"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Kim W5TIT wrote:

a whole bunch snipped

Well, as I've been doing this more and more over the past 5-6 months or
so,
I am also noticing that there are others doing this. I don't know that
it's
always been done by others and I've just never noticed, but I notice
that
there *are* others who are doing it. I am refreshed by that. I am
tired of
always being the friendly, patient, kind one--just to keep getting
stepped
on by the creeps...

Well, we can all react to the world as we wish. I find that a rude
reaction to rudity just validates all the rudity. Of course we can't be
all well mannered all the time, but IMO, its best to try. Grace is a
habit. And the best revenge is living well.

Illegitemi non Carborundum!


Yeah....well, my years of Grace ain't done a damned thing to correct a
thing. So, I am tired of being "correct."

Kim W5TIT

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim W5TIT"

writes:

Hmmm, not only no, but hell no. I can be treaded on all "they" want.
I've
declared war on the road, tell ya that. I travel a good number of miles
to
work. And, it's so bad "out there" that when I do 70-75 (in a 60 zone),
there will be creeps that pull up behind me and start this moving to the
left so they're on the shoulder and can see the traffic around the front
of
me; or flashing their headlights so I'll move outta "their" way; or
pulling
up so close that all I see of their lights behind me is a halo because
they're only about 2' distance from my rear bumper.

What lane are you in when they do this?


The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the "break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people doing
just that. The argument is along the lines that this is the lane where, if
someone needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around them; or, this is the
lane where if the majority of drivers wants to go a little faster than the
flow of traffic, they do it there! There's more validations, but that's the
gist of it...!!

Note that I let you know that I am already speeding, as it is. Up to about
15 MPH over the posted speed.


Or, they'll do the
ultimate stupidity and pass then pull into the spot that I have created
in
front of me so that they can start leapfrogging from one lane to the
next.
Well, used to be I'd move. No more. I sit right there. And, they still
go
around but now I creep up just ever so slightly (still maintain a safe
distance from the vehicle in front of me) and see if they'll still dare
slide in. Well, sometimes they do. So, since they've usually been
behind
me flashing their headlights, I'll go the lazy man's route and just leave
mine on high beam--and I've got some bright lights.

And if an accident occurs, you'll hit them, and the judgement may be that
it
was *your* fault!


I hope I've got enough leverage between them and me. I prefer, and usually
can manage to, approx. 6 or more carlengths in front of me. More if I can
maintain it, but that's hard.


I go on the "Duel" philosophy (from the old TV movie by Speilberg): I'd
rather
have a nutcase driver in front of me, where I can watch him/her, than
behind
me. I've actually pulled over and let 'em go by rather than have them
follow
me.


Know what happens here? If one is cautiously staying behind a fruitcake
driver, all the hurry-up-and-get-me-knowwhere nitiwits start passing like
they are the charging brigade--never taking just a moment to see what they
are pulling up on (a very dangerous situation with a driver ahead way too
close to the vehicle in front of them) or someone who's been doing a bit of
weaving; or whatever. So, depending upon the situation, letting this person
stay in front instead of taking the first opportunity to get around them,
can be more hazardous.


Then, there's the folks in the store. You'll know who I'm talking about
here. The folks who walk up behind you and have a couple of things in
their
hands and start practically doing calisthenics (sp) to careen in front of
you so you'll see they only have a couple of things and let them go
ahead.

I haven't encountered that yet. Must be a Texas thing...


Wow. Really? Maybe I just need to move. This is so commonplace down here,
you're considered the idiot if you don't let these folks get ahead.


Used to do that, too. No more. It's my turn dammit and they can wait.
Now, don't get me wrong: if I happen to turn to one side or the other and
I
notice someone patiently waiting their turn, I let them go ahead. But
these
creeps who think that they are entitled to getting around just because th
ey
are far more important than anyone else...nope, not doin' it any more.
And,
depending upon how showy they are about how important they are is how
slow I
am to slowly unload my cart, slowly find my checkbook, confirm the price
however many times it needs confirming, very carefully write my check,
etc.

I use a different approach completely in stores. I call it the CQT
(Cuteness
Queueing Theory) method. Works like this:

Whenever you're in a store that has two or more checkout lines, choose
which
line to be in by how attractive/cute/sexy/whatever the checkout person is.
Doesn't matter how long the line is - get in the line with the checkout
person
you find most attractive. For some reason, that line always seems to move
the
fastest.


Now, Jim. Forgive me for being non-male here, but I don't generally find
myself "checking out" at the check out. GRIN



Or, the teeny-bopper eh-heh couple that thinks everyone wants to see them
practically making love in public. If we are all in a line at a store or
something and I see another person who is as dismayed by this as me, I'll
say something like, "thank goodness for birth control." The other person
will usually say something back (having just *waited* for the
opportunity)
like, "doesn't look like they use it." Or some such thing. For some
reason, *that* is when these creeps get embarrassed.

I like that! Here's another, copied from the "Seinfeld" episode, but you
have
to be with your SO to do it. Simply start talking all sweet to each other
(the
episode had Jerry and his girlfriend calling each other "schmoopie").
Folks of
our age look ancient to many kids that age, and when we behave that way it
drives them nuts. Of course, it takes some discipline to keep a straight
face
while calling each other "Bunny" and "Huggybear" and such, plus you hafta
have
the right person with you to do it at all.


Hey, now. I like that one!! My darlin' would never do that, though. He's
still in the phase that he puts up with this stuff and then crabs about it
later--the phase I used to be in. BUT, it'd be neat to get in line with one
of my girlfriends and start acting gay! If I get the courage to do that,
and have one of my girlfriends who'll join in, I'll have to let you know how
it turns out. I love that scene in "Ghost" with (was it?) Meg Ryan
simulating an orgasm at the restaraunt table! I cracked up.


Then, there's what I call the "buddy" creeps. The philosophy is to shop
in
pairs and have one stand in line while the other keeps going back and
getting things that were "forgotten." And, the one standing in line will
keep turning and saying please excuse us...giggle. I used to just
throw a
fake smile. Not any more. Now I say, "no, I won't excuse you, you are
holding all of us up here and it's rude and inconsiderate of you."

I don't mind a thing or two, but after that it's a different story.


I've gotten disgusted enough with all this crappy behavior that no one gets
the benefit of the doubt anymore, either. And, it's not just me. I've
talked to folks at the office and they are all the same way. In fact, we've
all forgiven each other for our behavior ahead of time...;o


And restaurants. Oh my goodness how many times have you been at an
eatery,
only to have some creep's misbehaving little future creep keep popping up
over the booth seat to let out a shrill of a scream with laughter right
behind--over and over and over again...or let the little tyrant run
rampant
while the beautiful couple (yeah right) sits and eats in peace while
their
monster runs to every table standing there like you're supposed to
applaud
them or something. I used to grin and bear that, too. Now, I get up,
and
I'll actually say something to the parents about how disruptive their
"child" (term used loosely) is being to everyone else's table--so can I
sit
at theirs. That one there gets real sneers. Ask me if I care. They
don't,
I ain't gonna.

Fortunately I haven't run into that very much. Yet.


Yeah, I tried to take my parents out to a very nice dinner and there was one
of these kids in the "booth" (yeah, I know...a booth at a nice restaraunt,
go figure) next to us. Well, this kid was directly behind my parents.
After about the 3rd or 4th time the kid kept doing this, I became the
obnoxious one. I kept saying, "SIR!" over and over again until the dad, who
was trying his hardest to ignore me, looked at me and I said, "could you
keep your kid reigned in? We are trying to have a family dinner ourselves
over here." Well, these folks were so offended that they demonstratively
got up, and abruptly left. As they were walking away I thanked them. I
hope they talk about that for the next 20 years.


Well, as I've been doing this more and more over the past 5-6 months or
so,
I am also noticing that there are others doing this. I don't know that
it's
always been done by others and I've just never noticed, but I notice that
there *are* others who are doing it. I am refreshed by that. I am tired
of
always being the friendly, patient, kind one--just to keep getting
stepped
on by the creeps...

Maybe we've all had it... grin

One can be assertive without being nasty, though.

It sure sounds like people are in one heck of a hurry down there,
though...

73 de Jim, N2EY


Yes. They are. And, while my behavior is not "forgiveable," I am no where
as nasty as these folks are being.

Kim W5TIT

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...
"Mike Coslo" wrote in message
et...
Kim W5TIT wrote:

a whole bunch snipped

Well, as I've been doing this more and more over the past 5-6 months
or
so,
I am also noticing that there are others doing this. I don't know
that
it's
always been done by others and I've just never noticed, but I notice
that
there *are* others who are doing it. I am refreshed by that. I am
tired of
always being the friendly, patient, kind one--just to keep getting
stepped
on by the creeps...

Well, we can all react to the world as we wish. I find that a rude
reaction to rudity just validates all the rudity. Of course we can't be
all well mannered all the time, but IMO, its best to try. Grace is a
habit. And the best revenge is living well.

Illegitemi non Carborundum!


Yeah....well, my years of Grace ain't done a damned thing to correct a
thing. So, I am tired of being "correct."

Kim W5TIT

You cannot know that. One kind or encouraging word could have changed the
direction of someone's life and you would never know it. If even a single
person has been inspired by any word or act of mine, then I have indeed had
an impact on the world.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Kim W5TIT" wrote in message
...

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the
"break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people doing
just that. The argument is along the lines that this is the lane where,
if
someone needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around them; or, this is
the
lane where if the majority of drivers wants to go a little faster than the
flow of traffic, they do it there! There's more validations, but that's
the
gist of it...!!

Note that I let you know that I am already speeding, as it is. Up to
about
15 MPH over the posted speed.



It just goes to show the exams for a driver's license are not tough enough.

The "going over the speed limit to complete passing" applies ONLY to TWO
lane highways not multi-lane highways. Some states don't even allow that.
In those states, if you can't safely pass and stay within the speed limit,
you aren't supposed to pass at all.

According to state laws, the speed limit is the maximum that one is supposed
to drive even in the "fast lane" with the exception of passing on a TWO
lane highway in some states.

Dee D. Flint, N8UZE

"Kim W5TIT" wrote:

Maybe we've all had it... grin


Well, did you get it all out of your system? Is there anyone else you
missed? :-)


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

"Dee D. Flint" wrote:
"Kim W5TIT" writes:

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny
thing is, if you mention to people at the office or
wherever, that it doesn't mean the "break the
speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations
for people doing just that. The argument is along
the lines that this is the lane where, if someone
needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around
them; or, this is the lane where if the majority of
drivers wants to go a little faster than the flow of
traffic, they do it there! (snip)


It just goes to show the exams for a driver's license
are not tough enough.

The "going over the speed limit to complete passing"
applies ONLY to TWO lane highways not multi-lane
highways. Some states don't even allow that. In
those states, if you can't safely pass and stay within
the speed limit, you aren't supposed to pass at all.

According to state laws, the speed limit is the
maximum that one is supposed to drive even in the
"fast lane" with the exception of passing on a TWO
lane highway in some states.


However, in most states, the laws also say slower traffic on multi-lane
highways must move to the right lane to allow others to pass. There are
usually no exceptions to those laws, such as not moving over for speeders.
It is law enforcement's job to enforce the speed limits, not other drivers.
Vehicles impeding other traffic, causing traffic jams and others to take
risks to pass the slower vehicle, is a very common cause of accidents on
multi-lane highways.

In Europe, it's routine to see maximum and minimum speed limits for each
lane of a multi-lane highway. In some countries, you can often get a ticket
faster for going too slow rather than too fast. They also have the
requirement to move to the right to allow faster vehicles to pass. The
general idea of all this is to prevent accidents by keeping traffic in each
lane flowing smoothly, without excessive congestions (crowding) behind
slower moving vehicles.


Dwight Stewart (W5NET)

http://www.qsl.net/w5net/

In article , "Kim"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim "

writes:

Hmmm, not only no, but hell no. I can be treaded on all "they" want.
I've declared war on the road, tell ya that. I travel a good number of
miles
to work.

By your own choice.

And, it's so bad "out there" that when I do 70-75 (in a 60 zone),
there will be creeps that pull up behind me and start this moving to the
left so they're on the shoulder and can see the traffic around the front
of me; or flashing their headlights so I'll move outta "their" way; or
pulling
up so close that all I see of their lights behind me is a halo because
they're only about 2' distance from my rear bumper.

What lane are you in when they do this?

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the "break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people doing
just that.

But you're already speeding, Kim. And not by an amount that can be
explained by the usual inaccuraccies and imperfections of speedometers.

Yet your getting ticked off because someone wants to go even faster.

The argument is along the lines that this is the lane where, if
someone needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around them;

Ah - but why does someone *need* to pass?

As Dee points out, on a two-lane, two direction road, it may be necessary to
go fast to get out of a tough passing situation. But on a multilane divided
highway where traffic is already zooming at the speed limit or above, why does
anyone not in a life-and-death emergency situation *need* to pass?

or, this is the
lane where if the majority of drivers wants to go a little faster than the
flow of traffic, they do it there! There's more validations, but that's the
gist of it...!!

And they take the risk of being fined, or worse.

Note that I let you know that I am already speeding, as it is. Up to about
15 MPH over the posted speed.

Right.

So you have justified such speeding to yourself, even though it violates the
law. The person behind you who wants to go 20-25 MPH over the limit has
almost certainly justified their behavior to him/herself, even though it also
violates the law.

Or, they'll do the
ultimate stupidity and pass then pull into the spot that I have created
in
front of me so that they can start leapfrogging from one lane to the
next.
Well, used to be I'd move. No more. I sit right there. And, they still
go
around but now I creep up just ever so slightly (still maintain a safe
distance from the vehicle in front of me) and see if they'll still dare
slide in. Well, sometimes they do. So, since they've usually been
behind
me flashing their headlights, I'll go the lazy man's route and just leave
mine on high beam--and I've got some bright lights.

And if an accident occurs, you'll hit them, and the judgement may be that
it was *your* fault!

I hope I've got enough leverage between them and me.

I hope so too, but if they don't, you might be in a bad spot. Particularly if
someone dies or is seriously injured. Try arguing your high beams at a
graveside....

I prefer, and usually
can manage to, approx. 6 or more carlengths in front of me. More if I can
maintain it, but that's hard.

That's good.

I go on the "Duel" philosophy (from the old TV movie by Speilberg): I'd
rather
have a nutcase driver in front of me, where I can watch him/her, than
behind
me. I've actually pulled over and let 'em go by rather than have them
follow me.

Know what happens here? If one is cautiously staying behind a fruitcake
driver, all the hurry-up-and-get-me-knowwhere nitiwits start passing like
they are the charging brigade--never taking just a moment to see what they
are pulling up on (a very dangerous situation with a driver ahead way too
close to the vehicle in front of them) or someone who's been doing a bit of
weaving; or whatever. So, depending upon the situation, letting this person
stay in front instead of taking the first opportunity to get around them,
can be more hazardous.

I disagree. I simply pull over and let the whacko get farther ahead. Miles, if
necessary. At 60 MPH, one minute of delay buys me a mile of space. I can spare
that minute.

Then, there's the folks in the store. You'll know who I'm talking about
here. The folks who walk up behind you and have a couple of things in
their
hands and start practically doing calisthenics (sp) to careen in front of
you so you'll see they only have a couple of things and let them go
ahead.

I haven't encountered that yet. Must be a Texas thing...

Wow. Really?

Honest. Stores here mostly have express lanes (10 items or less) - some have
two or even three levels of express (8 items or less, 15 items or less, etc.).
And they enforce the item count.

Maybe I just need to move. This is so commonplace down here,
you're considered the idiot if you don't let these folks get ahead.

I've never encountered that sort of behavior. Line discipline/courtesy around
here is really very good, even around the holidays. Maybe it *is* a regional
thing.

Used to do that, too. No more. It's my turn dammit and they can wait.
Now, don't get me wrong: if I happen to turn to one side or the other and
I
notice someone patiently waiting their turn, I let them go ahead. But
these
creeps who think that they are entitled to getting around just because th
ey
are far more important than anyone else...nope, not doin' it any more.
And,
depending upon how showy they are about how important they are is how
slow I
am to slowly unload my cart, slowly find my checkbook, confirm the price
however many times it needs confirming, very carefully write my check,
etc.

Passive aggressive behavior, IOW.

I use a different approach completely in stores. I call it the CQT
(Cuteness Queueing Theory) method. Works like this:

Whenever you're in a store that has two or more checkout lines, choose
which
line to be in by how attractive/cute/sexy/whatever the checkout person is.
Doesn't matter how long the line is - get in the line with the checkout
person
you find most attractive. For some reason, that line always seems to move
the fastest.

It may not be the fastest, but it sure seems that way!

Now, Jim. Forgive me for being non-male here, but I don't generally find
myself "checking out" at the check out. GRIN

Try it. Enjoy the scenery. Why not? And remember, the criteria of
attractiveness is yours alone.

Or, the teeny-bopper eh-heh couple that thinks everyone wants to see them
practically making love in public. If we are all in a line at a store or
something and I see another person who is as dismayed by this as me, I'll
say something like, "thank goodness for birth control." The other person
will usually say something back (having just *waited* for the
opportunity)
like, "doesn't look like they use it." Or some such thing. For some
reason, *that* is when these creeps get embarrassed.

I like that! Here's another, copied from the "Seinfeld" episode, but you
have
to be with your SO to do it. Simply start talking all sweet to each other
(the
episode had Jerry and his girlfriend calling each other "schmoopie").
Folks of
our age look ancient to many kids that age, and when we behave that way it
drives them nuts. Of course, it takes some discipline to keep a straight
face
while calling each other "Bunny" and "Huggybear" and such, plus you hafta
have the right person with you to do it at all.

"Snookums" causes wide-area gagging and retching if done right.

Hey, now. I like that one!! My darlin' would never do that, though.

Doesn't have to be your spouse...

He's
still in the phase that he puts up with this stuff and then crabs about it
later--the phase I used to be in. BUT, it'd be neat to get in line with one
of my girlfriends and start acting gay!

"Not that there's anyhting wrong with that!" (also from Seinfeld)

If I get the courage to do that,
and have one of my girlfriends who'll join in, I'll have to let you know how
it turns out.

bwaahaahaa

I love that scene in "Ghost" with (was it?) Meg Ryan
simulating an orgasm at the restaraunt table! I cracked up.

That was Meg Ryan and Billy Crystal in "When Harry Met Sally". He had said she
couldn't convincingly fake it.

The topper to her performance was the little old lady (played by the director's
real-life mom) who said "I'll have what she's having"...

There was also a Seinfeld about faking....


Then, there's what I call the "buddy" creeps. The philosophy is to shop
in
pairs and have one stand in line while the other keeps going back and
getting things that were "forgotten." And, the one standing in line will
keep turning and saying please excuse us...giggle. I used to just
throw a
fake smile. Not any more. Now I say, "no, I won't excuse you, you are
holding all of us up here and it's rude and inconsiderate of you."

I don't mind a thing or two, but after that it's a different story.

Such shenanigans are unknown around here. I've seen people one cart from the
belt pull out of line and go to the rear because they forgot something.

I've gotten disgusted enough with all this crappy behavior that no one gets
the benefit of the doubt anymore, either. And, it's not just me. I've
talked to folks at the office and they are all the same way. In fact, we've
all forgiven each other for our behavior ahead of time...;o

The problem is that your anger makes *you* miserable.

And restaurants. Oh my goodness how many times have you been at an
eatery,
only to have some creep's misbehaving little future creep keep popping up
over the booth seat to let out a shrill of a scream with laughter right
behind--over and over and over again...or let the little tyrant run
rampant
while the beautiful couple (yeah right) sits and eats in peace while
their
monster runs to every table standing there like you're supposed to
applaud
them or something. I used to grin and bear that, too. Now, I get up,
and
I'll actually say something to the parents about how disruptive their
"child" (term used loosely) is being to everyone else's table--so can I
sit
at theirs. That one there gets real sneers. Ask me if I care. They
don't, I ain't gonna.

Fortunately I haven't run into that very much. Yet.

Yeah, I tried to take my parents out to a very nice dinner and there was one
of these kids in the "booth" (yeah, I know...a booth at a nice restaraunt,
go figure) next to us. Well, this kid was directly behind my parents.
After about the 3rd or 4th time the kid kept doing this, I became the
obnoxious one. I kept saying, "SIR!" over and over again until the dad, who
was trying his hardest to ignore me, looked at me and I said, "could you
keep your kid reigned in? We are trying to have a family dinner ourselves
over here." Well, these folks were so offended that they demonstratively
got up, and abruptly left. As they were walking away I thanked them. I
hope they talk about that for the next 20 years.

That was a pretty good example of being assertive, I think.

Well, as I've been doing this more and more over the past 5-6 months or
so,
I am also noticing that there are others doing this. I don't know that
it's
always been done by others and I've just never noticed, but I notice that
there *are* others who are doing it. I am refreshed by that. I am tired
of
always being the friendly, patient, kind one--just to keep getting
stepped on by the creeps...

Maybe we've all had it... grin

One can be assertive without being nasty, though.

It sure sounds like people are in one heck of a hurry down there,
though...

Yes. They are.

I wonder why?

And, while my behavior is not "forgiveable," I am no where
as nasty as these folks are being.

Isn't that an entirely subjective judgement?

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim "

writes:

Hmmm, not only no, but hell no. I can be treaded on all "they" want.
I've declared war on the road, tell ya that. I travel a good number
of
miles
to work.

By your own choice.


Didn't make the point because I don't like the drive. I made the point to
illustrate that I have a lot of exposure to the topic I was going to post
about.


What lane are you in when they do this?

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the
"break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people doing
just that.

But you're already speeding, Kim. And not by an amount that can be
explained by the usual inaccuraccies and imperfections of speedometers.

Yet your getting ticked off because someone wants to go even faster.


Nope. Not at all. I am ticked because they think I should move for them.
I am already going faster than the posted speed is my point. Why should
someone expect me to move if I am already going faster than I should be?


The argument is along the lines that this is the lane where, if
someone needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around them;

Ah - but why does someone *need* to pass?


That's the proverbial 60 million dollar question--and yes, why does someone
*need* to pass someone else who's already speeding?


As Dee points out, on a two-lane, two direction road, it may be necessary
to
go fast to get out of a tough passing situation. But on a multilane
divided
highway where traffic is already zooming at the speed limit or above, why
does
anyone not in a life-and-death emergency situation *need* to pass?


This is a four lane divided highway--two lanes in each direction. And, I
ask the same question.


or, this is the
lane where if the majority of drivers wants to go a little faster than
the
flow of traffic, they do it there! There's more validations, but that's
the
gist of it...!!

And they take the risk of being fined, or worse.


Well, myself included, one does not think of these things (tickets)
happening when one is breaking the speed limit.


Note that I let you know that I am already speeding, as it is. Up to
about
15 MPH over the posted speed.

Right.

So you have justified such speeding to yourself, even though it violates
the
law. The person behind you who wants to go 20-25 MPH over the limit has
almost certainly justified their behavior to him/herself, even though it
also
violates the law.


Exactly, but if I happened upon someone who's already breaking the speek
limit, I am not going to act like an idiot behind them--expecting them to
get out of my way.


I go on the "Duel" philosophy (from the old TV movie by Speilberg): I'd
rather
have a nutcase driver in front of me, where I can watch him/her, than
behind
me. I've actually pulled over and let 'em go by rather than have them
follow me.

Know what happens here? If one is cautiously staying behind a fruitcake
driver, all the hurry-up-and-get-me-knowwhere nitiwits start passing like
they are the charging brigade--never taking just a moment to see what
they
are pulling up on (a very dangerous situation with a driver ahead way too
close to the vehicle in front of them) or someone who's been doing a bit
of
weaving; or whatever. So, depending upon the situation, letting this
person
stay in front instead of taking the first opportunity to get around them,
can be more hazardous.

I disagree. I simply pull over and let the whacko get farther ahead.
Miles, if
necessary. At 60 MPH, one minute of delay buys me a mile of space. I can
spare
that minute.


Your patience serves you well.


I haven't encountered that yet. Must be a Texas thing...

Wow. Really?

Honest. Stores here mostly have express lanes (10 items or less) - some
have
two or even three levels of express (8 items or less, 15 items or less,
etc.).
And they enforce the item count.


OH...well, they have those here, too. WHEN they are open...grin


Used to do that, too. No more. It's my turn dammit and they can
wait.
Now, don't get me wrong: if I happen to turn to one side or the other
and
I
notice someone patiently waiting their turn, I let them go ahead. But
these
creeps who think that they are entitled to getting around just because
th
ey
are far more important than anyone else...nope, not doin' it any more.
And,
depending upon how showy they are about how important they are is how
slow I
am to slowly unload my cart, slowly find my checkbook, confirm the
price
however many times it needs confirming, very carefully write my check,
etc.

Passive aggressive behavior, IOW.


Yep, 'zackly.


And, while my behavior is not "forgiveable," I am no where
as nasty as these folks are being.

Isn't that an entirely subjective judgement?

73 de Jim, N2EY



Yep. And it's mine...(grin)

Kim W5TIT

"Kim" wrote in message ...
"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Kim "

writes:

Hmmm, not only no, but hell no. I can be treaded on all "they" want.
I've declared war on the road, tell ya that. I travel a good number
of
miles
to work.

By your own choice.


Didn't make the point because I don't like the drive. I made the point to
illustrate that I have a lot of exposure to the topic I was going to post
about.

OK, fine.

I'm making the point that you have a long commute because of where you
*choose* to live.

What lane are you in when they do this?

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the
"break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people doing
just that.

But you're already speeding, Kim. And not by an amount that can be
explained by the usual inaccuraccies and imperfections of speedometers.

Yet your getting ticked off because someone wants to go even faster.


Nope. Not at all. I am ticked because they think I should move for them.

Why shouldn't you move?

If it's OK for you to go 15 mph above the limit, why isn't it OK for
them to go 20 mph above the limit? By refusing to move, you're
enforcing your own personal judgement on what the speed limit should
be.

Suppose you're sailing along on your 60 mph 4-lane-divided (2 lanes
each way) road and you come across two (non police) cars side-by-side
going exactly the speed limit.

What would you do? Would their behavior bother you?

I am already going faster than the posted speed is my point. Why should
someone expect me to move if I am already going faster than I should be?

Because you're preventing them from going as fast as *they* want, even
though you're going as fast as *you* want.

The argument is along the lines that this is the lane where, if
someone needs to pass, speeding is legal to get around them;

Ah - but why does someone *need* to pass?

That's the proverbial 60 million dollar question--and yes, why does someone
*need* to pass someone else who's already speeding?

Why does anyone *need* to speed in a nonemergency situation? How much
time does going 70-75 save vs. 60 on that same road?

As Dee points out, on a two-lane, two direction road, it may be necessary
to
go fast to get out of a tough passing situation. But on a multilane
divided
highway where traffic is already zooming at the speed limit or above, why
does
anyone not in a life-and-death emergency situation *need* to pass?


This is a four lane divided highway--two lanes in each direction. And, I
ask the same question.

See above.

or, this is the
lane where if the majority of drivers wants to go a little faster than
the
flow of traffic, they do it there! There's more validations, but that's
the
gist of it...!!

And they take the risk of being fined, or worse.


Well, myself included, one does not think of these things (tickets)
happening when one is breaking the speed limit.

I think about 'em all the time. Not just the fine but the points.

Note that I let you know that I am already speeding, as it is. Up to
about
15 MPH over the posted speed.

Right.

So you have justified such speeding to yourself, even though it violates
the
law. The person behind you who wants to go 20-25 MPH over the limit has
almost certainly justified their behavior to him/herself, even though it
also
violates the law.


Exactly, but if I happened upon someone who's already breaking the speek
limit, I am not going to act like an idiot behind them--expecting them to
get out of my way.

What if they're going the speed limit?

Why is it OK for you to go 15 over but not OK for someone else to go
20 over?


I go on the "Duel" philosophy (from the old TV movie by Speilberg): I'd
rather
have a nutcase driver in front of me, where I can watch him/her, than
behind
me. I've actually pulled over and let 'em go by rather than have them
follow me.

Know what happens here? If one is cautiously staying behind a fruitcake
driver, all the hurry-up-and-get-me-knowwhere nitiwits start passing like
they are the charging brigade--never taking just a moment to see what
they
are pulling up on (a very dangerous situation with a driver ahead way too
close to the vehicle in front of them) or someone who's been doing a bit
of
weaving; or whatever. So, depending upon the situation, letting this
person
stay in front instead of taking the first opportunity to get around them,
can be more hazardous.

I disagree. I simply pull over and let the whacko get farther ahead.
Miles, if
necessary. At 60 MPH, one minute of delay buys me a mile of space. I can
spare
that minute.


Your patience serves you well.

I've seen too many accidents where it could have been me.

I haven't encountered that yet. Must be a Texas thing...

Wow. Really?

Honest. Stores here mostly have express lanes (10 items or less) - some
have
two or even three levels of express (8 items or less, 15 items or less,
etc.).
And they enforce the item count.

OH...well, they have those here, too. WHEN they are open...grin

They're always open when a store is busy here. They don't want
customers waiting. The managers know that if the Acme (pronounced
"Ack-ah-me") gets a rep for lines, folks will go to Genuardi's. Etc.

Used to do that, too. No more. It's my turn dammit and they can
wait.
Now, don't get me wrong: if I happen to turn to one side or the other
and
I
notice someone patiently waiting their turn, I let them go ahead. But
these
creeps who think that they are entitled to getting around just because
th
ey
are far more important than anyone else...nope, not doin' it any more.
And,
depending upon how showy they are about how important they are is how
slow I
am to slowly unload my cart, slowly find my checkbook, confirm the
price
however many times it needs confirming, very carefully write my check,
etc.

Passive aggressive behavior, IOW.


Yep, 'zackly.

Well, there you have it.

And, while my behavior is not "forgiveable," I am no where
as nasty as these folks are being.

Isn't that an entirely subjective judgement?

Yep. And it's mine...(grin)

HAW!

I do believe some of all this is regional, however.

And I've done a few tricks myself....

Way back in the late '80s, I had reason to go back and forth between
Philly and Washington, DC about every other weekend. I noticed that
the aggressiveness of drivers increased in direct proportion to
proximity to the nation's capital.

The worst part of the run was the BWP (Baltimore Washington Parkway),
a no-trucks 4 lane road with trees on both sides, and also between the
northbound and southbound lanes. Lots of traffic on a Friday night,
and as one approached The District the cars got more expensive and the
drivers more aggressive.

Back then the limit was 55 and traffic tended to stay below about 59
because enforcement was pretty good, and there were lots of places for
the troopers to hide in the trees, around curves, etc. The troopers
would not go after anyone below about 62 because speedometers and
radar are not 100% accurate. Above that they were ruthless, and above
65 the fines went up and up and up...

I got to know their whereabouts pretty good by observing where others
got tickets. (I was *never* stopped, in part because my 1980 Rabbit
Diesel looked like it couldn't even go the speed limit anyway). Radar
detectors were illegal in MD back then, too, and they'd do things like
set up a radar gun on an overpass and watch whose brake lights came on
for no reason....

One night I'm sailing down the BWP in the *right* lane, and up behind
me comes a new Saab (Saabs were the hot car back then among the
yuppie-but-no-Beemer crowd). Dude flashes his brights at me - he wants
*me* to get in the *left* lane so he can pass without having to change
lanes!

So I ease up on the throttle and slow down to 53...52....51....

He gets ticked and crawls up but now I'm down to 50...49...

Flashes the brights, gets ticked, and I keep easing up....

Finally he gets ticked and goes into the left lane. Whereupon I start
speeding up again...52...55...58...62...

He pulls alongside and now is really steamed because it is taking far
more effort to get past me than he expected. So he drops down a gear
and stomps it and goes off in a cloud of dust, over the next rise and
around the curve.....

and I bring it back down to the limit...

and I wave as I go by him, because he's now stopped by a trooper for
going WAY over the limit.....

I wouldn't play games like that today, though...

73 de Jim, N2EY

"N2EY" wrote in message
om...
"Kim" wrote in message
...

The far left--the "fast" lane as it is called. Funny thing is, if
you
mention to people at the office or wherever, that it doesn't mean the
"break
the speed limit lane," you ought to hear the validations for people
doing
just that.

But you're already speeding, Kim. And not by an amount that can be
explained by the usual inaccuraccies and imperfections of
speedometers.

Yet your getting ticked off because someone wants to go even faster.


Nope. Not at all. I am ticked because they think I should move for
them.

Why shouldn't you move?

If it's OK for you to go 15 mph above the limit, why isn't it OK for
them to go 20 mph above the limit? By refusing to move, you're
enforcing your own personal judgement on what the speed limit should
be.


It's fine for them to go 20 mph above the speed limit. It's fine if they
want to go 30-40 mph above the speed limit. But, they won't find me moving
out of their way; they'll have to go around because I am not moving into a
lane where I have to slow down, or even get "stuck" there for a while, if
there happens to be more than one vehicle that wants to go past.

This is an "every morning" thing. If they want to get to where they are
going quicker, then they need to adjust their scheduling, not make others on
the road cater to their needs. I would not think of being obnoxious because
I have to get somewhere quicker than anyone else--I would make the decision
to get on the road earlier.


Suppose you're sailing along on your 60 mph 4-lane-divided (2 lanes
each way) road and you come across two (non police) cars side-by-side
going exactly the speed limit.

What would you do? Would their behavior bother you?


Yes, their behavior would bother me--*but* they're the cops...and they have
that latitude. What would I do? I'd follow along, in the left hand lane.
The fun part would be when someone angrily pulls out to the right and would
be jumping up alongside to go around before they'd notice that they were
acting like that with cops right there. GRIN


I am already going faster than the posted speed is my point. Why should
someone expect me to move if I am already going faster than I should be?

Because you're preventing them from going as fast as *they* want, even
though you're going as fast as *you* want.


Then they should have gotten out earlier than me. It's the same principle
as someone who's standing in the "fast" lane (misnomer most of the
time--GRIN) at the grocery store and I am ahead of them with 10 items and
they only have one or two. If they're prone to it, they'll tap their foot;
sigh real loud, etc. Practically fall over trying to get me to notice that
they only have "just this little bit." And, how dare I *not* yield to them
and let them go ahead...and the next with one or two...and the next, etc.
Hey, next time, get there before me.


Why does anyone *need* to speed in a nonemergency situation? How much
time does going 70-75 save vs. 60 on that same road?


Actually, none...and I learned that in Driver's Education in High School.
It was proven out a few times, too. I don't know if I am really speeding
because of having to get somewhere quicker--in fact in the mornings that
would be probably not. I leave 45 min. ahead of time most of the time, to
get to a 20-25 min. destination. I leave early enough to account for
traffic also. And, I am very fortunate to have a job that doesn't make me
punch the timeclock.

In my case, my 70-75 mph (more near 70 most of the time) is probably more
due to the fact that, that is where my foot lands on the gas pedal. And, it
is the predominant flow of traffic...70-75, with the exception of those
obnoxious folks we're discussing here.


Well, myself included, one does not think of these things (tickets)
happening when one is breaking the speed limit.

I think about 'em all the time. Not just the fine but the points.


I should probably count my blessings here, because this will jinx me. I've
been stopped three times in my driving "career." Little enough that I still
don't "know the routine" when I do get stopped. Only once I've been
ticketed and that was for taking a turn onto a street that doesn't allow
those turns at the time of morning I was doing it.



Exactly, but if I happened upon someone who's already breaking the speek
limit, I am not going to act like an idiot behind them--expecting them
to
get out of my way.

What if they're going the speed limit?

Why is it OK for you to go 15 over but not OK for someone else to go
20 over?


If they are going the speed limit where I am at (in the left lane), I'd
still calmly make the move to the right lane and go around them--when it was
safe to--and wouldn't act like an idiot to them. It is not any more "right"
for me to speed than the next person--it's just that they'd better decide to
go around, because I will not be moving for them just because they are going
to act like an idiot. I will move if I decide to...and I usually don't.
But it's just as OK for them to be speeding as me...I don't care. You seem
to be stuck on the idea that I think they are wrong to speed faster than I
speed. No. We're all just as wrong as each other for speeding, no matter
how fast. But, I don't like their "I gotta get there faster than you gotta
get there" attitude. And, since I am the one in the lead at that
point--well, then, my attitude is the one that's important GRIN.


And, while my behavior is not "forgiveable," I am no where
as nasty as these folks are being.

Isn't that an entirely subjective judgement?

Yep. And it's mine...(grin)

HAW!

I do believe some of all this is regional, however.

And I've done a few tricks myself....

Way back in the late '80s, I had reason to go back and forth between
Philly and Washington, DC about every other weekend. I noticed that
the aggressiveness of drivers increased in direct proportion to
proximity to the nation's capital.

The worst part of the run was the BWP (Baltimore Washington Parkway),
a no-trucks 4 lane road with trees on both sides, and also between the
northbound and southbound lanes. Lots of traffic on a Friday night,
and as one approached The District the cars got more expensive and the
drivers more aggressive.


Heh, heh...funny you should mention that.


Back then the limit was 55 and traffic tended to stay below about 59
because enforcement was pretty good, and there were lots of places for
the troopers to hide in the trees, around curves, etc. The troopers
would not go after anyone below about 62 because speedometers and
radar are not 100% accurate. Above that they were ruthless, and above
65 the fines went up and up and up...

I got to know their whereabouts pretty good by observing where others
got tickets. (I was *never* stopped, in part because my 1980 Rabbit
Diesel looked like it couldn't even go the speed limit anyway). Radar
detectors were illegal in MD back then, too, and they'd do things like
set up a radar gun on an overpass and watch whose brake lights came on
for no reason....

One night I'm sailing down the BWP in the *right* lane, and up behind
me comes a new Saab (Saabs were the hot car back then among the
yuppie-but-no-Beemer crowd). Dude flashes his brights at me - he wants
*me* to get in the *left* lane so he can pass without having to change
lanes!

So I ease up on the throttle and slow down to 53...52....51....

He gets ticked and crawls up but now I'm down to 50...49...

Flashes the brights, gets ticked, and I keep easing up....

Finally he gets ticked and goes into the left lane. Whereupon I start
speeding up again...52...55...58...62...

He pulls alongside and now is really steamed because it is taking far
more effort to get past me than he expected. So he drops down a gear
and stomps it and goes off in a cloud of dust, over the next rise and
around the curve.....

and I bring it back down to the limit...

and I wave as I go by him, because he's now stopped by a trooper for
going WAY over the limit.....

I wouldn't play games like that today, though...

73 de Jim, N2EY


Yeah, that was what I did a few...OK, more than a few...years ago. I'd
always do just that, as a matter of fact. BUT, one day, this guy began
throwing things out his window at me when I did finally move over and let
him go passed me! Scared the heck outta me...he was throwing anything loose
in his car, bottle caps, cracker jack box, etc. Thank goodness he didn't
come across the bottle! That's another reason I'm not so sure about letting
creepy people get ahead of me...it may be me having to come upon them once
again...

Kim W5TIT