73 de Jim, N2EY

(N2EY) wrote in message . com...
.. . . .

End result is a system that is easy to get into (Basic is
envisioned as a 21st century version of the Novice) and has
reasonable but meaningful steps to reach full privileges.
Testing matches the privs granted. Power levels are set about
one S-unit apart. Nobody loses any privileges. There are only
three license classes and four written tests, so FCC doesn't
have more work.

Example of new privileges:

80/75 meters
3500-3575 CW only
3575-3750 CW/data
3750-4000 CW/analog phone/image

Basic: 3525-3625 and 3900-4000
Intermediate: 3525-3750 and 3850-4000
Full: entire band

That's all well and good James and I'd support your basics but what
you're suggesting is a radical, complete top-to-bottom restructuring.
Much more so than any we've seen in the past seventy-some years.
Versus some Band-Aids on what already exists. With the FCC we have
today we'd be lucky to get even a Band-Aid or two let alone a complete
rework of HF ham radio. We're allowed to dream but then comes cold
hard reality.

73 de Jim, N2EY

w3rv