No, we are trying to get you to understand that there are much better ways
to express your argument than by invoking an analogy that offends a large
group of people.

Here's the scenario, should you decide to halt all communication that
offends
some people.

The whole world goes silent from lack of all human communication. WHY?

All advertisements must be taken out of public view, as smoking cigarettes
angers the anti-smoking crowd, meat products anger p.e.t.a.-types, wood
products anger earth first! types, etc;

All books must be taken off the shelves, even the oldest literature offends
some moralists... religious books offend athiests and pagans. Secular
books offend christians, etc.

All music must be taken off the airwaves and recorded music products
must be taken off the shelf... as rap offends those who've been
victimized by violent crime, religious music offends seculars, pagans
and athiests, etc.

Alcohol must be taken off the market to avoid offended MADD.

I could continue this ad nauseum but I think the point is pretty clear.
If YOU want to live in that world, go right ahead and censure everything
you say and carefully make sure you are not going to first offend
everybody. The utopian socialists will LOVE you for it. I, however,
will not. Ever. Are we clear?

Clint
KB5ZHT

If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last
few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy.

Nope.

My intent is to offer a balancing opinion (I am intitled to that..???)
My intent is to offer a bit of modern thinking to oppose the
old gaurd "will not change to the end" crowd. My intent is to
offer proof and evidence to counter emotional bleeding
heart tactics.

If you are upset and annoyed, instead of genuinely inspired to think
further about the issue, then perhaps you should take a good long
look under your bed and make sure that you are operating from
anything less than true, honest feelings and ideas, and not
"I HAD TO DO IT, AND SO SHOULD YOU!!!!" mentality.


He thrives on confrontation,

no, I will just not back down when ganged up on by "you do
as your told and quit questioning your betters & elders!" tactics.

Not intellectual enough to make his
point by rational arguement,

i've done so and supported proof, and got EMOTION and
"feeling" in return instead of logical arguments. The few times
a PCTA type attempted to use a counter argument, it was so
weak and thin I blew holes in it quickly. Of course, soon
the real direct personal character attacks came.... "lazy",
"stupid", "moronic", etc...

now, WHO has the lack of intellect to make a point with a
rational argument?

he resorts to name calling

if THAT isn't the pot calling the kettle black!

And he knows that the "nazi" thing
works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig.

you are correct. It made an excellent analogy that
struck home and made a concept clear. It's called
using examples to support an idea.

try it instead of just dodging the issue or telling
NCTA people to "shut up and do what you're told,
you're lazy, just do it, it's simple, do what we tell
you because only WE know what's best for you!"

You're turn-around tactic won't work on the
rational among us. The ONLY people it will
strike home with and find comfort with is the
small portion of the ham society that makes up
the PCTA crowd, and those people i'm not really
interested in reaching because they are so die-hard
CW testing lovers that they are not reachable.
The ones I am reaching are the other undecideds
out there and the ones that know they do not
have enough information to make thier own
decision and thus look further.

And you guys have done a really good job
of showing that the ONLY one common
basis for keeping the CW test alive is
that YOU had to do it, and it's just plain
not fair if future generations do not have to.

I don't think you won them over, but keep talking;
you're helping MY cause.

thanks!

Clint
KB5ZHT

Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the
killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im.

Heh, you think you've won the race the fact of the matter is you went
to the WRONG race track.

I'm not really looking to you guys as an audience; I am, in fact,
speaking to those out there reading and not posting. Of which there
are more than you can possibly imagine; there are certainly more of
them than the PCTA crowd.

THEY will read my posts. And THEY just saw that YOU cannot
handle debate, you run and hide.

yep, you just hurt your cause a little more.

"we can't discuss the topic with this fellow, so let's just hide from
him!"

Clint
KB5ZHT

Oh, please.... An excellent analogy? No one could possibly believe
that. Not even someone at your level of social comprehension.

You're making this stuff up, right? Pots and kettles? You 'blew holes'
in someone's arguement? It's OK to intentionally use a hateful
'analogy' to prove a point, then are surprised that you got emotion in
return? (well, Duh!)

There's a career waiting for you at the local Comedy Store, my friend!
Jeez....

....ROTFL again!

Leo

PS - I'm helping your cause? I thought that your cause was the
elimination of Morse testing. If you review all of my comments so
far, you'll find that I have never once mentioned Morse testing, pro
or con. You have no idea what my position is on that subject - nice
reading comprehension, my friend.

Unless your cause is to get up on the soapbox and make a fool of
yourself - if that's it, just let me know if you need any more help!


On Mon, 22 Sep 2003 21:15:02 -0500, "Clint" rattlehead at computron
dot net wrote:


If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last
few days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy.

Nope.

My intent is to offer a balancing opinion (I am intitled to that..???)
My intent is to offer a bit of modern thinking to oppose the
old gaurd "will not change to the end" crowd. My intent is to
offer proof and evidence to counter emotional bleeding
heart tactics.

If you are upset and annoyed, instead of genuinely inspired to think
further about the issue, then perhaps you should take a good long
look under your bed and make sure that you are operating from
anything less than true, honest feelings and ideas, and not
"I HAD TO DO IT, AND SO SHOULD YOU!!!!" mentality.


He thrives on confrontation,

no, I will just not back down when ganged up on by "you do
as your told and quit questioning your betters & elders!" tactics.

Not intellectual enough to make his
point by rational arguement,

i've done so and supported proof, and got EMOTION and
"feeling" in return instead of logical arguments. The few times
a PCTA type attempted to use a counter argument, it was so
weak and thin I blew holes in it quickly. Of course, soon
the real direct personal character attacks came.... "lazy",
"stupid", "moronic", etc...

now, WHO has the lack of intellect to make a point with a
rational argument?

he resorts to name calling

if THAT isn't the pot calling the kettle black!

And he knows that the "nazi" thing
works - so he keeps on with it - it's his gig.

you are correct. It made an excellent analogy that
struck home and made a concept clear. It's called
using examples to support an idea.

try it instead of just dodging the issue or telling
NCTA people to "shut up and do what you're told,
you're lazy, just do it, it's simple, do what we tell
you because only WE know what's best for you!"

You're turn-around tactic won't work on the
rational among us. The ONLY people it will
strike home with and find comfort with is the
small portion of the ham society that makes up
the PCTA crowd, and those people i'm not really
interested in reaching because they are so die-hard
CW testing lovers that they are not reachable.
The ones I am reaching are the other undecideds
out there and the ones that know they do not
have enough information to make thier own
decision and thus look further.

And you guys have done a really good job
of showing that the ONLY one common
basis for keeping the CW test alive is
that YOU had to do it, and it's just plain
not fair if future generations do not have to.

I don't think you won them over, but keep talking;
you're helping MY cause.

thanks!

Clint
KB5ZHT

"Arnie Macy" wrote in message
...
"Dee D. Flint" wrote ...

Well he says that he has visited and studied this and it doesn't change
his
point of view. So now that I've completed the discussion on the call
signs,
I'm going to put him in my killfile along with Len 0ver 21.
__________________________________________________ __________________

I really hate to see you do that. I killfiled Len for about a year, and
in
the process, missed many a good laughs. But, as I said in another
reply --
just might have to be done.

73,

Arnie -
KT4ST

I do it in self preservation. It can be hard to resist responding to either
one of them when they make such idiotic statements. I'd rather use my time
in talking to more rational people.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

the process, missed many a good laughs. But, as I said in another
reply --
just might have to be done.


Yet another old guard staunch reactionary that just CANNOT
debate an idea and gets mad and runs and hides as a ostrich does
it's head in the sand when a differing opinion is given.

It's a good thing you guys aren't actual elected representatives
who make law.

Clint
KB5ZHT

Dee,

Excellent point. I was going for the latter - sound is best defined
as vibrations detected by the ear. Vibrations are of course created
by the trww falling, but remain only vibrations until the ear receives
them. As I understand it, anyway.

And the tree, both the one that made the sound and the metaphoric
'tree' referred to in the posting is very much still there!

73, Leo

On Tue, 23 Sep 2003 23:06:30 GMT, "Dee D. Flint"
wrote:


"Leo" wrote in message
.. .
Oops - missed that one! I was playing on the old "if a tree falls in
the woods, and no one hears, does it make a sound?" riddle.

You are absolutely correct - there is no sound, but the tree is still
there all right

Good one - thanks, Dick!

73, Leo


You've got to define sound first. For example if you simply define it as
waveforms in the air, then yes it does make a sound. However if you define
it as the result when waveforms in the air are converted to a form that can
be interpreted by the brain, then it doesn't make a sound.

Either way though you are right that the tree is still there.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

Arnie Macy wrote:

"Leo" wrote ...

If you review this individual's posts on this subject over the last few
days, a trend becomes obvious - his intent IS to upset and annoy. He
thrives on confrontation, and really gets going when he hits a nerve with
one of his readers. Not intellectual enough to make his point by rational
arguement, he resorts to name calling and other juvenile tactics to 'get his
way'. And he knows that the "nazi" thing works - so he keeps on with it -
it's his gig.

Convincing people like this to change is analogous to trying to teach a pig
to sing - no matter how hard you try, it ain't gonna happen - you'll only
annoy the pig....

Best tactic for handling this guy - Dee has it absolutely right, use the
killfile. If there's no audience, there'll be no idiot! Plonk 'im.
__________________________________________________ _______________

Leo,

I completely agree with your points. I just hate to "plonk" him. I did
that to Len for about a year and missed many laughs. But, at the end of the
day, it might have to be done.

Or you could try an excercise in "skin toughening", Arnie (don't take
it as an insult, I've done the same thing) It is an amazingly empowering
thing when you can read some of the merde posted by someone that thrives
on confrontation and provocation, knowing that they are failing to
achieve their goal with you. After the first few ignored posts, it's fun.

- Mike KB3EIA -

"Mike Coslo" wrote ...

Or you could try an excercise in "skin toughening", Arnie (don't take it as
an insult, I've done the same thing) It is an amazingly empowering thing
when you can read some of the merde posted by someone that thrives on
confrontation and provocation, knowing that they are failing to achieve
their goal with you. After the first few ignored posts, it's fun.
__________________________________________________ ______________

Actually, I don't worry about the personal insults at all. I find most of
them laughable. But, I guess each of us has that *one* thing that bugs
them. Given my family history, for me *that's* it. But you are right,
ignoring them will tend to make them go away and deprive them of the
satisfaction. Thanks for the advice. It is well received.

Arnie -
KT4ST

"Clint" wrote ...

EXCELLENT way to attract people to your cause... for those of you
undecideds on the topic reading, here is yet ANOTHER soul that dearly loves
the continued use of morse code testing requirements for obtaining a
license, but cannot debate the matter openly and instead chooses to outright
IGNORE people who want to present an opposing view. Like about 4 or 5 others
in here that are of his ilk, he proverbially pulls the covers over his head
when controversy is presented to him, when debate is offered on a topic.
__________________________________________________ __________________

Clint,

You *do* know the difference between a male and a female, right? Just
checking.

Arnie -
KT4ST